[Nfbmo] What would you do?
Dewey Bradley
dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com
Thu Oct 27 06:06:28 UTC 2011
I was talking about the blind people on this list as well, they jump all
over me, that is why I am going to leave all the blind groups, some things
have been said in the past, and so people remember my name, and are going to
do that, so I get the pointe.
I just moved to a new city and whent to a chapter meeting a week ago, but
something Debby said has turned me off for good.
----- Original Message -----
From: <DanFlasar at aol.com>
To: <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>I agree - I have enough things to deal with without having to address the
> neuroses of random people at bus stops or waiting in line.
>
>
>
> In a message dated 10/27/2011 12:32:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com writes:
>
> Well he didn't think I heard him, he was an older guy, so something has
> up
> set him I guess, who knows, but if you read the other posts from this
> list,
> I'm the only one who has ever gotten that, I'm angry
> But I don't bother with people like that, its a waste of my time
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <DanFlasar at aol.com>
> To: <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>
>
>> Dewey,
>> Sounds like that guy at the bus stop felt inferior in the presence of
>> someone he felt had a lot more courage than he does.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 10/26/2011 11:37:02 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
>> dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com writes:
>>
>> I had a guy at the bus stop the other day telling someone that if he
> were
>> blind he would kill him self, but that is just me being angry I guess.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <DanFlasar at aol.com>
>> To: <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 7:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>
>>
>>> There are always a few fringey people in every group. Generally,
>>> it's
>>> not
>>> good to elect, appoint or anoint them, much less generalize from
>>> their
>>> poor behavior to the rest of the group.
>>> And anyone who would pray for you to get your sight back and call
> you
>>> evil if you don't needs to pray to lift the arrogance from their
>>> soul.
>>> Dan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 10/26/2011 5:51:12 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
>>> mdsmith25 at ktis.net writes:
>>>
>>> I've run across a few people who believe that if I just pray enough
>>> my
>>> blindness will be cured, but none that thought my blindness was
> caused
>>> because I was evil.
>>>
>>> Melissa Smith
>>>
>>> On 10/26/2011 5:02 PM, Gail Bryant wrote:
>>>> Personally, I go to a wonderful church which has supported me in
> every
>>> way
>>>> possible. When I've had surgery, the helped me with meals and
> whatever
>> I
>>>> needed. When Ed died, they prayed with me, cried with me, laughed
>>>> with
>>> me
>>>> and more. Never have they called me evil. I don't know where Mr.
>>> Bradley
>>>> gets his figures, but perhaps the reason he chooses not to go to
>> church
>>> is
>>>> out of anger and bitterness
>>>>
>>>> Gail Bryant
>>>> Columbia Braille Teaching Services L.L.C.
>>>> 1212 London Drive
>>>> Columbia, MO 65203-2012
>>>> Phone: (573)817-5993
>>>> Cell: (573)268-4962
>>>> gbryant at socket.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Debbie Wunder
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 2:05 PM
>>>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>
>>>> You are being ridiculous! Where do you get your facts?
>>>> This trivia night issue has nothing to do with god, or opinions of
> the
>>>> blind.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Dewey Bradley"<dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com>
>>>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List"<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 9:39 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I wasn't going to reply to this, but I have to say this
>>>>> its been my experience that churches and church groups do this,
> they
>> do
>>>>> not want anyone with a disability around, they just want to tell us
>>>>> that
>>>>> if we pray harder we will have are sight back, and that we are
>>>>> evil,
>>> that
>>>>> is why we are blind.
>>>>> They say that 95% of us don't go to church, I don't know if the
>>>>> numbers
>>>>> are that high, but this is why.
>>>>> Most people that go to church and call them selves Christians are
>>>>> judgmental like that.
>>>>> I'm not saying don't go to church, nor am I trying to get a lintch
>>>>> mob
>>>>> after me, I'm just saying that is what I've noticed, that is why I
>>>>> never
>>>>> go, every church I have seen do not want blind people around.
>>>>> I'm not saying that is the case here, but it could be
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "MATTHEW SIEVERT"<msievert at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List"<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 7:33 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Group,
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope you are all well.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I have observed is that many times people will want to "rebel"
>>>>> instead of
>>>>> remedy a situation through other means.
>>>>>
>>>>> Equality for all will not take place over a period of one year or
>> even
>>> ten
>>>>> years, but you can lay the foundation that other's can build
>>>>> upon.
>>>>>
>>>>> Representing a group in a negative light will not win over
>> supporters.
>>> It
>>>>> will
>>>>> bring attention to the issue, but you want people understand, not
>>>>> simply
>>>>> notice
>>>>> through a negative act.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some day we will have a blind/visually impaired astronaut. Until
> that
>>> time
>>>>> we as
>>>>> the NFB should do what we can to build upon our organization's
>>>>> achievements and
>>>>> represent our disabled community in a positive light.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Equality at trivia night's should be obtained, but like all
>> challenges,
>>> it
>>>>> will
>>>>> take time and a calm intellect.
>>>>>
>>>>> Matt Sievert
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: fred olver<goodfolks at charter.net>
>>>>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wed, October 26, 2011 7:41:12 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>>
>>>>> Gary,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have read your comments several times and perhapse even lost some
>>> sleep
>>>>> over what I consider to be an afrontery to me and others who might
>> wish
>>> to
>>>>> participate in an activity alongside individuals who are not
>>>>> limited
>> in
>>>>> their vision.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me say first of all that a year ago I confronted this situation
>> and
>>>>> explained to the individuals in charge that I felt wronged because
>> half
>>> of
>>>>> the questions were undeciferable by myself. Okay, they didn't know
>>>>> I
>>>>> was
>>>>> going to be there. This year, however nearly a third of the
> questions
>>> were
>>>>> again undeciferable by a blind person. It is my feeling that if the
>>> folks
>>>>> in
>>>>> charge know that individuals will be participating who are unable
> to
>>>>> participate in a significant number of questions related to the
>>>>> activity
>>>>> that they not allow those questions. To me, the reasons ought to be
>>>>> very
>>>>> obvious. If you alienate a significant number of individuals you
>>>>> won't
>>> get
>>>>> them to come back next year. If you knowingly allow questions to be
> a
>>> part
>>>>> of an activity which you know will exclude individuals from
>>> participating
>>>>> then you are wrong to include them. If for example I only provide
>>> agenda's
>>>>> in Braille to individuals who don't read Braille then I am wrong to
>>>>> do
>>> so,
>>>>> because I have ignored their needs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bottom line, I'm feeling ignored. Next year, I think I'll find
> seven
>>> other
>>>>> individuals who can not make use of visual questions and attend the
>>>>> same
>>>>> fundraiser and practice a bit of civil disobedience.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Fred Olver
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Gary Wunder"<GWunder at earthlink.net>
>>>>> To: "'NFB of Missouri Mailing List'"<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 5:53 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Fred and the folks who have commented here. Please allow me
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> interject
>>>>>> another perspective. I find this troublesome philosophically. When
> I
>>> can
>>>>>> have access and am denied it because someone doesn't want to go to
>> the
>>>>>> trouble of making their software accessible, I'm up in arms. When
>> they
>>>>>> use
>>>>>> artificial barriers such as possessing a driver's license when
>>>>>> what
>>> they
>>>>>> mean is that an employee has to get around, I'm bothered. When
> they
>>> say I
>>>>>> have to be able to visually read print to take a job and I have a
>>> machine
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> do it, I'm outraged.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How is the issue changed when we know of no way to make a process
>> 100
>>>>>> percent accessible? I don't want to deprive anyone of the beauty
>> found
>>> in
>>>>>> paintings or photography simply because I can't observe them. I
>>>>>> understand
>>>>>> there are some cartoons that are so torturous to explain that by
> the
>>> time
>>>>>> one finishes putting them into words, they are no longer funny.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mental challenges may be audible, visual, or they might even
> involve
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> senses such as taste or smell. If we look hard enough, we'll find
>>> people
>>>>>> who
>>>>>> have problems with one or more of these. So, in the areas where we
>>> don't
>>>>>> have true alternatives, should our request be that the thing we
>> cannot
>>> do
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> stricken from the activity? Would we have been wrong to run a clip
>
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> Henry
>>>>>> Kissinger saying "Piece is at hand," and asking the group to
>>>>>> identify
>>> the
>>>>>> man or what he was talking about or the year when he made the
>>> utterance?
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> blind are at something of a disadvantage because we cannot see
>>>>>> him.
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> deaf
>>>>>> are at a disadvantage because they cannot hear him. The young may
>> well
>>> be
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> a disadvantage because they weren't around when he made headlines
>> with
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> statement, much to the displeasure of his boss, the president of
> the
>>>>>> United
>>>>>> States. Take the same question, put it in print, and then decide
>>>>>> if
>> it
>>> is
>>>>>> fair to the dyslexic who might have an easy time with the audio or
>> the
>>>>>> video
>>>>>> clip.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I Don't like being excluded, and if I am excluded enough, I'll
> find
>>>>>> another
>>>>>> activity. It hurts and seems unfair, but to me it doesn't rise to
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> level
>>>>>> of discrimination which, if I understand it, means something which
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> both
>>>>>> unreasonable and detrimental. I don't think we can be critical
>>>>>> of
>>> people
>>>>>> using sight and acknowledging that it plays a major role in the
>>>>>> way
>>> they
>>>>>> find and even remember things. What we can and should make an
>>> unequivocal
>>>>>> stand for are things which have nonvisual alternatives but which
> are
>>>>>> ignored
>>>>>> to the detriment of our education and employment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do not mean this as a real answer to the question of what should
> I
>>> do,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> as a thought process we go through when trying to decide when to
>> fight
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> what we can reasonably fight for as blind people. I am not
> targeting
>>> Fred
>>>>>> here but trying to engage in some discussion of a philosophical
>>> principle
>>>>>> that I wrestle with at least two or three times per month. I
>>> appreciate
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> question, even if I don't have anything like a good answer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of fred olver
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 8:45 AM
>>>>>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A year ago, I attended a Trivia Night put on by a food pantry in
> the
>>> St.
>>>>>> Louis area. This pantry is supported by my church along with
>>>>>> several
>>>>>> others.
>>>>>> After the night's program was over, half of the categories being
>>>>>> visual
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> nature so that a blind person could not participate in that
>>>>>> portion
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> program I wrote an item for my churches news-letter and sent it on
>
>>>>>> to
>>> the
>>>>>> director of the organization. In this item I pointed out that it
> was
>>> not
>>>>>> fair or necessary to include only video-type questions and asked
>> that
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> do, in the future consider having categories which were non-video
>>>>>> in
>>> the
>>>>>> future. I received assurances from the director of the
> organization
>>> that
>>>>>> indeed they would do this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Last Friday, I attended their Trivia Nighht again. True, only
>>>>>> two
>>>>>> categories
>>>>>> of questions were video in nature, however these two categories
>>> included
>>>>>> roughly 1/3 of the questions. Yesterday at a meeting of a church
>>>>>> committee
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> suggested that they with-hold two weeks worth of donations and
>>>>>> that
>>> these
>>>>>> donations go to another organization as a protest, the rest of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> committee
>>>>>> said no to this idea, sighting the possibility that a family
>>>>>> might
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> do without this food, I personally doubt it, and figure they're
> just
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> comfortable in their place and don't wish to because it doesn't
>> affect
>>>>>> them,
>>>>>> so what would you do if you were in my place? This really upsets
>>>>>> me,
>>>>>> especially since I had spoken to this organization a year ago and
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> had
>>>>>> more or less agreed that this was not a good thing to have
>>>>>> happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fred Olver
>>>>>> http://www.dealingwithvisionloss.com For some of us it's a way of
>> life
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> for some of us it just makes life easier. Fred Olver
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>>>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
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>>>
>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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