[Nfbmo] What would you do?
Dewey Bradley
dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com
Thu Oct 27 05:35:44 UTC 2011
Well he didn't think I heard him, he was an older guy, so something has up
set him I guess, who knows, but if you read the other posts from this list,
I'm the only one who has ever gotten that, I'm angry
But I don't bother with people like that, its a waste of my time
----- Original Message -----
From: <DanFlasar at aol.com>
To: <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
> Dewey,
> Sounds like that guy at the bus stop felt inferior in the presence of
> someone he felt had a lot more courage than he does.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> In a message dated 10/26/2011 11:37:02 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com writes:
>
> I had a guy at the bus stop the other day telling someone that if he were
> blind he would kill him self, but that is just me being angry I guess.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <DanFlasar at aol.com>
> To: <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 7:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>
>
>> There are always a few fringey people in every group. Generally, it's
>> not
>> good to elect, appoint or anoint them, much less generalize from their
>> poor behavior to the rest of the group.
>> And anyone who would pray for you to get your sight back and call you
>> evil if you don't needs to pray to lift the arrogance from their soul.
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 10/26/2011 5:51:12 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
>> mdsmith25 at ktis.net writes:
>>
>> I've run across a few people who believe that if I just pray enough my
>> blindness will be cured, but none that thought my blindness was caused
>> because I was evil.
>>
>> Melissa Smith
>>
>> On 10/26/2011 5:02 PM, Gail Bryant wrote:
>>> Personally, I go to a wonderful church which has supported me in every
>> way
>>> possible. When I've had surgery, the helped me with meals and whatever
> I
>>> needed. When Ed died, they prayed with me, cried with me, laughed
>>> with
>> me
>>> and more. Never have they called me evil. I don't know where Mr.
>> Bradley
>>> gets his figures, but perhaps the reason he chooses not to go to
> church
>> is
>>> out of anger and bitterness
>>>
>>> Gail Bryant
>>> Columbia Braille Teaching Services L.L.C.
>>> 1212 London Drive
>>> Columbia, MO 65203-2012
>>> Phone: (573)817-5993
>>> Cell: (573)268-4962
>>> gbryant at socket.net
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>>> Of Debbie Wunder
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 2:05 PM
>>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>
>>> You are being ridiculous! Where do you get your facts?
>>> This trivia night issue has nothing to do with god, or opinions of the
>>> blind.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Dewey Bradley"<dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com>
>>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List"<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 9:39 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>
>>>
>>>> I wasn't going to reply to this, but I have to say this
>>>> its been my experience that churches and church groups do this, they
> do
>>>> not want anyone with a disability around, they just want to tell us
>>>> that
>>>> if we pray harder we will have are sight back, and that we are evil,
>> that
>>>> is why we are blind.
>>>> They say that 95% of us don't go to church, I don't know if the
>>>> numbers
>>>> are that high, but this is why.
>>>> Most people that go to church and call them selves Christians are
>>>> judgmental like that.
>>>> I'm not saying don't go to church, nor am I trying to get a lintch
>>>> mob
>>>> after me, I'm just saying that is what I've noticed, that is why I
>>>> never
>>>> go, every church I have seen do not want blind people around.
>>>> I'm not saying that is the case here, but it could be
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "MATTHEW SIEVERT"<msievert at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List"<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 7:33 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Group,
>>>>
>>>> I hope you are all well.
>>>>
>>>> What I have observed is that many times people will want to "rebel"
>>>> instead of
>>>> remedy a situation through other means.
>>>>
>>>> Equality for all will not take place over a period of one year or
> even
>> ten
>>>> years, but you can lay the foundation that other's can build upon.
>>>>
>>>> Representing a group in a negative light will not win over
> supporters.
>> It
>>>> will
>>>> bring attention to the issue, but you want people understand, not
>>>> simply
>>>> notice
>>>> through a negative act.
>>>>
>>>> Some day we will have a blind/visually impaired astronaut. Until that
>> time
>>>> we as
>>>> the NFB should do what we can to build upon our organization's
>>>> achievements and
>>>> represent our disabled community in a positive light.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Equality at trivia night's should be obtained, but like all
> challenges,
>> it
>>>> will
>>>> take time and a calm intellect.
>>>>
>>>> Matt Sievert
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: fred olver<goodfolks at charter.net>
>>>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wed, October 26, 2011 7:41:12 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>
>>>> Gary,
>>>>
>>>> I have read your comments several times and perhapse even lost some
>> sleep
>>>> over what I consider to be an afrontery to me and others who might
> wish
>> to
>>>> participate in an activity alongside individuals who are not limited
> in
>>>> their vision.
>>>>
>>>> Let me say first of all that a year ago I confronted this situation
> and
>>>> explained to the individuals in charge that I felt wronged because
> half
>> of
>>>> the questions were undeciferable by myself. Okay, they didn't know I
>>>> was
>>>> going to be there. This year, however nearly a third of the questions
>> were
>>>> again undeciferable by a blind person. It is my feeling that if the
>> folks
>>>> in
>>>> charge know that individuals will be participating who are unable to
>>>> participate in a significant number of questions related to the
>>>> activity
>>>> that they not allow those questions. To me, the reasons ought to be
>>>> very
>>>> obvious. If you alienate a significant number of individuals you
>>>> won't
>> get
>>>> them to come back next year. If you knowingly allow questions to be a
>> part
>>>> of an activity which you know will exclude individuals from
>> participating
>>>> then you are wrong to include them. If for example I only provide
>> agenda's
>>>> in Braille to individuals who don't read Braille then I am wrong to
>>>> do
>> so,
>>>> because I have ignored their needs.
>>>>
>>>> Bottom line, I'm feeling ignored. Next year, I think I'll find seven
>> other
>>>> individuals who can not make use of visual questions and attend the
>>>> same
>>>> fundraiser and practice a bit of civil disobedience.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fred Olver
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Gary Wunder"<GWunder at earthlink.net>
>>>> To: "'NFB of Missouri Mailing List'"<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 5:53 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Fred and the folks who have commented here. Please allow me to
>>>>> interject
>>>>> another perspective. I find this troublesome philosophically. When I
>> can
>>>>> have access and am denied it because someone doesn't want to go to
> the
>>>>> trouble of making their software accessible, I'm up in arms. When
> they
>>>>> use
>>>>> artificial barriers such as possessing a driver's license when what
>> they
>>>>> mean is that an employee has to get around, I'm bothered. When they
>> say I
>>>>> have to be able to visually read print to take a job and I have a
>> machine
>>>>> to
>>>>> do it, I'm outraged.
>>>>>
>>>>> How is the issue changed when we know of no way to make a process
> 100
>>>>> percent accessible? I don't want to deprive anyone of the beauty
> found
>> in
>>>>> paintings or photography simply because I can't observe them. I
>>>>> understand
>>>>> there are some cartoons that are so torturous to explain that by the
>> time
>>>>> one finishes putting them into words, they are no longer funny.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mental challenges may be audible, visual, or they might even involve
>>>>> other
>>>>> senses such as taste or smell. If we look hard enough, we'll find
>> people
>>>>> who
>>>>> have problems with one or more of these. So, in the areas where we
>> don't
>>>>> have true alternatives, should our request be that the thing we
> cannot
>> do
>>>>> be
>>>>> stricken from the activity? Would we have been wrong to run a clip
>>>>> of
>>>>> Henry
>>>>> Kissinger saying "Piece is at hand," and asking the group to
>>>>> identify
>> the
>>>>> man or what he was talking about or the year when he made the
>> utterance?
>>>>> The
>>>>> blind are at something of a disadvantage because we cannot see him.
>>>>> The
>>>>> deaf
>>>>> are at a disadvantage because they cannot hear him. The young may
> well
>> be
>>>>> at
>>>>> a disadvantage because they weren't around when he made headlines
> with
>>>>> that
>>>>> statement, much to the displeasure of his boss, the president of the
>>>>> United
>>>>> States. Take the same question, put it in print, and then decide if
> it
>> is
>>>>> fair to the dyslexic who might have an easy time with the audio or
> the
>>>>> video
>>>>> clip.
>>>>>
>>>>> I Don't like being excluded, and if I am excluded enough, I'll find
>>>>> another
>>>>> activity. It hurts and seems unfair, but to me it doesn't rise to
>>>>> the
>>>>> level
>>>>> of discrimination which, if I understand it, means something which
>>>>> is
>>>>> both
>>>>> unreasonable and detrimental. I don't think we can be critical of
>> people
>>>>> using sight and acknowledging that it plays a major role in the way
>> they
>>>>> find and even remember things. What we can and should make an
>> unequivocal
>>>>> stand for are things which have nonvisual alternatives but which are
>>>>> ignored
>>>>> to the detriment of our education and employment.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not mean this as a real answer to the question of what should I
>> do,
>>>>> but
>>>>> as a thought process we go through when trying to decide when to
> fight
>>>>> and
>>>>> what we can reasonably fight for as blind people. I am not targeting
>> Fred
>>>>> here but trying to engage in some discussion of a philosophical
>> principle
>>>>> that I wrestle with at least two or three times per month. I
>> appreciate
>>>>> the
>>>>> question, even if I don't have anything like a good answer.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of fred olver
>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 8:45 AM
>>>>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>>
>>>>> A year ago, I attended a Trivia Night put on by a food pantry in the
>> St.
>>>>> Louis area. This pantry is supported by my church along with
>>>>> several
>>>>> others.
>>>>> After the night's program was over, half of the categories being
>>>>> visual
>>>>> in
>>>>> nature so that a blind person could not participate in that portion
>>>>> of
>>>>> the
>>>>> program I wrote an item for my churches news-letter and sent it on
>>>>> to
>> the
>>>>> director of the organization. In this item I pointed out that it was
>> not
>>>>> fair or necessary to include only video-type questions and asked
> that
>>>>> they
>>>>> do, in the future consider having categories which were non-video
>>>>> in
>> the
>>>>> future. I received assurances from the director of the organization
>> that
>>>>> indeed they would do this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Last Friday, I attended their Trivia Nighht again. True, only two
>>>>> categories
>>>>> of questions were video in nature, however these two categories
>> included
>>>>> roughly 1/3 of the questions. Yesterday at a meeting of a church
>>>>> committee
>>>>> I
>>>>> suggested that they with-hold two weeks worth of donations and that
>> these
>>>>> donations go to another organization as a protest, the rest of the
>>>>> committee
>>>>> said no to this idea, sighting the possibility that a family might
>>>>> have
>>>>> to
>>>>> do without this food, I personally doubt it, and figure they're just
>>>>> to
>>>>> comfortable in their place and don't wish to because it doesn't
> affect
>>>>> them,
>>>>> so what would you do if you were in my place? This really upsets
>>>>> me,
>>>>> especially since I had spoken to this organization a year ago and
>>>>> they
>>>>> had
>>>>> more or less agreed that this was not a good thing to have happen.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fred Olver
>>>>> http://www.dealingwithvisionloss.com For some of us it's a way of
> life
>>>>> and
>>>>> for some of us it just makes life easier. Fred Olver
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
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