[Nfbmo] you and dog guides.

[Chris Judd]

I agree,
This was an excellent seminar.  A lot of excellent info was shared, and I 
had a great time.
Great job all that presented.
Chris
One of the advantages bowling has over golf is that you seldom lose a 
bowling ball.  ~Don Carter
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Debbie Wunder" <debbiewunder at centurytel.net>
To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2012 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] you and dog guides.


Hello, dogs are able to learn many words such as chair, escalator, pole,
just to give a few examples. They don't necessarily know a chair to be a
chair, you could call it anything. You ask them to show it to you, taking
them to the new thing to learn. Some schools use a clicker, and when the dog
touches the object, you click the clicker and give them a word of praise,
and a piece of kibble. They very soon like finding this object and will
continue to do so for just praise as time goes along.

We had a great seminar today, a great deal of information shared.

If you have not seen our division news letter, and would like to do so, just
email me and I will send it.

Thanks,
Debbie
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brian Wekamp" <bjwekamp02 at embarqmail.com>
To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] you and dog guides.


> Hello Everyone:
>
> Since I have always been a Cane user how would a person who uses a Dog 
> guide find a trash can or locate a empty seat; like you all have said I 
> use my cane to locate things by reaching out with it and fealing whats 
> there.
>
>
> Tia
>
>
> Brian Wekamp
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Gene Coulter
> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 3:30 PM
> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] you and dog guides.
>
>
> Julie,
> Bravo. I like what you said very much and Fred made some good points. If I
> didn’t have other plans this weekend it would have fun to attend the
> seminar.
> Gene
> From: Julie McGinnity
> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 2:16 PM
> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] you and dog guides.
>
> Hello Fred,
>
> I would like to address some of the points you have made about using
> dog guides.  For those of you who don't know, I have been a guide dog
> user for over 4 years.  In no way does this make me an expert, but I
> have experienced some of these things that Fred brings up.  Of course,
> in many cases, I have experienced the contrary.
>
> Yes, sometimes people don't want my dog in the car/house/whatever.  It
> hasn't happened to me much, but when it does, not only do I offer to
> bring a towel for her to lay on in the car, I groom her a little extra
> that day.  It generally helps.  Some people are afraid of dogs, but in
> my experience, most people calm down once they see that the dog is
> working and won't bother them.  Yes, some of these things are
> inconvenient.
>
> My dog and I are a team.  I am proud of being a team.  I can read her
> slightest movements, and she can sense my mood.  We know each other
> very well.  It's a wonderful feeling to have this bond.
>
> I would like to address your book now.  I agree completely that a
> person needs to become proficient with a cane before applying for a
> guide dog.  The schools acknowledge this fact as well.
>
> I believe that it is personal preference whether or not you prefer a
> cane or dog when navigating an environment.  I have actually found
> that my orientation skills improved after I got a dog.  My mental
> mapping skills have gotten better because instead of feeling every
> little thing on the ground, I am able to concentrate on where I am
> going in a different way.  If I want my dog to show me something, I
> can usually manage to
> make that happen.  Some people prefer to use the cane to find things
> like chairs and trashcans because the cane will hit everything.  I
> prefer the dog because I don't hit everything.  No tripping people, no
> hitting every little crack in the sidewalk.
>
> "concerning dogs, when I was learning to use a cane, I asked my
> Mobility instructor whether or not I ought to consider getting a dog
> guide? He said “no”, that my skills were good enough that I didn’t
> need one. Turns out he was right."
>
> I think it's very important to dispell the notion that guide dogs are
> for those who are not proficient with canes.  Cane or dog is a choice.
> I choose a dog because I prefer to travel with one, and you prefer a
> cane because you prefer to travel with one.  There are many blind and
> sighted people who believe that because I am a guide dog user, I do
> not have good cane skills and cannot travel independently with and
> without a dog.  I understand that there are those who would fall into
> this catagory, but I believe it is wrong to assume that all guide dog
> users cannot travel safely with a cane.  One of the goals of the
> National Association of Guide dog Users is to advocate for the rights
> of guide dog users.  I also think that one of the most important
> things the organization should do is dispell these misconceptions and
> generalizations about those of us who choose a guide dog as our
> mobility tool.
>
> Sorry for such a long email, and thank you for reading.
> Julie
> President, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users
>
>
> On 10/26/12, Fred Olver <goodfolks at charter.net> wrote:
>> So, we're having a seminar on dog guides? An interesting topic to say the
>> least. I do wonder though, why we are not having a seminar on the use of
>> I-devices, an item which offers more flexability and perhapse more 
>> options
>> in terms of offering independence to a much larger segment of our
>> population/group. Let me say first of all that dogs are wonderful 
>> animals.
>> I
>> have two of them as pets. They each weigh about 40 pounds and help me to
>> get
>> some much-needed exercise on a daily basis. I decided to write this piece
>> because I am concerned from the perspective of a former dog-user about 
>> the
>> whole concept of your using a dog as a guide for the first time if you 
>> are
>> considering doing so. There are some things I personally think you need 
>> to
>> know that you probably won't hear at the seminar this Saturday. First of
>> all, there's a good chance that some of your friends won't want your dog
>> in
>> their car, especially if it's wet. Some folks just don't want to deal 
>> with
>> the whole issue of dog-hair and unless you are able to sit in the front
>> seat, there may not be enough room for your dog in the back, on the floor
>> where it should be. Secondly, although it is against the law, there are
>> some
>> cab drivers who will be unwilling to transport you and your dog because 
>> of
>> their religious beliefs. Third your dog isn't always going to relieve
>> itself
>> on cue. There may be times when your dog decides to take a dump in a mall
>> or
>> public building and you will need to clean it up. You will no longer be 
>> an
>> individual. You will be a team, and chances are that Fourth, at some 
>> point
>> people are going to walk up to you and speak to the dog first. Five,
>> sometimes, people may even feed your dog, or your dog may pick up some
>> food
>> from the floor when you are in a restaurant. Six, people are going to 
>> want
>> to pet your dog, and my experience tells me that although you might want
>> to
>> make lots of friends and a dog is a good way to do so, that if your dog 
>> is
>> in harness you ought not let anyone pet your dog not ever, while it is
>> working. If you do, once, than your dog may think it is okay for folks to
>> do
>> that on a regular basis and begin asking for attention without your even
>> knowing it.
>>
>> Some folks feel that because they have dogs as guides that they ought to
>> be
>> entitled to reduced rates for shots and other services from their
>> veterinarian. At one time there used to be a tax credit for folks who 
>> make
>> use of a dog guide although aI don't know that is true at this time. Some
>> schools may offer assistance to extremely ill dogs, however you should
>> expect that if your dog gets hurt that you need to be responsible to pay
>> the
>> vet bills. In other words, if your dog gets hurt, you should not expect
>> someone else to pick up the tab  just because you are blind.
>>
>> Some folks are going to be afraid of your dog, just because it is a dog.
>> Your dog is not your child and should not be treated as such. It is a 
>> very
>> loving animal, but it is also a tool which will allow you independence
>> however if not handled properly it can become a burden, a miss-behaving
>> child and more trouble than it is worth. Some people feel they must take
>> their dog absolutely everywhere, some show more common sense and have
>> determined that a baseball stadium or a bar are not good places for a 
>> dog.
>> Make sure you use common sense when working your dog. Is it really
>> necessary
>> to inconvenience others so you can use your dog when you could give it a
>> break and use your cane? After all, this whole independence thing, isn't
>> it
>> interdependence, and knowing when to allow yourself to rely on others at
>> appropriate times? If you are going to make use of a dog guide, and I use
>> this term because Guide Dogs is the name of an organization, you need to
>> keep up your cane skills. You also need to let others feed your dog say
>> once
>> a week, and you need to give yourself time away from your dog, because if
>> you don't, your dog may bond itself so much that it might not choose to
>> eat
>> when others attempt to give the dog it's dinner when you are away.
>>
>>
>>
>> Below is a piece from my book Dealing With Vision Loss which can be found
>> at
>> http://www.dealingwithvisionloss.com  some folks will disagree with what 
>> I
>> have said and what is said below, it is after all my own opinion. What
>> matters though here, is that if you are going to consider getting a dog
>> for
>> use as a guide that you understand as much as possible some of the
>> ramifications of doing so. The good and the bad.
>>
>>
>>
>> YOU AND DOG GUIDES
>>
>> I just can’t tell you how many times I have been asked “how come you don’t
>> have a seeing eye dog?” Well, there are lots of reasons, but the fact is,
>> that most sighted people look at dog guides as “Wonder-dogs.” When in
>> reality, if you don’t know how to get some place, how are you going to
>> tell
>> your dog to get you there? When you look at the list of resources in this
>> book, you will not find any dog guide schools listed. There is a specific
>> reason for that. Most schools which train people who are blind to make 
>> use
>> of dog guides like those individuals to be proficient in use of a cane,
>> FIRST. Consequently, whether you want to use a cane or not, if you are
>> thinking about getting a dog you need to learn to use a cane first.
>>
>> My own experience has taught me that, while using a dog guide, my
>> orientation skills, that is to say that my skills of “knowing where I was
>> in
>> relation to my environment” deteriorated. I was relying on my dog, as I
>> was
>> supposed to, so much, that I inadvertently became less aware of what was
>> around me. Partly because I was not using my cane to be able to know that
>> that trash can or bench was there, because my dog guide was taking me
>> around
>> it, as he was supposed to, but I found that when I didn’t have my dog 
>> with
>> me that getting around, maintaining my orientation and being mobile was a
>> much more difficult proposition than with a dog and that in order for me
>> to
>> be able to maintain my orientation skills that I needed to stop using a
>> dog.
>> Over the years, dog guide schools have modified their stand on using 
>> canes
>> and dogs. Used to be when you would go to the school, they would take 
>> your
>> cane away from you. Now, some schools encourage folks to use their canes
>> in
>> unfamiliar areas, or in order to help you to determine where you are in
>> relation to objects around you. A footnote to these comments
>>
>> concerning dogs, when I was learning to use a cane, I asked my Mobility
>> instructor whether or not I ought to consider getting a dog guide? He 
>> said
>> “no”, that my skills were good enough that I didn’t need one. Turns out 
>> he
>> was right.
>>
>>
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>
>
> -- 
> Julie McG
> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind
> of Missouri recording secretary,
> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
> and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind
>
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> life."
> John :316
>
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