[Nfbmo] What would you do?

Dewey Bradley dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com
Thu Oct 27 04:39:38 UTC 2011


I had a guy at the bus stop the other day telling someone that if he were 
blind he would kill him self, but that is just me being angry I guess.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <DanFlasar at aol.com>
To: <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?


> There are always a few fringey people in every  group.  Generally, it's 
> not
> good to elect, appoint or anoint them, much  less generalize from their
> poor behavior to the rest of the group.
>     And anyone who would pray for you to get your  sight back and call you
> evil if you don't needs to pray to lift the arrogance  from their soul.
> Dan
>
>
>
> In a message dated 10/26/2011 5:51:12 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> mdsmith25 at ktis.net writes:
>
> I've run  across a few people who believe that if I just pray enough my
> blindness  will be cured, but none that thought my blindness was caused
> because I was  evil.
>
> Melissa Smith
>
> On 10/26/2011 5:02 PM, Gail Bryant  wrote:
>> Personally, I go to a wonderful church which has supported me  in every
> way
>> possible. When I've had surgery, the helped me with meals  and whatever I
>> needed.  When Ed died, they prayed with me, cried  with me, laughed with
> me
>> and more.   Never have they called  me evil. I don't know where Mr.
> Bradley
>> gets his figures, but perhaps  the reason he chooses not to go to church
> is
>> out of anger and  bitterness
>>
>> Gail Bryant
>> Columbia Braille Teaching  Services L.L.C.
>> 1212 London Drive
>> Columbia, MO  65203-2012
>> Phone: (573)817-5993
>> Cell: (573)268-4962
>>  gbryant at socket.net
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>  From: nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
>> Of Debbie Wunder
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 2:05  PM
>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What  would you do?
>>
>> You are being ridiculous! Where do you get your  facts?
>> This trivia night issue has nothing to do with god, or opinions  of the
>> blind.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From:  "Dewey Bradley"<dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com>
>> To: "NFB of Missouri  Mailing List"<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26,  2011 9:39 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you  do?
>>
>>
>>> I wasn't going to reply to this, but I have to  say this
>>> its been my experience that churches and church groups do  this, they do
>>> not want anyone with a disability around, they just  want to tell us 
>>> that
>>> if we pray harder we will have are sight  back, and that we are evil,
> that
>>> is why we are blind.
>>>  They say that 95% of us don't go to church, I don't know if the 
>>> numbers
>>> are that high, but this is why.
>>> Most people  that go to church and call them selves Christians are
>>> judgmental  like that.
>>> I'm not saying don't go to church, nor am I trying to  get a lintch mob
>>> after me, I'm just saying that is what I've  noticed, that is why I 
>>> never
>>> go, every church I have seen do not  want blind people around.
>>> I'm not saying that is the case here,  but it could be
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message  -----
>>> From: "MATTHEW  SIEVERT"<msievert at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "NFB of Missouri  Mailing List"<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26,  2011 7:33 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you  do?
>>>
>>>
>>> Group,
>>>
>>> I hope  you are all well.
>>>
>>> What I have observed is that many  times people will want to "rebel"
>>> instead of
>>> remedy a  situation through other means.
>>>
>>> Equality for all will  not take place over a period of one year or even
> ten
>>> years, but  you can lay the foundation that other's can build  upon.
>>>
>>> Representing a group in a negative light will  not win over supporters.
> It
>>> will
>>> bring attention to  the issue, but you want people understand, not 
>>> simply
>>>  notice
>>> through a negative act.
>>>
>>> Some day we  will have a blind/visually impaired astronaut. Until that
> time
>>> we  as
>>> the NFB should do what we can to build upon our  organization's
>>> achievements and
>>> represent our disabled  community in a positive light.
>>>
>>>
>>> Equality at  trivia night's should be obtained, but like all challenges,
> it
>>>  will
>>> take time and a calm intellect.
>>>
>>> Matt  Sievert
>>>
>>>
>>>  ________________________________
>>> From: fred  olver<goodfolks at charter.net>
>>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing  List<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wed, October 26, 2011 7:41:12  AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>
>>>  Gary,
>>>
>>> I have read your comments several times and  perhapse even lost some
> sleep
>>> over what I consider to be an  afrontery to me and others who might wish
> to
>>> participate in an  activity alongside individuals who are not limited in
>>> their  vision.
>>>
>>> Let me say first of all that a year ago I  confronted this situation and
>>> explained to the individuals in  charge that I felt wronged because half
> of
>>> the questions were  undeciferable by myself. Okay, they didn't know I 
>>> was
>>> going to be  there. This year, however nearly a third of the questions
> were
>>>  again undeciferable by a blind person. It is my feeling that if the
> folks
>>> in
>>> charge know that individuals will be  participating who are unable to
>>> participate in a significant  number of questions related to the 
>>> activity
>>> that they not allow  those questions. To me, the reasons ought to be 
>>> very
>>> obvious. If  you alienate a significant number of individuals you won't
> get
>>>  them to come back next year. If you knowingly allow questions to be a
> part
>>> of an activity which you know will exclude individuals from
> participating
>>> then you are wrong to include them. If for example I  only provide
> agenda's
>>> in Braille to individuals who don't read  Braille then I am wrong to do
> so,
>>> because I have ignored their  needs.
>>>
>>> Bottom line, I'm feeling ignored. Next year, I  think I'll find seven
> other
>>> individuals who can not make use of  visual questions and attend the 
>>> same
>>> fundraiser and practice a bit  of civil disobedience.
>>>
>>>
>>> Fred  Olver
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Gary  Wunder"<GWunder at earthlink.net>
>>> To: "'NFB of Missouri Mailing  List'"<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011  5:53 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you  do?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Fred and the folks who have  commented here. Please allow me to
>>>> interject
>>>>  another perspective. I find this troublesome philosophically. When I
> can
>>>> have access and am denied it because someone doesn't want  to go to the
>>>> trouble of making their software accessible, I'm  up in arms. When they
>>>> use
>>>> artificial barriers  such as possessing a driver's license when what
> they
>>>> mean is  that an employee has to get around, I'm bothered. When they
> say  I
>>>> have to be able to visually read print to take a job and I  have a
> machine
>>>> to
>>>> do it, I'm  outraged.
>>>>
>>>> How is the issue changed when we  know of no way to make a process 100
>>>> percent accessible? I  don't want to deprive anyone of the beauty found
> in
>>>> paintings  or photography simply because I can't observe them. I
>>>>  understand
>>>> there are some cartoons that are so torturous to  explain that by the
> time
>>>> one finishes putting them into words,  they are no longer funny.
>>>>
>>>> Mental challenges  may be audible, visual, or they might even involve
>>>>  other
>>>> senses such as taste or smell. If we look hard enough,  we'll find
> people
>>>> who
>>>> have problems with one  or more of these. So, in the areas where we
> don't
>>>> have true  alternatives, should our request be that the thing we cannot
> do
>>>> be
>>>> stricken from the activity? Would we  have been wrong to run a clip of
>>>> Henry
>>>>  Kissinger saying "Piece is at hand," and asking the group to identify
> the
>>>> man or what he was talking about or the year when he made  the
> utterance?
>>>> The
>>>> blind are at something of a  disadvantage because we cannot see him. 
>>>> The
>>>>  deaf
>>>> are at a disadvantage because they cannot hear him. The  young may well
> be
>>>> at
>>>> a disadvantage because  they weren't around when he made headlines with
>>>>  that
>>>> statement, much to the displeasure of his boss, the  president of the
>>>> United
>>>> States. Take the same  question, put it in print, and then decide if it
> is
>>>> fair to  the dyslexic who might have an easy time with the audio or the
>>>>  video
>>>> clip.
>>>>
>>>> I Don't like being  excluded, and if I am excluded enough, I'll find
>>>>  another
>>>> activity. It hurts and seems unfair, but to me it  doesn't rise to the
>>>> level
>>>> of discrimination  which, if I understand it, means something which is
>>>>  both
>>>> unreasonable and detrimental. I don't think we can be  critical of
> people
>>>> using sight and acknowledging that it plays  a major role in the way
> they
>>>> find and even remember things.  What we can and should make an
> unequivocal
>>>> stand for are  things which have nonvisual alternatives but which are
>>>>  ignored
>>>> to the detriment of our education and  employment.
>>>>
>>>> I do not mean this as a real  answer to the question of what should I
> do,
>>>>  but
>>>> as a thought process we go through when trying to decide  when to fight
>>>> and
>>>> what we can reasonably fight  for as blind people. I am not targeting
> Fred
>>>> here but trying  to engage in some discussion of a philosophical
> principle
>>>> that  I wrestle with at least two or three times per month. I
> appreciate
>>>> the
>>>> question, even if I don't have  anything like a good answer.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org  [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of  fred olver
>>>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 8:45  AM
>>>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
>>>> Subject:  [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>
>>>> A year ago, I  attended a Trivia Night put on by a food pantry in the
> St.
>>>>  Louis area. This pantry is supported by my church along with  several
>>>> others.
>>>> After the night's program was  over, half of the categories being 
>>>> visual
>>>> in
>>>>  nature so that a blind person could not participate in that portion 
>>>> of
>>>> the
>>>> program I wrote an item for my churches  news-letter and sent it on to
> the
>>>> director of the  organization. In this item I pointed out that it was
> not
>>>> fair  or necessary to include only video-type questions and asked  that
>>>> they
>>>> do, in the future consider having  categories which were non-video in
> the
>>>> future. I received  assurances from the director of the organization
> that
>>>> indeed  they would do this.
>>>>
>>>> Last Friday, I attended  their Trivia Nighht again. True, only two
>>>>  categories
>>>> of questions were video in nature, however these  two categories
> included
>>>> roughly 1/3 of the questions.  Yesterday at a meeting of a church
>>>> committee
>>>>  I
>>>> suggested that they with-hold two weeks worth of donations  and that
> these
>>>> donations go to another organization as a  protest, the rest of the
>>>> committee
>>>> said no to  this idea, sighting the possibility that a family might 
>>>> have
>>>>  to
>>>> do without this food, I personally doubt it, and figure  they're just 
>>>> to
>>>> comfortable in their place and don't wish to  because it doesn't affect
>>>> them,
>>>> so what would  you do if you were in my place? This really upsets me,
>>>>  especially since I had spoken to this organization a year ago and 
>>>> they
>>>> had
>>>> more or less agreed that this was not  a good thing to have happen.
>>>>
>>>> Fred  Olver
>>>> http://www.dealingwithvisionloss.com For some of us it's  a way of life
>>>> and
>>>> for some of us it just makes  life easier. Fred Olver
>>>>  _______________________________________________
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