[Nfbmo] The bus Saga Continues.

David Andrews dandrews at visi.com
Sun Feb 17 01:03:05 UTC 2013

You are probably right that I shouldn't comment -- and I don't know 
if services in Missouri are good or bad.  But, I did comment because 
the person in question has been doing this for years, on numerous NFB 
lists.  That goes beyond venting.


At 06:46 PM 2/16/2013, you wrote:
>Maybe people who don't know about Missouri shouldn't say whether or 
>not Missouri's Rehab Services for the Blind is good or bad.
>I have never had a negative attitude in my life, and have ben 
>through several life threatening diseases and other horrible 
>events.  Not to say others haven't I'm just saying.
>If people want to vent and complain then they should be allowed to do so.
>Missouri has never been known for good Rehab Services for the Blind, 
>and I have been screwed myself more times then I can count.
>I'm just saying that people who don't know what's going on maybe 
>shouldn't comment.
> >>> David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> 02/16/13 17:27 PM >>>
>I for one am getting tired of your constant stream of messages, on
>many of our lists, about how the big bad rehab agency in Missouri
>favors others and picks on you.  I am not from Missouri, so have no
>way of knowing what happened, but your harping about it here isn't
>going to change anything.  Further, if you got a bum deal, maybe it
>is because of your constant negative attitude.
>At 11:39 PM 2/15/2013, you wrote:
> >hi,
> >
> >if you want an example of a monopoly, a familiar state agency which
> >uses a certain vendor 90% of the time, has put other vendors out of
> >business, and sent one back to his original state is a monopoly!
> >Bryan Schulz
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message ----- From: <DanFlasar at aol.com>
> >To: <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> >Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 11:26 PM
> >Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] The bus Saga Continues.
> >
> >
> >>Strictly speaking, a municipal or state or  federal public service is not
> >>a monopoly since these are not   for-profit organizations.  If all the
> >>airlines combined into one big  private or publicly (in the sense of stock
> >>availability) -ownership, then that  would be a monopoly.   Or if
> >>Comcast finally
> >>owns all the cable   networks, then they would be monopoly.  Classically, a
> >>monopoly restricts  competition.  A government-managed utility or transit
> >>system is a different  category.  The big difference - we have a way to
> >>change or modify a  government utility - we have no way to do so
> >>with a private
> >>company.
> >>   And yes, this all gets very complicated  and far from  clear.
> >>Dan
> >>
> >>
> >>In a message dated 2/15/2013 5:18:59 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> >>dickmorris at netzero.net writes:
> >>
> >>Hi,  Dan,
> >>
> >>As far as I know, most bus companies are monopolies. Even back in  the day,
> >>although the Delaware Coach Company was privately owned, it had a
> >>franchise
> >>to run all bus service in Wilmington, Delaware. Another company  had the
> >>franchise to run buses out where I lived. And of course, you  couldn't
> >>transfer between bus lines (sigh). So even back then, bus service  was a
> >>monopoly. Of course now Delaware has a transit authority: there was  a
> >>three-month drivers' strike in 1967 (I don't recall the issue), and a year
> >>after it was settled, Delaware Coach pulled out, and the city created  a
> >>transit authority which eventually became DART First State.
> >>
> >>I  think you'd have to go back to the early streetcar era to find a
> >>situation
> >>in which multiple companies ran transit services in a particular city. I
> >>don't know if there's a book that covers bus transit deregulation in the
> >>way
> >>that Hard Landing did for airlines.
> >>
> >>I guess it's obvious that  transit and transit marketing are two of my
> >>favorite subjects. And it's  probably also obvious that I should let this
> >>subject die until there's  more action in  Springfield.
> >>
> >>Dick
> >>
> >>--------------------------------------------------
> >>From:  <DanFlasar at aol.com>
> >>Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 3:38 PM
> >>To:  <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> >>Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] The bus Saga  Continues.
> >>
> >>So much for the idea that the Free Market solves all  problems.
> >>
> >>Without intervention by the will of the  people   (ie, our government),
> >>free market capitalism leads  inexorably to monopoly -  which is why
> >>government has had to intervene  so continuously over the years  - which
> >>leads to too
> >>much  regulation which leads to too much deregulation  which leads  to...
> >>You'd think we'd remember this.
> >>Dan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>In a message  dated 2/15/2013 3:25:42 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> >>dickmorris at netzero.net  writes:
> >>
> >>Matt and  Gary,
> >>
> >>At least Springfield and Columbia  have bus stations in 
> town!  Matt, I don't
> >>know about where you are.  But here in Tahlequah, the bus  depot sits
> >>abandoned; I don't know  when the last bus rolled through here,  but it was
> >>before I came in  2004. Our closest bus station is 
> Muskogee,  about 25 miles
> >>away, and  taking a bus from there is like flying out of  Springfield,  in
> >>that
> >>you'll go to a "hub" city like Tulsa or OKC and  change  there. 
> And Tulsa is
> >>sixty miles from here.
> >>
> >>Isn't  deregulation  wonderful? Just for grins, if you want an analysis of
> >>what   deregulation has done to the airline industry, read  Thomas
> >>Petzinger's
> >>Hard Landing. Petzinger writes for the Wall Street  Journal, and the book
> >>is
> >>both interesting and   readable.
> >>
> >>Dick
> >>
> >>--------------------------------------------------
> >>From:   "Matt Sievert" <matt.sievert at gmail.com>
> >>Sent: Friday, February  15,  2013 3:10 PM
> >>To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List"   <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> >>Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] The bus Saga   Continues.
> >>
> >>Now,
> >>
> >>Megabus and the michigan flyer have all  been  successes.
> >>
> >>Matt
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: "Gary  Wunder"  <gwunder at earthlink.net>
> >>Sender: "Nfbmo"   <nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org>
> >>Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013  15:03:59
> >>To:  'NFB of Missouri Mailing  List'<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> >>Reply-To: NFB of  Missouri Mailing List  <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> >>Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] The bus  Saga  Continues.
> >>
> >>When I sometimes ride the bus I get the impression  they  will run their
> >>busses until they run no more and then they'll  stop serving  us all
> >>together.
> >>It is not the service-oriented  company I used to ride  regularly.
> >>
> >>-----Original  Message-----
> >>From: Nfbmo  [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf  Of Dick Morris
> >>Sent: Friday,  February 15, 2013 12:59 PM
> >>To: NFB of  Missouri Mailing List
> >>Subject: Re:  [Nfbmo] The bus Saga  Continues.
> >>
> >>Matt, the big problem with Greyhound is  that they have  had no real
> >>competition ever since they acquired Continental   Trailways in the early
> >>90s,
> >>and thereby gutted the Trailways network.  It  reminds me of the 
> old, before
> >>the breakup, AT&T commercial  slogan, "We  may be the only phone company in
> >>town, but we try not to  act like it." Epic  fail on the parts of both AT&T
> >>and  Greyhound.
> >>
> >>Speaking of lack  of competition, think of what air  travel will be like
> >>once
> >>American and  USAir complete their   merger.
> >>
> >>Dick
> >>
> >>--------------------------------------------------
> >>From:   "Matt Sievert" <matt.sievert at gmail.com>
> >>Sent: Friday, February  15,  2013 7:40 AM
> >>To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List"   <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> >>Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] The bus Saga   Continues.
> >>
> >>Dick,
> >>
> >>Thank you for correcting me. Mrs. Cruise  did  the best she could with the
> >>bus
> >>system. She even ran multiple  buses on the  same route during holiday
> >>weekends, because the mall was  so backed up. I  never used access express,
> >>because I didn't qualify,  so I can't speak for  that service.
> >>
> >>As for Norna Champion. She has  a school and a park named  after her.
> >>
> >>Greyhound is horrible for  everyone. For blind people, for servicemen/women
> >>going to Fort  Leonard, and everyone in  between.
> >>
> >>Greyhound drives me to be a  more successful person. So I can  bypass that
> >>nastyness, by prtivate  leased car trips or airline  travel.
> >>
> >>I will NEVER advocate  greyhound to anyone. They really don't  care about
> >>their  customers.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>-----Original  Message-----
> >>From: "Dick  Morris" <dickmorris at netzero.net>
> >>Sender:  "Nfbmo"  <nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org>
> >>Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013   03:45:09
> >>To: NFB of Missouri Mailing   List<nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> >>Reply-To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List   <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> >>Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] The bus Saga   Continues.
> >>
> >>Matt, her name is Carol Cruise, and she has retired--but  she  was always
> >>willing to listen to her customers. From what Gary  tells me, 
> the  buses are
> >>full now, probably thanks to $3  gasoline.
> >>
> >>But...you are  absolutely right about the "second class  citizen" attitude.
> >>Maybe you  remember Dr. Norma Champion. I had her  in several classes at
> >>Evangel when I  got my communications degree  back in the dark ages. As a
> >>state senator,  well...I was at a Jeff  City seminar, I forget which year,
> >>and
> >>of course I  met with her to  push NFB issues. One was a transit issue, and
> >>her response  was that  public transit was for "someone like 
> you". I think I
> >>bit my tongue   till it bled. She was losing her vision due to macular
> >>degeneration, but  I  never could get her to see our side of things. Sad
> >>but
> >>true.
> >>
> >>And  which Greyhound station were you referring to?  The old one on St.
> >>Louis
> >>or  the new one on East Kearney? My problems  were more with rude Greyhound
> >>drivers than anything else, but the  last time I rode the 
> bus,  about a year
> >>ago, I had a good  experience--except for a bus that was three  hours late.
> >>Oh,  well...can't have   everything.
> >>
> >>Dick
> >>--------------------------------------------------
> >>From:   "Matt Sievert" <matt.sievert at gmail.com>
> >>Sent: Thursday, February  14,  2013 8:11 PM
> >>To: "NFB of Missouri Mailing List"   <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> >>Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] The bus Saga   Continues.
> >>
> >>Sigh,
> >>
> >>I am glad I am not in   Springfield.
> >>
> >>Public Transportation in Springfield, Missouri has  always  been a
> >>"second-class" citizen issue. "only poor people and the  elderly ride  the
> >>bus." is what I heard from most folks.
> >>
> >>Also  seeing empty buses  driving around town didn't help any  either.
> >>
> >>Mary Cruse did a lot to  help out the transit issue. I  don't 
> know where she
> >>went, but obviously by  Gary's, account, things  have not improved.
> >>
> >>The only thing worse in  Springfield, Mo than  the public transit 
> system, is
> >>the Greyhound  station.
> >>
> >>My  primary means of transportation in Springfield, Mo was a  cab or
> >>walking.
> >>Only when I worked at St. John's was the bus useful, that  is  because the
> >>#2
> >>S. National went past the hospital on weekdays, and  the  #5 went by on
> >>weekends. Besides that, the bus was a headache I  did not  want.
> >>
> >>Matt Sievert
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at  9:02 PM, Dick  Morris  <dickmorris at netzero.net>
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>>Good job, Erin and   Gary! I wish I were still in Springfield so I could
> >>be
> >>>part of  this.  You're dooing the right thing in trying to  garner
> >>publicity;
> >>>sometimes  the only way to get action is to  embarrass somebody. Go for
> >>it!
> >>>
> >>>Dick
> >>>
> >>>   --------------------------------------------------
> >>>From: "Magoon  Erin"  <magoone at gary-springfield-mo.net>
> >>>Sent: Thursday,  February 14,  2013 6:11 PM
> >>>To: <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> >>>  Subject: [Nfbmo] The  bus Saga Continues.
> >>>
> >>>The Bus Saga  Continues.
> >>>
> >>>  Gary and I went to the City Council meeting  on Monday.  He spoke about
> >>the
> >>>fixed route buses and I spoke  about Access Express.  Access  is the
> >>>para-transit door to  door service that I'm riding for now  because of my
> >>>surgery last  October.
> >>>
> >>>It is getting  pretty rediculous trying to get a  ride on Access.  They
> >>will
> >>>only  let you schedule a ride  up to one week in advance and it's getting
> >>>  difficult to do  so.  They also have a 20 minute window either side of
> >>your
> >>>  pick-up to come and get you.  I had a pickup at 6:00 pm and  they didn't
> >>>have
> >>>the person come on duty who was going to get   me until 5:55 so he didn't
> >>>arrive until 6:20.
> >>>
> >>>I  had  another person drop me off at the wrong entrance to my building
> >>in
> >>>  my
> >>>apaartment complex. I couldn't get a ride home  from my job  developer
> >>until
> >>>two hours after the end of my  appointment.  I  couldn't get a ride home
> >>>from
> >>>the  gym at all, I could get  there but not home.  I also called one week
> >>in
> >>>advance of the  City Council meeting to schedule my  ride.  I scheduled it
> >>>  for
> >>>10:30 pm because I didn't  know how long the meeting would go and  they
> >>set
> >>>it
> >>>  up.  The lady called me back ten minutes  later and said she looked  at
> >>the
> >>>schedule wrong.  "It's written  in military time and  I have trouble
> >>reading
> >>>and understanding  it.  The latest  we can get you is 8:30 not 10:30."
> >>>
> >>>I told  the Council  most of what I've just told you and they sent the
> >>>  following  questions to City Utilities telling them they wanted answers
> >>by
> >>>  Friday, February 22.
> >>>
> >>>1. Why did you make the bus  route  changes?
> >>>2. Why didn't you have the schedules and maps ready   before the changes
> >>>took
> >>>effect?
> >>>3. Why didn't you  hold  a public hearing or have public comments before
> >>you
> >>>made  the  changes?
> >>>4. Why did the routes change 3 and 4 times after  you made the  original
> >>>changes?
> >>>5. Is it true that you  didn't want the  passengers to know the changes
> >>were
> >>>coming?  If so, why not?
> >>>6.  Why are people having so many difficulties  scheduling an Access
> >>Express
> >>>ride 6 and 7 days in  advance?
> >>>
> >>>I called the  City Council yesterday to find out  what was the next step,
> >>>that's when  I got told those questions  were sent to City Utilities and
> >>as
> >>>soon as  they received a  response they'd call me.
> >>>
> >>>Today a reporter from  The  Springfield Newsleader called.  He talked to
> >>>both
> >>>  me  and Gary about what has been going on.  I told him all about  Access
> >>and
> >>>that some of the buses arrive downtown five minutes  early now  because of
> >>>the
> >>>new schedule, and the bus route  that was added  sits in the Social
> >>Security
> >>>parking lot for 15  minutes.  No one  has explained why this is.
> >>>
> >>>The  paper got a report from City  Utilities telling them that the number
> >>of
> >>>riders on Access has  increased and that they have 5  buses.  I told the
> >>>reporter that  several people I have  spoken to said they are taking
> >>Access
> >>>because of  all the route  changes.
> >>>
> >>>He said that City Utilities has  responded to  City Council and said: "We
> >>>should have had the bus maps  and  schedules available when we made the
> >>>route
> >>>changes, we   will hold public hearings in the future for any change we
> >>want
> >>>to  make  whether it's small or big."
> >>>
> >>>I noticed that they  didn't answer  any of the questions City  Council
> >>asked.
> >>>
> >>>The article is  supposed to run in  tomorrow's paper.  I hope it makes a
> >>>   difference.

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