[nfbwatlk] Perkins Braillers

Sun Sep 19 00:35:59 UTC 2010

I am a firm believer in the huge potential, the so far largely unrealized
potential, of refreshable braille and computer portable and transmittable
braille, and think they should be more strenuously developed, funded,
pursued and promoted.

However, I see no reason to disparage the basics, like slate and stylus or
Perkins.  There's absolutely no reason to pit one against the other.
They're not competing against one another.

Whatever someone finds useful is fine and valid.  And I'm hearing that a
lot of people, most people, who are perfectly conversant with and are
using more advanced technology fully, still have lots of good uses for
those more basic tools.

And I think the stylus and pencil analogy is valid.  Most sighted people
today are extremely immersed in their information technology.  But they
would at the same time think it absurd and unnecessary to question or
dismiss their simultaneous use of pencil or pen and paper where they find
them useful and convenient to hand.

It's not an either or, one good one bad, issue.

Cheers,

Rick

On Sat, 18 Sep 2010, Dean Martineau wrote:

> All right, I can't resist, or at least, I'm not going to.
>
> I'm glad I know how to use a slate and stylus, and I know where it is.  I
> haven't used it, or not often,  in five years.
>
> I'm sure the school for the blind in the third world country where my good
> old Perkins now lives uses a lot more than I was using it, which was not at
> all since I don't write or read paper braille.
>
> If I had to build a label system now, I don't know if I would use braille or
> Digit-Eyes for the iPhone.  I would have to look at Digit-Eyes and then make
> the decision.  the slate would work if I had to use it.
>
> I use braille daily, often a lot daily, but all electronic.
>
> The attempt to compare the slate and stylus to a pencil is not quite
> accurate, in my opinion, since even the fastest slate users can't write as
> fast as pencil writers and we can't read the output of a pencil.  If
> electronic braille was easily available, and there is no reason why it
> should not be, we wouldn't have to resort to mechanical solutions.  Yes,
> people still use their pencils and pens, but they use them a lot less than
> they used to as those things which one used to have to resort to mechanical
> writing to achieve can now be done better on the phones.
>
> During the nearly 520 weeks that I have abandoned use of paper braille for
> electronic braille, there might have been 15 weeks when I did not have my
> system due to maintenance reasons.  I actually don't think the number is
> that high.  Those times are unquestionably a drag, and speak not to
> reverting to inferior paper braille, but rather to getting more electronic
> braille access.  those maintenances have also cost money, which is a drag
> too but luckily I've had it, and again, I want to see much more electronic
> braille access rather than giving people excuses to move backward, or not to
> try moving forward.  During the other 500 or so weeks, I can achieve things
> with my electronic braille system that anybody without one cannot du.  (Try
> carrying around 500 volumes of braille at a time on the bus, or getting the
> facilitators of your next workshop to casually e-mail you the handouts in
> advance so you can fully participate in the workshop with no effort on the
> part of the instructor, to name two areas.)
>
> Dean
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Alco Canfield
> Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 3:18 PM
> To: NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Perkins Braillers
>
> Coni, All,
>
> I just tell people that the slate and stylus is like a pencil. "You wouldn't
> want to do without your pencil, now, would you?" I ask. That usually gets
> the point across. No one would usually carry a typewriter, but would find a
> pencil or pen much more portable.
>
> Alco
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mary Ellen <gabias at telus.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 2:45 PM
> To: 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List' <nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Perkins Braillers
>
> Thanks to all who have taken the time to respond, either privately or on
> list, to my question concerning the Perkins Brailler. Ben, your article
> about the use of the slate and stylus was part of the inspiration for my
> query. Just as educators and experts abandoned the slate and stylus and the
> Federation has had to fight for its recognition as a valuable tool, I fear
> the unique place of the Perkins Brailler is also not fully understood by
> those making decisions about which technology to recommend or purchase. I
> think we won't have as much trouble explaining the need for the Perkins as
> we continue to have with the slate because it's easy for those not fluent in
> Braille to understand the mechanics of the Perkins. We won't have to listen
> to a lot of silly talk about reversals and how difficult it is to learn.
> I've received enough comments to begin a short article on the topic, but if
> anyone hasn't commented and would like to, please feel free
>   --  particularly if you have what you believe is a specialized or unique
> use for your Brailler.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Prows, Bennett (HHS/OCR)
> Sent: September 15, 2010 2:22 PM
> To: 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Perkins Braillers
>
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> If anybody cares, I too have at least two perkins Braillers.  I even bought
> a new generation Perkins from APH.  (By the way, I'm not impressed with it,
> and would as soon just keep using the older generation).  I use one at the
> Office and mostly Braille notes on it.  I use 5 by 7 cards, and have a whole
> pile, (I'd like to say organized) with case numbers, telephone numbers,
> passwords, etc on them.  I also use 8 and a half by 11 braille paper on the
> newer perkins at the Ofice to write l onger notes that need my attention.
>
> I do of course use my computer and Braille embosser for long documents I
> either draft or review.  At home, I use the Perkins for labeling as also
> mentioned by  Chris, I use it to write notes on important documentnts, and
> even use it for phone numbers, etc.  I wouldn't do without my Perkins.  I
> also refer to an article I once wrote called, "Technology is not the answer"
> to more generally argue that hand written Braille, with either the slate and
> stylus and the Perkins is very important when the technology fails us.
> Besides, sighted folks have never completely given up the pen and pencil.
> So, while an "Underwood" may not generally be in use, old style tools
> haven't been completely abandoned.
>
> Mary Ellen, I took this route to respond, rather than writing to the address
> you gave. Hope this is enough. /s/ Bennett Prows
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Freeman
> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 8:00 PM
> To: nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Perkins Braillers
>
> Mary Ellen:
>
> I have a Braille Sense Plus and a computer. I also have two Perkins
> Braillers, both of which need repairs. I do not own a Braille embosser.
>
> I don't use the Perkins much as I find a refreshable Braille display quite
> satisfactory under most circumstances. However, were I still doing a great
> many math calculations (algebra, calculus, differential equations, page-long
> physics equations and the like), I would accept nothing else except a
> Perkins. Spatial display of math elements (or poetry, for that matter) just
> doesn't work with a refreshable Braille display and blind college students
> are handicapping themselves mightily if they try to do math or other natural
> sciences without use of a Perkins Brailler.
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mary Ellen" <gabias at telus.net>
> To: unknown <gabias at telus.net>
> Date: Monday, Sep 13, 2010 10:23:04
> Subject: [nfbwatlk] Perkins Braillers
>
> >
> >
> > I'm writing to ask what may seem to be an absurd question.
> >
> > Is the Perkins Brailler still a useful piece of equipment?
> >
> > The Perkins is obviously used by blind people who don't have access to
> > advanced Braille technology, but I'm particularly interested in the
> > opinions of those who use computer assisted Braille.
> >
> > Though I have a Braille Lite and an embosser, I wouldn't want to give
> > up my Perkins. Its role has changed for me over the years, but I still
> > find it useful.
> >
> > The question has arisen because of an accommodation assessment I just
> > read. The person doing the assessment described the Perkins as "akin
> > to a 1950's Underwood." He clearly meant to indicate contempt for such
> > an antiquated piece of machinery.
> >
> > Perhaps I'm merely demonstrating my advanced age and Luddite
> > tendencies, but I cringe at the "If it don't have a computer chip, it
> > ain't no good," mentality.
> >
> > I would like to compile a list of ways in which tech savvy blind
> > people still use the Perkins, as well as reasons why people have
> > stopped using it.
> >
> > We're all familiar with "experts" who denigrate the slate and stylus.
> > We've done a very good job of countering their arguments, though the
> > "experts" still aren't listening very well. I believe it may be time
> > for us to pull together information and information on best practice
> > once again. If I'm right in believing the Perkins is still a useful
> > tool, technology consultants need to know it in detail. If I'm wrong,
> > then it's time for me to change my Luddite ways and "get with the
> > program." Please e-mail me at gabias at telus.net with your views.
> >
> > Mary Ellen Gabias _______________________________________________
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