[NFBP-Talk] Roundabout dispute

Fri Mar 15 15:53:32 UTC 2019

Connie: 

You are indeed the former Connie Johnson I thought you were until I saw your
last name. So it makes me happy to hear from you again! 

You are quite right that roundabouts in rural settings are generally not a
problem for blind people to manage. In a city setting however, it truly is
necessary to install an actual traffic light to go along with the
push-button in order to allow us to safely cross. When I worked in
Kalamazoo, we were successful in getting the city to install stop lights
with the walk buttons. How ridiculous that Penn DOT would be surprised to
find blind people who are not satisfied with a blinking sign telling them to
look both ways.   

Honestly, it is really a shame that the ADA does not cover roundabout
crossings adequately. Let me review the law and regulations to make sure
this is the case.

Hugs,

Chris

From: NFBP-Talk <nfbp-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Connie via
NFBP-Talk
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2019 10:30 AM
To: 'NFB of Pennsylvania Talk, state list' <nfbp-talk at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Connie <conniej1250 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NFBP-Talk] Roundabout dispute

Hi Chris, 

Thank you so much for your response. 

It's been a long time. You knew me as Connie Johnson. Hope you are well.

You hit exactly on my point. 

Yes, there is an audible signal so a blind person can find the button for
the blinking light sign. 

However, all the button does is start the light flashing and activates the
message, Caution, look both ways before crossing, cars may not stop.

We tried to get them to install a stop light, then crossing would be no
problem. 

But they would not stop traffic for anything. 

So, my point is that all this signage makes it nice and safe for sighted
people to cross, but, since I cannot see the cars, crossing would be like
Russian roulette. 

It's terrifying.

Thank you.

Connie Scheu 

From: NFBP-Talk <nfbp-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
<mailto:nfbp-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> > On Behalf Of christine Boone via
NFBP-Talk
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2019 11:05 AM
To: 'NFB of Pennsylvania Talk, state list' <nfbp-talk at nfbnet.org
<mailto:nfbp-talk at nfbnet.org> >
Cc: christine Boone <christineboone2 at gmail.com
<mailto:christineboone2 at gmail.com> >
Subject: Re: [NFBP-Talk] Roundabout dispute

Greetings Connie and All, 

As a former O&M instructor and former director of the Pennsylvania Bureau of
Blindness and Visual Services, I have read this post with great interest. 

First, I commend the Erie chapter for your dedication to this issue and for
taking positive action in visiting the roundabout with the channel 12 and 24
news crew. That was great stuff. You also did an excellent thing in filing
your complaint. 

I do have a couple of questions: 

  The Penn DOT letter says: "There was no resolution because you believe the
warning  beacons signage and other treatments do not provide adequate
protection."

To that I say.well it seems natural to me that a sign telling pedestrians to
look both ways before crossing an intersection would not adequately protect
a blind pedestrian. Even if that sign were audible, or otherwise fully
accessible to the blind traveler, using one's eyes to look both ways is of
little consequence in affording protection when one cannot see any better by
turning one's head to look in both directions. Neither is it easy to hear
which cars are turning into your path at a roundabout where the whole idea
is for cars to keep moving at a steady pace whether they are exiting the
roundabout or continuing to the next intersecting street. 

The Penn DOT letter also says that painted crosswalks, street lighting
above the pedestrian crossing advanced warning signs, and Pedestrian
crossing signs in advance  of all crosswalks have been installed at the
roundabout in question. I do not believe any of these assistive devices
would assist a blind traveler. However, I am more optimistic about the
accessible pedestrian signals with push-buttons that were also listed as
having been installed there. Can you tell me about these? 

Can a blind pedestrian locate the buttons to activate a red light for cars
and a walk light for pedestrians? Do those signals actually work to stop the
cars and allow a blind person to cross safely? If these things have happened
at that roundabout, then your work has paid off big-time. But if a blind
pedestrian cannot locate the "walk" button, or if the crossing signals
themselves do not work, there is more to be done! 

Thank you for raising this excellent issue. I look forward to hearing from
you about the actual functioning of the ADA accommodations that Penn DOT
says it has installed. 

With warmest regards to all,

Chris Boone 

Christine L. Boone, Legislative Coordinator 

National Federation of the Blind of Nebraska 

Phone: 269-329-8500     Email: christineboone2 at gmail.com
<mailto:christineboone2 at gmail.com> 

From: NFBP-Talk <nfbp-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
<mailto:nfbp-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> > On Behalf Of Connie via NFBP-Talk
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2019 8:16 PM
To: 'NFB of Pennsylvania Talk, state list' <nfbp-talk at nfbnet.org
<mailto:nfbp-talk at nfbnet.org> >
Cc: Connie <conniej1250 at gmail.com <mailto:conniej1250 at gmail.com> >
Subject: [NFBP-Talk] Roundabout dispute

Is anyone else in PA dealing with a roundabout issue?

Penn DOT, background 

In 2013 Passle and I were both living in Fairview.

Passle asked me to join her at the meetings regarding the proposed
roundabout at Westlake Rd and Millfair Roads. At these meetings, We
expressed our concerns about crossing at the roundabout. 

Passle lives near this roundabout and must cross there in order to get the
bus.

After hearing their proposal, I said.So, I, using a white cane and not being
able to see the traffic, should just cross the street and trust that cars
will stop for me? I received no real answer. 

So, the roundabout was installed as they had predicted.

On October 12, 2018 Passle, Wendi, Dave and I met with channels 12 and 24 at
the roundabout. With cameras watching, we crossed the roundabout a couple
times. Let me tell you that it is a very scary experience. Channel 12's
camera caught and showed a car nearly hit Passle. Passle has nearly been hit
at least once more that I know of. And, she must cross in order to get the
bus. 

FYI, cars do not slow down there. In the short time we were there, Wendi
observed 2 almost accidents between cars going to fast in the roundabout.

When the blinking signs work they say something like, 

Caution, look both ways before crossing, cars may not stop. 

Let me tell you, that does not make me feel good about crossing since I
can't see the cars. 

Also, note that as they are going around, the noise level is such that there
is no way to determine if a car is aimed at me. 

So, December 7, on behalf of our chapter, I filed a grievance with Penn DOT.
I recently received their response.

I have scanned this letter and I have posted it below. Please read it. 

As you read it, please keep in mind that more roundabouts are proposed
including on our Bay Front Highway which is more populated. 

How does this make you feel? 

My feeling is that if I lived near that roundabout, that my fear of crossing
there would prevent me from taking the bus. That the roundabout has
therefore taken away an important transportation option and limited my
rights as a blind person. 

However, roundabouts are fine in rural settings.

Please read and let me know how you feel.

We are planning to take further action.

Pennsylvania  

DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION  

February 22, 2019  

Ms. Connie Scheu    Erie, PA 16509  

RE:     ADA Grievance  

Fairview Township  Roundabout Pedestrian Access  

Dear Ms. Scheu:  

This is in response to your December 7, 2018, ADA Grievance with the
Pennsylvania  Department of Transportation (PennDOT) regarding blind
pedestrians crossing the single lane  roundabout that is located at West
Lake Road and Millfair Road in Fairview Township.  

This roundabout was recently installed to help relieve traffic congestion
and reduce  traffic crashes at the intersection. It also serves to calm
traffic (reduce vehicle speed) traveling  along West Lake Road, which will
improve pedestrian safety.  

Roundabouts are a more efficient way of managing traffic than a signalized
intersection.  They also reduce fuel consumption (minimal to zero idle
time), reduce the amount of land  needed for the intersection (maintains
full access to Aris Drive), eliminates signal maintenance  and reduces
serious/fatal vehicular accidents by more than 75%. Over forty roundabouts
have  been installed on State Roads in Pennsylvania since 2005, and there
have been zero fatalities and  zero serious injuries (including pedestrians)
at these locations.  

PennDOT's District 1-0 ADA Coordinator, along with PennDOT's Statewide ADA
Coordinator, conducted an investigation. The District 1-0 ADA Coordinator
met with you to  attempt an informal resolution. There was no resolution
because you believe the warning  beacons signage and other treatments do not
provide adequate protection.  

PennDOT has been engaging the public regarding the project to improve
operation and  safety of the intersection of West Lake and Millfair since
2013. There has been significant  discussion with the disabled community
about the challenges associated with crossing in  roundabouts.  

Bureau of Project Delivery - Administration 1400 North Street - 7th Floor
Harrisburg, PA 17120 I 717-787-5023

Ms. Connie Scheu  Erie, PA 16509  February 22, 2019  Page 2  

As a result, PennDOT added the following, unrequired, treatments to the
roundabout:  Accessible Pedestrian Signals (APS) pushbuttons for pedestrians
to activate a crossing signal,  video detection to activate the pedestrian
crossing signal, painted crosswalks, street lighting  above the pedestrian
crossing advanced warning signs, and Pedestrian crossing signs in advance
of all crosswalks.  

.    Before the roundabout on West Lake Drive, there was nothing to reduce  

the speed of vehicles through the intersection. There were no painted
crosswalks, lighting or Pedestrian Crossing warning signs.  

The roundabout complies with national highway design guidelines (the  AASHTO
Green Book and PROWAG for ADA accessibility). The national  standards do not
require signals, lighting, signage, or pushbuttons  at single-lane
roundabouts.  

. The roundabout provides safer pedestrian crossings than ever before
existed.  

As a result of this investigation, PennDOT has determined that the West Lake
Road and  Millfair Road roundabout meets its intended design purpose by
relieving traffic congestion,  reducing vehicle speed and reducing the risk
of serious injuries or fatalities. The video detection  for the flashing
lights was adjusted and the lights now function properly. The roundabout
design  was modified to address concerns that were raised prior to
construction. It is ADA compliant,  meets national standards, and improves
pedestrian crossing safety. PennDOT believes that it has  provided the best
solution, at this location, for all concerned.  

PennDOT strives to provide the best possible transportation projects for
every location.  We are also committed to meeting the needs of all roadway
users. Working with Local  Municipalities and concerned citizens is one way
we can identify opportunities to improve the  roadway network.  

If you are dissatisfied with our handling of your concern, you may file a
complaint  directly with the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) or the
United States Department of  Justice or any other appropriate state or
federal agency.  

Thank you for taking the time to convey your thoughts on this project.  

Since ,  , L  

fltia. 1.$  

VanKirk, P.E.  

IAD Coordinator  of Pennsylvania Department of Transportation  

Bureau of Project Delivery - Administration 1400 North Street - 7th Floor,
Harrisburg, PA 17120 1717-787-5023

*** Prior to this roundabout there was a traffic light and no problem for a
blind person to cross. Now, since we must look both ways, only a sighted
person can cross.

Your thoughts please.

Thanks 

Connie 

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