[Nfbmo] Fw: Fw: What would you do?

Dewey Bradley dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com
Sun Oct 30 23:03:10 UTC 2011


shore
I will be there
I'm shore that Willa will remind me to come.
grin
I work with her
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Moynihan" <jamesmmoynihan at gmail.com>
To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] Fw: Fw: What would you do?


> Ruby
>
> Dewey sounds very negative.  It is good that you welcomed to the K. C. 
> chapter meeting.
>
> Love,
>
> Jim Moynihan
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ruby Polk" <r.polk1 at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 4:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] Fw: Fw: What would you do?
>
>
>> Oh Dewey,
>>
>> I just connected your Post to the person who came to our Chapter Meeting. 
>> Everyone really liked you and was talking to you. Your Post sound 
>> different from meeting you in person. Please come to our November 19 
>> Meeting at the same place which was the Westport Library. We will be 
>> happy to see you again.
>>
>> Thanks, Ruby Polk
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Dewey Bradley" <dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com>
>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 1:28 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] Fw: Fw: What would you do?
>>
>>
>>> Well we have 2 garries, I spoked with your husband about the Springfield 
>>> chapter
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Debbie Wunder" <debbiewunder at centurytel.net>
>>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 9:48 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] Fw: Fw: What would you do?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello , I would like for you to understand that I did not think you 
>>>> were trashing God, your spirititual beliefs are your own. My take was 
>>>> that you were thinking that the trivia night being discussed at a 
>>>> church was purposely trying to be difficult for the blind, that is why 
>>>> I said you were.
>>>>
>>>> As for the Springfield chapter, their low number and age is why we are 
>>>> trying to help them to grow. They are good people and hard working, 
>>>> they do not belong to another group. As for your private message to 
>>>> Gary, I never saw it so do not know what you are referring to, but you 
>>>> do continue to mention his name in a negative way on the list. He works 
>>>> hard to try to keep things together in Springfield. Your help would 
>>>> always be welcome, I do not know where you live in KC, but we have a 
>>>> wonderful chapter made up of people of many different personalities. 
>>>> Shelia Wright is their president and I know she would welcome 
>>>> membership.
>>>>
>>>> The name Missouri many canoes, and as both Gary Wunder  and Jim 
>>>> Moynihan have mentioned we need help in rowing those canoes. We help 
>>>> many blind people who are members and non members alike, we are 
>>>> offering a paddle to you. Will by our take i?
>>>>
>>>> My  home phone is 573 874 1774, if you would like the number for some 
>>>> KC folks, give me a call and I will help put you in touch.
>>>>
>>>> Debbie
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Dewey Bradley" <dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com>
>>>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 12:26 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] Fw: Fw: What would you do?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Well I'll set the record streight on this
>>>>> I was a member, I joined the Denver chapter back in 97 when I was 
>>>>> going through my training at the CCB
>>>>> I agree with the philosophy, that's why I am on these lists anyway.
>>>>> I have moved around between 4 states and havent really been able to 
>>>>> get involved
>>>>> I was going to go to the Belleville Illinois chapter, I whent to 2 
>>>>> meetings, but they never showed up at the library after they had the 
>>>>> room booked, I don't remember what was going on with that, but that 
>>>>> was in 2005
>>>>> I whent to some of the meetings in Springfield, but they have like 4 
>>>>> or 5 people, most people there are MCB members, they are mostley older 
>>>>> people that trash the NFB and what it stands for, I don't because I 
>>>>> agree like I said.
>>>>> If I stay in Kansas City I had pland to join the KC chapter, if they 
>>>>> will have me, a co-worker talked me into going.
>>>>> I have had words with some of you, some of it has been me I guess, I 
>>>>> don't word things very well, but you guys also jump all over me some 
>>>>> times.
>>>>> I don't agree politically with most blind people, so some of you have 
>>>>> talked trash about that, but my party has always been call nasty 
>>>>> things like racest and all kinds of stuff, plus I had sent out a 
>>>>> message that was ment only for 1 person in Springfield, Garry knows 
>>>>> who that is, we talk.
>>>>> But it whent out to the who list, and I got jumped over that one.
>>>>> But I am never trying to argue with anyone, we all have the same goles
>>>>> But if everyone would like, then I will take my self off all the lists 
>>>>> until I see if I am going to join, like I said If I stay in Kansas 
>>>>> City, witch I should I guess, then I pland to join.
>>>>> I have also been invited to the Johnson county Kansas meetings in 
>>>>> Kansas City Kansas, witch I plan to attend
>>>>> And so I'm sorry you folks thought I was trashing churches, I was not, 
>>>>> all I was saying was I have never found one that I felt welcome in
>>>>> So if anyone here in KC that knows of one, then my mind is open
>>>>> and yes I believe in God, so don't think I don't
>>>>> Good day to you folks!
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Gail Bryant" <gbryant at socket.net>
>>>>> To: "'NFB of Missouri Mailing List'" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 1:12 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] Fw: Fw: What would you do?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well nobody is perfect and we all can learn from one another. 
>>>>>> Everyone on
>>>>>> this list has probably had similar experiences about being healed of
>>>>>> blindness.  Sometimes we must realize that society has different 
>>>>>> attitudes
>>>>>> than do we.  Does that make either one of us bad or wrong? Of course 
>>>>>> not.
>>>>>> Remember even the thief on the cross was forgiven, and nobody is 
>>>>>> criticizing
>>>>>> him.  Lighten up and try us.  If you don't like us, then shake off 
>>>>>> the dust
>>>>>> and move on. We need to  remember that this organization helps 
>>>>>> people. But
>>>>>> not everyone wants our help. And some don't think they need us. For 
>>>>>> me, NFB
>>>>>> is like a big family.  Sometimes we hug each other and sometimes we 
>>>>>> need to
>>>>>> give each other a swift boot as a reality check.  Either way, we love 
>>>>>> each
>>>>>> other. I think I could contact any member in this organization and 
>>>>>> say
>>>>>> something like "Hey whomever I'm excited, or hurt, or whatever and 
>>>>>> they'd
>>>>>> lend their support. By the same token, I've had my share of reality 
>>>>>> checks
>>>>>> and swift kicks from this bunch and that's what helps us grow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gail Bryant
>>>>>> Columbia Braille Teaching Services L.L.C.
>>>>>> 1212 London Drive
>>>>>> Columbia, MO 65203-2012
>>>>>> Phone: (573)817-5993
>>>>>> Cell: (573)268-4962
>>>>>> gbryant at socket.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of Shelia Wright
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 11:54 AM
>>>>>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] Fw: Fw: What would you do?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: James Moynihan <jamesmmoynihan at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 9:59 AM
>>>>>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Subject: [Nfbmo] Fw:  Fw:  What would you do?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Dewey:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have read your emails for a long time  regarding NFB concerns.  I 
>>>>>> always
>>>>>> assumed you were a member until I was told that you were not a member 
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> NFB.  Debbie Wunder who is the president's wife invited you to attend 
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> meeting in Springfield and said she would like you to become a 
>>>>>> member. This
>>>>>> was a friendly invitation to join.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It seems to me that you are very familiar with NFB and where we 
>>>>>> stand. I
>>>>>> agree with Debbie that you should go to the Springfield meeting and 
>>>>>> become a
>>>>>> member  .  If you do not go to the meeting  and you do not intend to 
>>>>>> become
>>>>>> a member, in  the future you should refrain from sending emails 
>>>>>> commenting
>>>>>> on the NFB.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cordially,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jim Moynihan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Dewey Bradley" <dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com>
>>>>>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 11:54 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] Fw: What would you do?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The thing is I wasn't being critical, I was just saying that I my 
>>>>>>> self had
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> had bad experiences, and then everyone starts calling me angry and 
>>>>>>> stuff.
>>>>>>> But I will say no more on this or anything else
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>> From: "James Moynihan" <jamesmmoynihan at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 6:10 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [Nfbmo] Fw: What would you do?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear Dewey et al:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Gary Wunder made an analogy between the NFB and a small canoe.  We 
>>>>>>>> have a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> small canoe and not enough paddlers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My advice to you is to get in or get out.  I don't understand why 
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> read our emails and make critical comments if you are not a member. 
>>>>>>>> We
>>>>>>>> have to waste our time reading our critical comments.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When I moved to Saint Louis I joined Mary Mother of the Churdch and 
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> participate in their activities. They have learned that it is a 
>>>>>>>> stick not
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a cane and that blind people can participate intelligently in group
>>>>>>>> activities.  Ignorance regarding blindness is rampant throughout 
>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>> society so it is inappropriate to dwell on church members. 
>>>>>>>> Cordially
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jim MoynihanWe have a few
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>> From: "Dewey Bradley" <dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:30 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> nope, I don't think you will see me at anything
>>>>>>>>> have a good day
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>>> From: "Debbie Wunder" <debbiewunder at centurytel.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 7:37 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dewey, we would love to have you as a member, if you choose not 
>>>>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>>>>> then both you and the NFB are being short changed. It seems to me 
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> you often dwell on the negative instead of the positive. Yes I 
>>>>>>>>>> have her
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> negative comments about the blind even from the church groups, 
>>>>>>>>>> But what
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> is ridiculous is the thought that a trivia game is made difficult 
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> keep the blind away.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We will have a meeting in Springfield the first Saturday in 
>>>>>>>>>> November,
>>>>>>>>>> would you like to join us? We would like to have you. If you 
>>>>>>>>>> would like
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> more information please let me know.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hope to see you there!
>>>>>>>>>> Debbie
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Dewey Bradley" <dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 11:32 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>A blind pastor said it, like I said, I don't know if the numbers 
>>>>>>>>>>>are
>>>>>>>>>>>that high, nore can they tell who goes.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But thank you for calling me ridiculous, it really encourages 
>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>> to join the groups and go to the chapter meetings.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Debbie Wunder" <debbiewunder at centurytel.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 2:04 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You are being ridiculous! Where do you get your facts?
>>>>>>>>>>>> This trivia night issue has nothing to do with god, or opinions 
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind.
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Dewey Bradley" <dewey.bradley at kc.rr.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 9:39 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>I wasn't going to reply to this, but I have to say this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> its been my experience that churches and church groups do 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this, they
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> do not want anyone with a disability around, they just want to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell
>>>>>>>>>>>>> us that if we pray harder we will have are sight back, and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are evil, that is why we are blind.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> They say that 95% of us don't go to church, I don't know if 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> numbers are that high, but this is why.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most people that go to church and call them selves Christians 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgmental like that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not saying don't go to church, nor am I trying to get a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lintch
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mob after me, I'm just saying that is what I've noticed, that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is why
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never go, every church I have seen do not want blind people
>>>>>>>>>>>>> around.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not saying that is the case here, but it could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "MATTHEW SIEVERT" <msievert at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 7:33 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Group,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hope you are all well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I have observed is that many times people will want to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "rebel"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> instead of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> remedy a situation through other means.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Equality for all will not take place over a period of one year 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> even ten
>>>>>>>>>>>>> years, but you can lay the foundation that other's can build 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> upon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Representing a group in a negative light will not win over
>>>>>>>>>>>>> supporters. It will
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bring attention to the issue, but you want people understand, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> simply notice
>>>>>>>>>>>>> through a negative act.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some day we will have a blind/visually impaired astronaut. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Until
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that time we as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the NFB should do what we can to build upon our organization's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> achievements and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> represent our disabled community in a positive light.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Equality at trivia night's should be obtained, but like all
>>>>>>>>>>>>> challenges, it will
>>>>>>>>>>>>> take time and a calm intellect.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Matt Sievert
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: fred olver <goodfolks at charter.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wed, October 26, 2011 7:41:12 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have read your comments several times and perhapse even lost 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sleep
>>>>>>>>>>>>> over what I consider to be an afrontery to me and others who 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wish to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> participate in an activity alongside individuals who are not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their vision.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me say first of all that a year ago I confronted this 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> situation
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> explained to the individuals in charge that I felt wronged 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>>>>>> half of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the questions were undeciferable by myself. Okay, they didn't 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> know I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to be there. This year, however nearly a third of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions were
>>>>>>>>>>>>> again undeciferable by a blind person. It is my feeling that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> if the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> folks in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> charge know that individuals will be participating who are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> unable to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> participate in a significant number of questions related to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> activity
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they not allow those questions. To me, the reasons ought 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>>>> obvious. If you alienate a significant number of individuals 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> won't get
>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to come back next year. If you knowingly allow questions 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a part
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of an activity which you know will exclude individuals from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> participating
>>>>>>>>>>>>> then you are wrong to include them. If for example I only 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>>>>>>>> agenda's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in Braille to individuals who don't read Braille then I am 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrong to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> do so,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> because I have ignored their needs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bottom line, I'm feeling ignored. Next year, I think I'll find 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> seven
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>> individuals who can not make use of visual questions and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> attend the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fundraiser and practice a bit of civil disobedience.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fred Olver
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Gary Wunder" <GWunder at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "'NFB of Missouri Mailing List'" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 5:53 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Fred and the folks who have commented here. Please allow 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interject
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another perspective. I find this troublesome philosophically. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have access and am denied it because someone doesn't want to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trouble of making their software accessible, I'm up in arms. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> artificial barriers such as possessing a driver's license 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when what
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean is that an employee has to get around, I'm bothered. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When they
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to be able to visually read print to take a job and I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machine
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do it, I'm outraged.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How is the issue changed when we know of no way to make a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> process
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 100
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> percent accessible? I don't want to deprive anyone of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beauty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paintings or photography simply because I can't observe them. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there are some cartoons that are so torturous to explain that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one finishes putting them into words, they are no longer 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> funny.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mental challenges may be audible, visual, or they might even
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involve other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> senses such as taste or smell. If we look hard enough, we'll 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have problems with one or more of these. So, in the areas 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have true alternatives, should our request be that the thing 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stricken from the activity? Would we have been wrong to run a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clip
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Henry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kissinger saying "Piece is at hand," and asking the group to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> identify the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> man or what he was talking about or the year when he made the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> utterance?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind are at something of a disadvantage because we cannot 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see him
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deaf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are at a disadvantage because they cannot hear him. The young 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a disadvantage because they weren't around when he made 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> headlines
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> statement, much to the displeasure of his boss, the president 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> United
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> States. Take the same question, put it in print, and then 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decide if
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fair to the dyslexic who might have an easy time with the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> audio or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> video
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clip.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I Don't like being excluded, and if I am excluded enough, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll find
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> activity. It hurts and seems unfair, but to me it doesn't 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rise to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of discrimination which, if I understand it, means something 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is both
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unreasonable and detrimental. I don't think we can be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> critical of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> using sight and acknowledging that it plays a major role in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the way
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find and even remember things. What we can and should make an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unequivocal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stand for are things which have nonvisual alternatives but 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ignored
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the detriment of our education and employment.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not mean this as a real answer to the question of what 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as a thought process we go through when trying to decide when 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fight and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what we can reasonably fight for as blind people. I am not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> targeting Fred
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here but trying to engage in some discussion of a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> philosophical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I wrestle with at least two or three times per month. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question, even if I don't have anything like a good answer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of fred olver
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 8:45 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Nfbmo] What would you do?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A year ago, I attended a Trivia Night put on by a food pantry 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the St.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Louis area. This pantry is supported by my church along with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> several
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After the night's program was over, half of the categories 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visual in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nature so that a blind person could not participate in that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> portion
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> program I wrote an item for my churches news-letter and sent 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> director of the organization. In this item I pointed out that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fair or necessary to include only video-type questions and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> asked
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do, in the future consider having categories which were 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-video
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> future. I received assurances from the director of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> organization
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indeed they would do this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Last Friday, I attended their Trivia Nighht again. True, only 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> categories
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of questions were video in nature, however these two 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> categories
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> included
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roughly 1/3 of the questions. Yesterday at a meeting of a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> church
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> committee
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggested that they with-hold two weeks worth of donations 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and that
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> donations go to another organization as a protest, the rest 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> committee
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said no to this idea, sighting the possibility that a family 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do without this food, I personally doubt it, and figure 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> comfortable in their place and don't wish to because it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> affect
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so what would you do if you were in my place? This really 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> upsets
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially since I had spoken to this organization a year ago 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more or less agreed that this was not a good thing to have 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fred Olver
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.dealingwithvisionloss.com For some of us it's a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for some of us it just makes life easier. Fred Olver
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nfbmo:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/gwunder%40earthlink.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nfbmo:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/goodfolks%40charter.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for Nfbmo:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/msievert%40sbcglobal.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for Nfbmo:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/dewey.bradley%40kc.rr.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for Nfbmo:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/debbiewunder%40centurytel
>>>>>> .net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nfbmo:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/dewey.bradley%40kc.rr.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>> Nfbmo:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/debbiewunder%40centurytel
>>>>>> .net
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> Nfbmo:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/dewey.bradley%40kc.rr.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> Nfbmo:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/jamesmmoynihan%40gmail.co
>>>>>> m
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>>>>>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> Nfbmo:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/dewey.bradley%40kc.rrcom
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>>>>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> Nfbmo:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/jamesmmoynihan%40gmailcom
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>>>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>>> Nfbmo:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/sbwright95%40att.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>>>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>>> Nfbmo:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/gbryant%40socket.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----
>>>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>> Version: 2012.0.1834 / Virus Database: 2092/4580 - Release Date: 
>>>>>> 10/28/11
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>>>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>>> Nfbmo:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/dewey.bradley%40kc.rr.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>> Nfbmo:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/debbiewunder%40centurytel.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>> Nfbmo:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/dewey.bradley%40kc.rr.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nfbmo mailing list
>>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> Nfbmo:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/r.polk1%40sbcglobal.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nfbmo mailing list
>> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> Nfbmo:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/jamesmmoynihan%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfbmo mailing list
> Nfbmo at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmo_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Nfbmo:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmo_nfbnet.org/dewey.bradley%40kc.rr.com 





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