[Nfbmo] What would you do?

DanFlasar at aol.com DanFlasar at aol.com
Thu Oct 27 05:47:52 UTC 2011


I agree - I have enough things to deal  with without having to address the 
neuroses of random people at bus stops or  waiting in line.
 
 
 
In a message dated 10/27/2011 12:32:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com writes:

Well he  didn't think I heard him, he was an older guy, so something has up 
set him  I guess, who knows, but if you read the other posts from this 
list, 
I'm  the only one who has ever gotten that, I'm angry
But I don't bother with  people like that, its a waste of my time

----- Original Message -----  
From: <DanFlasar at aol.com>
To: <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
Sent:  Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you  do?


> Dewey,
> Sounds like that guy at the bus stop felt  inferior in the presence of
> someone he felt had a lot more courage  than he does.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> In a message  dated 10/26/2011 11:37:02 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
>  dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com writes:
>
> I had a guy  at the bus  stop the other day telling someone that if he 
were
> blind he   would kill him self, but that is just me being angry I guess.
>
>  -----  Original Message ----- 
> From:  <DanFlasar at aol.com>
> To:  <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>  Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 7:27  PM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo]  What would you do?
>
>
>> There are always  a few  fringey people in every  group.  Generally, it's
>>   not
>> good to elect, appoint or anoint them, much  less  generalize  from their
>> poor behavior to the rest of the  group.
>>   And anyone who would pray for you to get  your  sight back  and call 
you
>> evil if you don't needs  to pray to lift the  arrogance  from their soul.
>>  Dan
>>
>>
>>
>>  In a message dated  10/26/2011 5:51:12 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
>>   mdsmith25 at ktis.net writes:
>>
>> I've run  across a few  people  who believe that if I just pray enough my
>>  blindness  will be  cured, but none that thought my blindness was  
caused
>> because I  was  evil.
>>
>>  Melissa Smith
>>
>> On 10/26/2011  5:02 PM, Gail  Bryant  wrote:
>>> Personally, I go to a wonderful   church which has supported me  in 
every
>> way
>>>  possible.  When I've had surgery, the helped me with meals  and  
whatever
> I
>>> needed.  When Ed died, they prayed  with me, cried   with me, laughed 
>>> with
>>  me
>>> and more.   Never have  they called  me  evil. I don't know where Mr.
>> Bradley
>>>  gets  his figures, but perhaps  the reason he chooses not to go to
>  church
>> is
>>> out of anger and    bitterness
>>>
>>> Gail Bryant
>>>  Columbia Braille  Teaching  Services L.L.C.
>>> 1212  London Drive
>>>  Columbia, MO   65203-2012
>>> Phone: (573)817-5993
>>>  Cell:  (573)268-4962
>>>    gbryant at socket.net
>>>
>>>
>>>  -----Original  Message-----
>>>  From:  nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org  [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org]  On
>> Behalf
>>> Of Debbie  Wunder
>>>  Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 2:05  PM
>>>  To: NFB  of Missouri Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What    would you do?
>>>
>>> You are being ridiculous! Where  do you  get your  facts?
>>> This trivia night issue has  nothing to do  with god, or opinions  of 
the
>>>  blind.
>>> -----  Original Message -----
>>>  From:  "Dewey   Bradley"<dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com>
>>> To: "NFB of  Missouri   Mailing List"<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>  Sent: Wednesday, October  26,  2011 9:39 AM
>>> Subject:  Re: [Nfbmo] What would you    do?
>>>
>>>
>>>> I wasn't going to  reply to this,  but I have to  say this
>>>> its been  my experience that  churches and church groups do  this,  
they
> do
>>>> not want  anyone with a disability  around, they just  want to tell us
>>>>  that
>>>> if we pray harder we will have are  sight   back, and that we are evil,
>> that
>>>> is why  we  are blind.
>>>>  They say that 95% of us don't go  to church, I  don't know if the
>>>>  numbers
>>>> are that high, but  this is  why.
>>>> Most people  that go to church and call  them  selves Christians are
>>>> judgmental   like  that.
>>>> I'm not saying don't go to church, nor am  I trying  to  get a lintch 
>>>>  mob
>>>> after me, I'm just saying that is  what  I've  noticed, that is why I
>>>>  never
>>>>  go, every church I have seen do not  want  blind people  around.
>>>> I'm not saying that is the case  here,  but it  could be
>>>>
>>>>  ----- Original Message   -----
>>>> From:  "MATTHEW    SIEVERT"<msievert at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> To: "NFB of   Missouri  Mailing List"<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>>  Sent:  Wednesday, October 26,  2011 7:33 AM
>>>>  Subject: Re: [Nfbmo]  What would you   do?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   Group,
>>>>
>>>> I hope  you are all   well.
>>>>
>>>> What I have observed is that  many   times people will want to "rebel"
>>>> instead  of
>>>>  remedy a  situation through other  means.
>>>>
>>>>  Equality for all  will  not take place over a period of one year or
>  even
>> ten
>>>> years, but  you can lay the  foundation  that other's can build   upon.
>>>>
>>>>  Representing a group in a  negative light will  not win over
> supporters.
>>  It
>>>> will
>>>> bring attention  to   the issue, but you want people understand, not
>>>>   simply
>>>>  notice
>>>> through a  negative  act.
>>>>
>>>> Some day we   will have a  blind/visually impaired astronaut. Until 
that
>>  time
>>>>  we  as
>>>> the NFB should  do what we can to build upon  our   organization's
>>>> achievements and
>>>>   represent our disabled  community in a positive   light.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Equality  at   trivia night's should be obtained, but like all
>  challenges,
>>  it
>>>>   will
>>>> take time and a calm   intellect.
>>>>
>>>> Matt    Sievert
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    ________________________________
>>>> From: fred    olver<goodfolks at charter.net>
>>>> To: NFB of  Missouri  Mailing  List<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>>  Sent: Wed, October  26, 2011 7:41:12  AM
>>>>  Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you   do?
>>>>
>>>>    Gary,
>>>>
>>>> I have read your comments  several times  and  perhapse even lost some
>>  sleep
>>>> over what I  consider to be an  afrontery  to me and others who might
> wish
>>   to
>>>> participate in an  activity alongside individuals  who  are not limited
> in
>>>> their    vision.
>>>>
>>>> Let me say first of all that a  year  ago I  confronted this situation
>  and
>>>> explained to the  individuals in  charge  that I felt wronged because
> half
>>   of
>>>> the questions were  undeciferable by myself.  Okay,  they didn't know I
>>>> was
>>>>  going to be   there. This year, however nearly a third of the  
questions
>>  were
>>>>  again undeciferable  by a blind person. It is my  feeling that if the
>>  folks
>>>> in
>>>> charge  know that  individuals will be  participating who are unable   
to
>>>> participate in a significant  number of  questions  related to the
>>>>  activity
>>>> that they not  allow  those questions.  To me, the reasons ought to be
>>>>   very
>>>> obvious. If  you alienate a significant number  of  individuals you 
>>>> won't
>>  get
>>>>  them to come back next  year. If you  knowingly allow questions to be 
a
>> part
>>>>  of  an activity which you know will exclude individuals  from
>>  participating
>>>> then you are wrong to  include them. If for  example I  only provide
>>  agenda's
>>>> in Braille to  individuals who don't  read  Braille then I am wrong to 
>>>>  do
>>  so,
>>>> because I have ignored  their   needs.
>>>>
>>>> Bottom line,  I'm feeling ignored. Next  year, I  think I'll find  
seven
>> other
>>>> individuals  who can not make  use of  visual questions and attend the
>>>>   same
>>>> fundraiser and practice a bit  of civil   disobedience.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Fred   Olver
>>>> ----- Original Message  -----
>>>> From:  "Gary   Wunder"<GWunder at earthlink.net>
>>>> To: "'NFB of   Missouri Mailing  List'"<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>>  Sent:  Tuesday, October 25, 2011  5:53 PM
>>>>  Subject: Re: [Nfbmo]  What would you   do?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>  Hi  Fred and the folks who have  commented here. Please allow me   to
>>>>> interject
>>>>>   another  perspective. I find this troublesome philosophically. When 
 I
>>  can
>>>>> have access and am denied it  because someone doesn't  want  to go to
>  the
>>>>> trouble of making their software  accessible,  I'm  up in arms. When
> they
>>>>>   use
>>>>> artificial barriers  such as possessing  a  driver's license when what
>> they
>>>>>  mean is  that  an employee has to get around, I'm bothered. When  
they
>> say   I
>>>>> have to be able to  visually read print to take a job and  I  have a
>>  machine
>>>>> to
>>>>> do  it,  I'm  outraged.
>>>>>
>>>>> How is  the  issue changed when we  know of no way to make a process
>  100
>>>>> percent accessible? I  don't want to  deprive  anyone of the beauty
> found
>>  in
>>>>> paintings  or  photography simply because  I can't observe them. I
>>>>>    understand
>>>>> there are some cartoons that are so  torturous  to  explain that by 
the
>>  time
>>>>> one finishes  putting them into words,   they are no longer   funny.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mental challenges   may be  audible, visual, or they might even  
involve
>>>>>   other
>>>>>  senses such as taste or smell. If we look hard  enough,  we'll  find
>> people
>>>>>   who
>>>>> have problems with one  or more of these. So,  in  the areas where we
>> don't
>>>>> have  true   alternatives, should our request be that the thing we
>  cannot
>>  do
>>>>> be
>>>>>  stricken from the activity?  Would we  have been wrong to run a clip 
 
>>>>> of
>>>>>   Henry
>>>>>  Kissinger saying "Piece is at hand,"  and  asking the group to 
>>>>> identify
>>  the
>>>>> man or what he  was talking about or the year  when he made  the
>>  utterance?
>>>>>  The
>>>>> blind are at something  of a   disadvantage because we cannot see him.
>>>>>   The
>>>>>  deaf
>>>>> are at a  disadvantage  because they cannot hear him. The  young may
>  well
>>  be
>>>>> at
>>>>> a  disadvantage because   they weren't around when he made  headlines
> with
>>>>>    that
>>>>> statement, much to the displeasure of his  boss,  the  president of 
the
>>>>>  United
>>>>>  States. Take the same  question, put  it in print, and then decide if
> it
>>  is
>>>>> fair to  the dyslexic who might have an   easy time with the audio or
> the
>>>>>    video
>>>>>  clip.
>>>>>
>>>>> I  Don't like  being  excluded, and if I am excluded enough, I'll   
find
>>>>>  another
>>>>> activity.  It hurts  and seems unfair, but to me it  doesn't rise to  
>>>>> the
>>>>>   level
>>>>> of discrimination  which, if I understand  it,  means something which 
>>>>>  is
>>>>>  both
>>>>>   unreasonable and detrimental. I don't think we can be  critical   of
>> people
>>>>> using sight and acknowledging  that it  plays  a major role in the way
>>  they
>>>>> find and  even remember things.  What  we can and should make an
>>   unequivocal
>>>>> stand for are  things which  have  nonvisual alternatives but which  
are
>>>>>   ignored
>>>>> to the  detriment of our education and    employment.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not mean this  as a  real  answer to the question of what should 
 I
>>  do,
>>>>>   but
>>>>> as a thought process we  go through when  trying to decide  when to
> fight
>>>>>   and
>>>>> what we can reasonably fight  for as  blind  people. I am not 
targeting
>>  Fred
>>>>> here but  trying  to engage in some  discussion of a philosophical
>>   principle
>>>>> that  I wrestle with at least two or  three  times per month. I
>>  appreciate
>>>>>  the
>>>>> question,  even if I don't have  anything like a  good  answer.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From:   nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org  [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org]   
On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of  fred   olver
>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 8:45    AM
>>>>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing  List
>>>>>  Subject:  [Nfbmo] What would you   do?
>>>>>
>>>>> A year ago, I   attended a  Trivia Night put on by a food pantry in 
the
>>   St.
>>>>>  Louis area. This pantry is supported by  my  church along with 
>>>>>  several
>>>>>  others.
>>>>> After  the night's program was  over, half of  the categories  being
>>>>> visual
>>>>>   in
>>>>>  nature so that a blind person could not   participate in that portion
>>>>>  of
>>>>>  the
>>>>> program I wrote  an item for my churches   news-letter and sent it on 
 
>>>>> to
>> the
>>>>> director  of  the  organization. In this item I pointed out that it  
was
>>   not
>>>>> fair  or  necessary to include only video-type  questions and asked
>  that
>>>>> they
>>>>>  do, in the  future consider having  categories which were non-video  
>>>>> in
>> the
>>>>> future. I  received  assurances from  the director of the  
organization
>> that
>>>>> indeed   they  would do this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Last Friday,  I  attended  their Trivia Nighht again. True, only   two
>>>>>  categories
>>>>> of  questions were  video in nature, however these  two  categories
>>  included
>>>>> roughly 1/3 of  the questions.  Yesterday at  a meeting of a  church
>>>>> committee
>>>>>    I
>>>>> suggested that they with-hold two weeks worth  of  donations  and that
>> these
>>>>>  donations go to  another organization as a  protest, the rest of  the
>>>>>  committee
>>>>> said no  to  this idea, sighting the  possibility that a family  might
>>>>>  have
>>>>>   to
>>>>> do without this food, I  personally doubt it,  and figure  they're 
just
>>>>>   to
>>>>> comfortable in their place and don't wish  to   because it doesn't
> affect
>>>>>  them,
>>>>> so  what would  you do if you were in  my place? This really upsets 
>>>>>  me,
>>>>>  especially since I had spoken to this   organization a year ago and
>>>>>  they
>>>>>  had
>>>>> more or less  agreed that this was not  a good  thing to have  happen.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fred    Olver
>>>>> http://www.dealingwithvisionloss.com For some of  us  it's  a way of
> life
>>>>>  and
>>>>> for some  of us it just makes  life  easier. Fred Olver
>>>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>>>  Nfbmo  mailing  list
>>>>>   Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>    _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
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