[Nfbmo] Fearing not being able to see.
DanFlasar at aol.com
DanFlasar at aol.com
Thu Oct 27 15:54:32 UTC 2011
I think it's less being taught to fear blindness but not being able to
comprehend how one would do anything at all without the use of sight. You
are absolutely right that knowing a blind person who succcessfully navigates
the world puts people more at ease with blindness once they see that it can
be done - and it's getting easier in some ways (harder in others). As
always, the fear and stereotypes people have from ignorance is the biggest
problem.
Dan
In a message dated 10/27/2011 7:35:29 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
goodfolks at charter.net writes:
It has for a long time now, been my contention that people with vision
have
been brought up to fear not being able to see. For the last several months
I
have given much consideration and thought to, going to a local newspaper
and
asking for equal time with regard to the positive aspects of blindness,
the
advances in technology, ground-breaking cases etc. When a person goes to
bed, they take off their glasses, and the glasses are the first thing they
reach for. They can't find the bathroom, let alone the floor without their
glasses and they are taught to do that by their siblings and parents. A
sad
state of affairs if you ask me.
Fred Olver
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Wunder" <GWunder at earthlink.net>
To: "'NFB of Missouri Mailing List'" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 7:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
> Hi Dewey. This is not just you being angry--this is blindness being
feared
> second only to cancer--and it points up the work we have to do both for
> ourselves and blind people to come. We have to convince them there is
> quality life after blindness.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
> Of Dewey Bradley
> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 11:40 PM
> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>
> I had a guy at the bus stop the other day telling someone that if he were
> blind he would kill him self, but that is just me being angry I guess.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <DanFlasar at aol.com>
> To: <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 7:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>
>
>> There are always a few fringey people in every group. Generally, it's
>> not
>> good to elect, appoint or anoint them, much less generalize from their
>> poor behavior to the rest of the group.
>> And anyone who would pray for you to get your sight back and call
>> you
>> evil if you don't needs to pray to lift the arrogance from their soul.
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 10/26/2011 5:51:12 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
>> mdsmith25 at ktis.net writes:
>>
>> I've run across a few people who believe that if I just pray enough my
>> blindness will be cured, but none that thought my blindness was caused
>> because I was evil.
>>
>> Melissa Smith
>>
>> On 10/26/2011 5:02 PM, Gail Bryant wrote:
>>> Personally, I go to a wonderful church which has supported me in every
>> way
>>> possible. When I've had surgery, the helped me with meals and
whatever
>>> I
>>> needed. When Ed died, they prayed with me, cried with me, laughed
with
>> me
>>> and more. Never have they called me evil. I don't know where Mr.
>> Bradley
>>> gets his figures, but perhaps the reason he chooses not to go to
church
>> is
>>> out of anger and bitterness
>>>
>>> Gail Bryant
>>> Columbia Braille Teaching Services L.L.C.
>>> 1212 London Drive
>>> Columbia, MO 65203-2012
>>> Phone: (573)817-5993
>>> Cell: (573)268-4962
>>> gbryant at socket.net
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>>> Of Debbie Wunder
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 2:05 PM
>>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>
>>> You are being ridiculous! Where do you get your facts?
>>> This trivia night issue has nothing to do with god, or opinions of the
>>> blind.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Dewey Bradley"<dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com>
>>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List"<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 9:39 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>
>>>
>>>> I wasn't going to reply to this, but I have to say this
>>>> its been my experience that churches and church groups do this, they
>>>> do
>>>> not want anyone with a disability around, they just want to tell us
>>>> that
>>>> if we pray harder we will have are sight back, and that we are evil,
>> that
>>>> is why we are blind.
>>>> They say that 95% of us don't go to church, I don't know if the
>>>> numbers
>>>> are that high, but this is why.
>>>> Most people that go to church and call them selves Christians are
>>>> judgmental like that.
>>>> I'm not saying don't go to church, nor am I trying to get a lintch
mob
>>>> after me, I'm just saying that is what I've noticed, that is why I
>>>> never
>>>> go, every church I have seen do not want blind people around.
>>>> I'm not saying that is the case here, but it could be
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "MATTHEW SIEVERT"<msievert at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List"<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 7:33 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Group,
>>>>
>>>> I hope you are all well.
>>>>
>>>> What I have observed is that many times people will want to "rebel"
>>>> instead of
>>>> remedy a situation through other means.
>>>>
>>>> Equality for all will not take place over a period of one year or
even
>> ten
>>>> years, but you can lay the foundation that other's can build upon.
>>>>
>>>> Representing a group in a negative light will not win over
supporters.
>> It
>>>> will
>>>> bring attention to the issue, but you want people understand, not
>>>> simply
>>>> notice
>>>> through a negative act.
>>>>
>>>> Some day we will have a blind/visually impaired astronaut. Until that
>> time
>>>> we as
>>>> the NFB should do what we can to build upon our organization's
>>>> achievements and
>>>> represent our disabled community in a positive light.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Equality at trivia night's should be obtained, but like all
>>>> challenges,
>> it
>>>> will
>>>> take time and a calm intellect.
>>>>
>>>> Matt Sievert
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: fred olver<goodfolks at charter.net>
>>>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wed, October 26, 2011 7:41:12 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>
>>>> Gary,
>>>>
>>>> I have read your comments several times and perhapse even lost some
>> sleep
>>>> over what I consider to be an afrontery to me and others who might
>>>> wish
>> to
>>>> participate in an activity alongside individuals who are not limited
>>>> in
>>>> their vision.
>>>>
>>>> Let me say first of all that a year ago I confronted this situation
>>>> and
>>>> explained to the individuals in charge that I felt wronged because
>>>> half
>> of
>>>> the questions were undeciferable by myself. Okay, they didn't know I
>>>> was
>>>> going to be there. This year, however nearly a third of the questions
>> were
>>>> again undeciferable by a blind person. It is my feeling that if the
>> folks
>>>> in
>>>> charge know that individuals will be participating who are unable to
>>>> participate in a significant number of questions related to the
>>>> activity
>>>> that they not allow those questions. To me, the reasons ought to be
>>>> very
>>>> obvious. If you alienate a significant number of individuals you
won't
>> get
>>>> them to come back next year. If you knowingly allow questions to be a
>> part
>>>> of an activity which you know will exclude individuals from
>> participating
>>>> then you are wrong to include them. If for example I only provide
>> agenda's
>>>> in Braille to individuals who don't read Braille then I am wrong to
do
>> so,
>>>> because I have ignored their needs.
>>>>
>>>> Bottom line, I'm feeling ignored. Next year, I think I'll find seven
>> other
>>>> individuals who can not make use of visual questions and attend the
>>>> same
>>>> fundraiser and practice a bit of civil disobedience.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fred Olver
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Gary Wunder"<GWunder at earthlink.net>
>>>> To: "'NFB of Missouri Mailing List'"<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 5:53 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Fred and the folks who have commented here. Please allow me to
>>>>> interject
>>>>> another perspective. I find this troublesome philosophically. When I
>> can
>>>>> have access and am denied it because someone doesn't want to go to
>>>>> the
>>>>> trouble of making their software accessible, I'm up in arms. When
>>>>> they
>>>>> use
>>>>> artificial barriers such as possessing a driver's license when what
>> they
>>>>> mean is that an employee has to get around, I'm bothered. When they
>> say I
>>>>> have to be able to visually read print to take a job and I have a
>> machine
>>>>> to
>>>>> do it, I'm outraged.
>>>>>
>>>>> How is the issue changed when we know of no way to make a process
100
>>>>> percent accessible? I don't want to deprive anyone of the beauty
>>>>> found
>> in
>>>>> paintings or photography simply because I can't observe them. I
>>>>> understand
>>>>> there are some cartoons that are so torturous to explain that by the
>> time
>>>>> one finishes putting them into words, they are no longer funny.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mental challenges may be audible, visual, or they might even
involve
>>>>> other
>>>>> senses such as taste or smell. If we look hard enough, we'll find
>> people
>>>>> who
>>>>> have problems with one or more of these. So, in the areas where we
>> don't
>>>>> have true alternatives, should our request be that the thing we
>>>>> cannot
>> do
>>>>> be
>>>>> stricken from the activity? Would we have been wrong to run a clip
of
>>>>> Henry
>>>>> Kissinger saying "Piece is at hand," and asking the group to
identify
>> the
>>>>> man or what he was talking about or the year when he made the
>> utterance?
>>>>> The
>>>>> blind are at something of a disadvantage because we cannot see him.
>>>>> The
>>>>> deaf
>>>>> are at a disadvantage because they cannot hear him. The young may
>>>>> well
>> be
>>>>> at
>>>>> a disadvantage because they weren't around when he made headlines
>>>>> with
>>>>> that
>>>>> statement, much to the displeasure of his boss, the president of
the
>>>>> United
>>>>> States. Take the same question, put it in print, and then decide if
>>>>> it
>> is
>>>>> fair to the dyslexic who might have an easy time with the audio or
>>>>> the
>>>>> video
>>>>> clip.
>>>>>
>>>>> I Don't like being excluded, and if I am excluded enough, I'll find
>>>>> another
>>>>> activity. It hurts and seems unfair, but to me it doesn't rise to
the
>>>>> level
>>>>> of discrimination which, if I understand it, means something which
is
>>>>> both
>>>>> unreasonable and detrimental. I don't think we can be critical of
>> people
>>>>> using sight and acknowledging that it plays a major role in the way
>> they
>>>>> find and even remember things. What we can and should make an
>> unequivocal
>>>>> stand for are things which have nonvisual alternatives but which are
>>>>> ignored
>>>>> to the detriment of our education and employment.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not mean this as a real answer to the question of what should I
>> do,
>>>>> but
>>>>> as a thought process we go through when trying to decide when to
>>>>> fight
>>>>> and
>>>>> what we can reasonably fight for as blind people. I am not targeting
>> Fred
>>>>> here but trying to engage in some discussion of a philosophical
>> principle
>>>>> that I wrestle with at least two or three times per month. I
>> appreciate
>>>>> the
>>>>> question, even if I don't have anything like a good answer.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of fred olver
>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 8:45 AM
>>>>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>>
>>>>> A year ago, I attended a Trivia Night put on by a food pantry in the
>> St.
>>>>> Louis area. This pantry is supported by my church along with
several
>>>>> others.
>>>>> After the night's program was over, half of the categories being
>>>>> visual
>>>>> in
>>>>> nature so that a blind person could not participate in that portion
>>>>> of
>>>>> the
>>>>> program I wrote an item for my churches news-letter and sent it on
to
>> the
>>>>> director of the organization. In this item I pointed out that it was
>> not
>>>>> fair or necessary to include only video-type questions and asked
>>>>> that
>>>>> they
>>>>> do, in the future consider having categories which were non-video in
>> the
>>>>> future. I received assurances from the director of the organization
>> that
>>>>> indeed they would do this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Last Friday, I attended their Trivia Nighht again. True, only two
>>>>> categories
>>>>> of questions were video in nature, however these two categories
>> included
>>>>> roughly 1/3 of the questions. Yesterday at a meeting of a church
>>>>> committee
>>>>> I
>>>>> suggested that they with-hold two weeks worth of donations and that
>> these
>>>>> donations go to another organization as a protest, the rest of the
>>>>> committee
>>>>> said no to this idea, sighting the possibility that a family might
>>>>> have
>>>>> to
>>>>> do without this food, I personally doubt it, and figure they're
just
>>>>> to
>>>>> comfortable in their place and don't wish to because it doesn't
>>>>> affect
>>>>> them,
>>>>> so what would you do if you were in my place? This really upsets
me,
>>>>> especially since I had spoken to this organization a year ago and
>>>>> they
>>>>> had
>>>>> more or less agreed that this was not a good thing to have happen.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fred Olver
>>>>> http://www.dealingwithvisionloss.com For some of us it's a way of
>>>>> life
>>>>> and
>>>>> for some of us it just makes life easier. Fred Olver
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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