[Nfbmo] you and dog guides.

[Debbie Wunder]

thanks Chris, it was good to see you.
Debbie
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Judd" <chrischas0805 at charter.net>
To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 2:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] you and dog guides.


>I agree,
> This was an excellent seminar.  A lot of excellent info was shared, and I 
> had a great time.
> Great job all that presented.
> Chris
> One of the advantages bowling has over golf is that you seldom lose a 
> bowling ball.  ~Don Carter
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Debbie Wunder" <debbiewunder at centurytel.net>
> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2012 7:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] you and dog guides.
>
>
> Hello, dogs are able to learn many words such as chair, escalator, pole,
> just to give a few examples. They don't necessarily know a chair to be a
> chair, you could call it anything. You ask them to show it to you, taking
> them to the new thing to learn. Some schools use a clicker, and when the 
> dog
> touches the object, you click the clicker and give them a word of praise,
> and a piece of kibble. They very soon like finding this object and will
> continue to do so for just praise as time goes along.
>
> We had a great seminar today, a great deal of information shared.
>
> If you have not seen our division news letter, and would like to do so, 
> just
> email me and I will send it.
>
> Thanks,
> Debbie
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Brian Wekamp" <bjwekamp02 at embarqmail.com>
> To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List" <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 10:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] you and dog guides.
>
>
>> Hello Everyone:
>>
>> Since I have always been a Cane user how would a person who uses a Dog 
>> guide find a trash can or locate a empty seat; like you all have said I 
>> use my cane to locate things by reaching out with it and fealing whats 
>> there.
>>
>>
>> Tia
>>
>>
>> Brian Wekamp
>>
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: Gene Coulter
>> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 3:30 PM
>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] you and dog guides.
>>
>>
>> Julie,
>> Bravo. I like what you said very much and Fred made some good points. If 
>> I
>> didn’t have other plans this weekend it would have fun to attend the
>> seminar.
>> Gene
>> From: Julie McGinnity
>> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 2:16 PM
>> To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] you and dog guides.
>>
>> Hello Fred,
>>
>> I would like to address some of the points you have made about using
>> dog guides.  For those of you who don't know, I have been a guide dog
>> user for over 4 years.  In no way does this make me an expert, but I
>> have experienced some of these things that Fred brings up.  Of course,
>> in many cases, I have experienced the contrary.
>>
>> Yes, sometimes people don't want my dog in the car/house/whatever.  It
>> hasn't happened to me much, but when it does, not only do I offer to
>> bring a towel for her to lay on in the car, I groom her a little extra
>> that day.  It generally helps.  Some people are afraid of dogs, but in
>> my experience, most people calm down once they see that the dog is
>> working and won't bother them.  Yes, some of these things are
>> inconvenient.
>>
>> My dog and I are a team.  I am proud of being a team.  I can read her
>> slightest movements, and she can sense my mood.  We know each other
>> very well.  It's a wonderful feeling to have this bond.
>>
>> I would like to address your book now.  I agree completely that a
>> person needs to become proficient with a cane before applying for a
>> guide dog.  The schools acknowledge this fact as well.
>>
>> I believe that it is personal preference whether or not you prefer a
>> cane or dog when navigating an environment.  I have actually found
>> that my orientation skills improved after I got a dog.  My mental
>> mapping skills have gotten better because instead of feeling every
>> little thing on the ground, I am able to concentrate on where I am
>> going in a different way.  If I want my dog to show me something, I
>> can usually manage to
>> make that happen.  Some people prefer to use the cane to find things
>> like chairs and trashcans because the cane will hit everything.  I
>> prefer the dog because I don't hit everything.  No tripping people, no
>> hitting every little crack in the sidewalk.
>>
>> "concerning dogs, when I was learning to use a cane, I asked my
>> Mobility instructor whether or not I ought to consider getting a dog
>> guide? He said “no”, that my skills were good enough that I didn’t
>> need one. Turns out he was right."
>>
>> I think it's very important to dispell the notion that guide dogs are
>> for those who are not proficient with canes.  Cane or dog is a choice.
>> I choose a dog because I prefer to travel with one, and you prefer a
>> cane because you prefer to travel with one.  There are many blind and
>> sighted people who believe that because I am a guide dog user, I do
>> not have good cane skills and cannot travel independently with and
>> without a dog.  I understand that there are those who would fall into
>> this catagory, but I believe it is wrong to assume that all guide dog
>> users cannot travel safely with a cane.  One of the goals of the
>> National Association of Guide dog Users is to advocate for the rights
>> of guide dog users.  I also think that one of the most important
>> things the organization should do is dispell these misconceptions and
>> generalizations about those of us who choose a guide dog as our
>> mobility tool.
>>
>> Sorry for such a long email, and thank you for reading.
>> Julie
>> President, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users
>>
>>
>> On 10/26/12, Fred Olver <goodfolks at charter.net> wrote:
>>> So, we're having a seminar on dog guides? An interesting topic to say 
>>> the
>>> least. I do wonder though, why we are not having a seminar on the use of
>>> I-devices, an item which offers more flexability and perhapse more 
>>> options
>>> in terms of offering independence to a much larger segment of our
>>> population/group. Let me say first of all that dogs are wonderful 
>>> animals.
>>> I
>>> have two of them as pets. They each weigh about 40 pounds and help me to
>>> get
>>> some much-needed exercise on a daily basis. I decided to write this 
>>> piece
>>> because I am concerned from the perspective of a former dog-user about 
>>> the
>>> whole concept of your using a dog as a guide for the first time if you 
>>> are
>>> considering doing so. There are some things I personally think you need 
>>> to
>>> know that you probably won't hear at the seminar this Saturday. First of
>>> all, there's a good chance that some of your friends won't want your dog
>>> in
>>> their car, especially if it's wet. Some folks just don't want to deal 
>>> with
>>> the whole issue of dog-hair and unless you are able to sit in the front
>>> seat, there may not be enough room for your dog in the back, on the 
>>> floor
>>> where it should be. Secondly, although it is against the law, there are
>>> some
>>> cab drivers who will be unwilling to transport you and your dog because 
>>> of
>>> their religious beliefs. Third your dog isn't always going to relieve
>>> itself
>>> on cue. There may be times when your dog decides to take a dump in a 
>>> mall
>>> or
>>> public building and you will need to clean it up. You will no longer be 
>>> an
>>> individual. You will be a team, and chances are that Fourth, at some 
>>> point
>>> people are going to walk up to you and speak to the dog first. Five,
>>> sometimes, people may even feed your dog, or your dog may pick up some
>>> food
>>> from the floor when you are in a restaurant. Six, people are going to 
>>> want
>>> to pet your dog, and my experience tells me that although you might want
>>> to
>>> make lots of friends and a dog is a good way to do so, that if your dog 
>>> is
>>> in harness you ought not let anyone pet your dog not ever, while it is
>>> working. If you do, once, than your dog may think it is okay for folks 
>>> to
>>> do
>>> that on a regular basis and begin asking for attention without your even
>>> knowing it.
>>>
>>> Some folks feel that because they have dogs as guides that they ought to
>>> be
>>> entitled to reduced rates for shots and other services from their
>>> veterinarian. At one time there used to be a tax credit for folks who 
>>> make
>>> use of a dog guide although aI don't know that is true at this time. 
>>> Some
>>> schools may offer assistance to extremely ill dogs, however you should
>>> expect that if your dog gets hurt that you need to be responsible to pay
>>> the
>>> vet bills. In other words, if your dog gets hurt, you should not expect
>>> someone else to pick up the tab  just because you are blind.
>>>
>>> Some folks are going to be afraid of your dog, just because it is a dog.
>>> Your dog is not your child and should not be treated as such. It is a 
>>> very
>>> loving animal, but it is also a tool which will allow you independence
>>> however if not handled properly it can become a burden, a miss-behaving
>>> child and more trouble than it is worth. Some people feel they must take
>>> their dog absolutely everywhere, some show more common sense and have
>>> determined that a baseball stadium or a bar are not good places for a 
>>> dog.
>>> Make sure you use common sense when working your dog. Is it really
>>> necessary
>>> to inconvenience others so you can use your dog when you could give it a
>>> break and use your cane? After all, this whole independence thing, isn't
>>> it
>>> interdependence, and knowing when to allow yourself to rely on others at
>>> appropriate times? If you are going to make use of a dog guide, and I 
>>> use
>>> this term because Guide Dogs is the name of an organization, you need to
>>> keep up your cane skills. You also need to let others feed your dog say
>>> once
>>> a week, and you need to give yourself time away from your dog, because 
>>> if
>>> you don't, your dog may bond itself so much that it might not choose to
>>> eat
>>> when others attempt to give the dog it's dinner when you are away.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Below is a piece from my book Dealing With Vision Loss which can be 
>>> found
>>> at
>>> http://www.dealingwithvisionloss.com  some folks will disagree with what 
>>> I
>>> have said and what is said below, it is after all my own opinion. What
>>> matters though here, is that if you are going to consider getting a dog
>>> for
>>> use as a guide that you understand as much as possible some of the
>>> ramifications of doing so. The good and the bad.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> YOU AND DOG GUIDES
>>>
>>> I just can’t tell you how many times I have been asked “how come you don’t
>>> have a seeing eye dog?” Well, there are lots of reasons, but the fact 
>>> is,
>>> that most sighted people look at dog guides as “Wonder-dogs.” When in
>>> reality, if you don’t know how to get some place, how are you going to
>>> tell
>>> your dog to get you there? When you look at the list of resources in 
>>> this
>>> book, you will not find any dog guide schools listed. There is a 
>>> specific
>>> reason for that. Most schools which train people who are blind to make 
>>> use
>>> of dog guides like those individuals to be proficient in use of a cane,
>>> FIRST. Consequently, whether you want to use a cane or not, if you are
>>> thinking about getting a dog you need to learn to use a cane first.
>>>
>>> My own experience has taught me that, while using a dog guide, my
>>> orientation skills, that is to say that my skills of “knowing where I 
>>> was
>>> in
>>> relation to my environment” deteriorated. I was relying on my dog, as I
>>> was
>>> supposed to, so much, that I inadvertently became less aware of what was
>>> around me. Partly because I was not using my cane to be able to know 
>>> that
>>> that trash can or bench was there, because my dog guide was taking me
>>> around
>>> it, as he was supposed to, but I found that when I didn’t have my dog 
>>> with
>>> me that getting around, maintaining my orientation and being mobile was 
>>> a
>>> much more difficult proposition than with a dog and that in order for me
>>> to
>>> be able to maintain my orientation skills that I needed to stop using a
>>> dog.
>>> Over the years, dog guide schools have modified their stand on using 
>>> canes
>>> and dogs. Used to be when you would go to the school, they would take 
>>> your
>>> cane away from you. Now, some schools encourage folks to use their canes
>>> in
>>> unfamiliar areas, or in order to help you to determine where you are in
>>> relation to objects around you. A footnote to these comments
>>>
>>> concerning dogs, when I was learning to use a cane, I asked my Mobility
>>> instructor whether or not I ought to consider getting a dog guide? He 
>>> said
>>> “no”, that my skills were good enough that I didn’t need one. Turns out 
>>> he
>>> was right.
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Julie McG
>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind
>> of Missouri recording secretary,
>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>> and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind
>>
>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> life."
>> John :316
>>
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>
>
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