[Nfbmo] What would you do?
DanFlasar at aol.com
DanFlasar at aol.com
Thu Oct 27 05:13:34 UTC 2011
Dewey,
Sounds like that guy at the bus stop felt inferior in the presence of
someone he felt had a lot more courage than he does.
Dan
In a message dated 10/26/2011 11:37:02 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com writes:
I had a guy at the bus stop the other day telling someone that if he were
blind he would kill him self, but that is just me being angry I guess.
----- Original Message -----
From: <DanFlasar at aol.com>
To: <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
> There are always a few fringey people in every group. Generally, it's
> not
> good to elect, appoint or anoint them, much less generalize from their
> poor behavior to the rest of the group.
> And anyone who would pray for you to get your sight back and call you
> evil if you don't needs to pray to lift the arrogance from their soul.
> Dan
>
>
>
> In a message dated 10/26/2011 5:51:12 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> mdsmith25 at ktis.net writes:
>
> I've run across a few people who believe that if I just pray enough my
> blindness will be cured, but none that thought my blindness was caused
> because I was evil.
>
> Melissa Smith
>
> On 10/26/2011 5:02 PM, Gail Bryant wrote:
>> Personally, I go to a wonderful church which has supported me in every
> way
>> possible. When I've had surgery, the helped me with meals and whatever
I
>> needed. When Ed died, they prayed with me, cried with me, laughed with
> me
>> and more. Never have they called me evil. I don't know where Mr.
> Bradley
>> gets his figures, but perhaps the reason he chooses not to go to
church
> is
>> out of anger and bitterness
>>
>> Gail Bryant
>> Columbia Braille Teaching Services L.L.C.
>> 1212 London Drive
>> Columbia, MO 65203-2012
>> Phone: (573)817-5993
>> Cell: (573)268-4962
>> gbryant at socket.net
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
>> Of Debbie Wunder
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 2:05 PM
>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>
>> You are being ridiculous! Where do you get your facts?
>> This trivia night issue has nothing to do with god, or opinions of the
>> blind.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Dewey Bradley"<dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com>
>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List"<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 9:39 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>
>>
>>> I wasn't going to reply to this, but I have to say this
>>> its been my experience that churches and church groups do this, they
do
>>> not want anyone with a disability around, they just want to tell us
>>> that
>>> if we pray harder we will have are sight back, and that we are evil,
> that
>>> is why we are blind.
>>> They say that 95% of us don't go to church, I don't know if the
>>> numbers
>>> are that high, but this is why.
>>> Most people that go to church and call them selves Christians are
>>> judgmental like that.
>>> I'm not saying don't go to church, nor am I trying to get a lintch mob
>>> after me, I'm just saying that is what I've noticed, that is why I
>>> never
>>> go, every church I have seen do not want blind people around.
>>> I'm not saying that is the case here, but it could be
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "MATTHEW SIEVERT"<msievert at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List"<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 7:33 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>
>>>
>>> Group,
>>>
>>> I hope you are all well.
>>>
>>> What I have observed is that many times people will want to "rebel"
>>> instead of
>>> remedy a situation through other means.
>>>
>>> Equality for all will not take place over a period of one year or
even
> ten
>>> years, but you can lay the foundation that other's can build upon.
>>>
>>> Representing a group in a negative light will not win over
supporters.
> It
>>> will
>>> bring attention to the issue, but you want people understand, not
>>> simply
>>> notice
>>> through a negative act.
>>>
>>> Some day we will have a blind/visually impaired astronaut. Until that
> time
>>> we as
>>> the NFB should do what we can to build upon our organization's
>>> achievements and
>>> represent our disabled community in a positive light.
>>>
>>>
>>> Equality at trivia night's should be obtained, but like all
challenges,
> it
>>> will
>>> take time and a calm intellect.
>>>
>>> Matt Sievert
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: fred olver<goodfolks at charter.net>
>>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wed, October 26, 2011 7:41:12 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>
>>> Gary,
>>>
>>> I have read your comments several times and perhapse even lost some
> sleep
>>> over what I consider to be an afrontery to me and others who might
wish
> to
>>> participate in an activity alongside individuals who are not limited
in
>>> their vision.
>>>
>>> Let me say first of all that a year ago I confronted this situation
and
>>> explained to the individuals in charge that I felt wronged because
half
> of
>>> the questions were undeciferable by myself. Okay, they didn't know I
>>> was
>>> going to be there. This year, however nearly a third of the questions
> were
>>> again undeciferable by a blind person. It is my feeling that if the
> folks
>>> in
>>> charge know that individuals will be participating who are unable to
>>> participate in a significant number of questions related to the
>>> activity
>>> that they not allow those questions. To me, the reasons ought to be
>>> very
>>> obvious. If you alienate a significant number of individuals you won't
> get
>>> them to come back next year. If you knowingly allow questions to be a
> part
>>> of an activity which you know will exclude individuals from
> participating
>>> then you are wrong to include them. If for example I only provide
> agenda's
>>> in Braille to individuals who don't read Braille then I am wrong to do
> so,
>>> because I have ignored their needs.
>>>
>>> Bottom line, I'm feeling ignored. Next year, I think I'll find seven
> other
>>> individuals who can not make use of visual questions and attend the
>>> same
>>> fundraiser and practice a bit of civil disobedience.
>>>
>>>
>>> Fred Olver
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Gary Wunder"<GWunder at earthlink.net>
>>> To: "'NFB of Missouri Mailing List'"<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 5:53 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Fred and the folks who have commented here. Please allow me to
>>>> interject
>>>> another perspective. I find this troublesome philosophically. When I
> can
>>>> have access and am denied it because someone doesn't want to go to
the
>>>> trouble of making their software accessible, I'm up in arms. When
they
>>>> use
>>>> artificial barriers such as possessing a driver's license when what
> they
>>>> mean is that an employee has to get around, I'm bothered. When they
> say I
>>>> have to be able to visually read print to take a job and I have a
> machine
>>>> to
>>>> do it, I'm outraged.
>>>>
>>>> How is the issue changed when we know of no way to make a process
100
>>>> percent accessible? I don't want to deprive anyone of the beauty
found
> in
>>>> paintings or photography simply because I can't observe them. I
>>>> understand
>>>> there are some cartoons that are so torturous to explain that by the
> time
>>>> one finishes putting them into words, they are no longer funny.
>>>>
>>>> Mental challenges may be audible, visual, or they might even involve
>>>> other
>>>> senses such as taste or smell. If we look hard enough, we'll find
> people
>>>> who
>>>> have problems with one or more of these. So, in the areas where we
> don't
>>>> have true alternatives, should our request be that the thing we
cannot
> do
>>>> be
>>>> stricken from the activity? Would we have been wrong to run a clip of
>>>> Henry
>>>> Kissinger saying "Piece is at hand," and asking the group to identify
> the
>>>> man or what he was talking about or the year when he made the
> utterance?
>>>> The
>>>> blind are at something of a disadvantage because we cannot see him.
>>>> The
>>>> deaf
>>>> are at a disadvantage because they cannot hear him. The young may
well
> be
>>>> at
>>>> a disadvantage because they weren't around when he made headlines
with
>>>> that
>>>> statement, much to the displeasure of his boss, the president of the
>>>> United
>>>> States. Take the same question, put it in print, and then decide if
it
> is
>>>> fair to the dyslexic who might have an easy time with the audio or
the
>>>> video
>>>> clip.
>>>>
>>>> I Don't like being excluded, and if I am excluded enough, I'll find
>>>> another
>>>> activity. It hurts and seems unfair, but to me it doesn't rise to the
>>>> level
>>>> of discrimination which, if I understand it, means something which is
>>>> both
>>>> unreasonable and detrimental. I don't think we can be critical of
> people
>>>> using sight and acknowledging that it plays a major role in the way
> they
>>>> find and even remember things. What we can and should make an
> unequivocal
>>>> stand for are things which have nonvisual alternatives but which are
>>>> ignored
>>>> to the detriment of our education and employment.
>>>>
>>>> I do not mean this as a real answer to the question of what should I
> do,
>>>> but
>>>> as a thought process we go through when trying to decide when to
fight
>>>> and
>>>> what we can reasonably fight for as blind people. I am not targeting
> Fred
>>>> here but trying to engage in some discussion of a philosophical
> principle
>>>> that I wrestle with at least two or three times per month. I
> appreciate
>>>> the
>>>> question, even if I don't have anything like a good answer.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of fred olver
>>>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 8:45 AM
>>>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
>>>> Subject: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>
>>>> A year ago, I attended a Trivia Night put on by a food pantry in the
> St.
>>>> Louis area. This pantry is supported by my church along with several
>>>> others.
>>>> After the night's program was over, half of the categories being
>>>> visual
>>>> in
>>>> nature so that a blind person could not participate in that portion
>>>> of
>>>> the
>>>> program I wrote an item for my churches news-letter and sent it on to
> the
>>>> director of the organization. In this item I pointed out that it was
> not
>>>> fair or necessary to include only video-type questions and asked
that
>>>> they
>>>> do, in the future consider having categories which were non-video in
> the
>>>> future. I received assurances from the director of the organization
> that
>>>> indeed they would do this.
>>>>
>>>> Last Friday, I attended their Trivia Nighht again. True, only two
>>>> categories
>>>> of questions were video in nature, however these two categories
> included
>>>> roughly 1/3 of the questions. Yesterday at a meeting of a church
>>>> committee
>>>> I
>>>> suggested that they with-hold two weeks worth of donations and that
> these
>>>> donations go to another organization as a protest, the rest of the
>>>> committee
>>>> said no to this idea, sighting the possibility that a family might
>>>> have
>>>> to
>>>> do without this food, I personally doubt it, and figure they're just
>>>> to
>>>> comfortable in their place and don't wish to because it doesn't
affect
>>>> them,
>>>> so what would you do if you were in my place? This really upsets me,
>>>> especially since I had spoken to this organization a year ago and
>>>> they
>>>> had
>>>> more or less agreed that this was not a good thing to have happen.
>>>>
>>>> Fred Olver
>>>> http://www.dealingwithvisionloss.com For some of us it's a way of
life
>>>> and
>>>> for some of us it just makes life easier. Fred Olver
>>>> _______________________________________________
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