[nfbwatlk] Another device to help us "see"

Mon Jun 22 21:26:54 UTC 2015

Hi, Mary Ellen.

I wholeheartedly agree with you and I use FaceTime occasionally (and the
FaceTime Audio function) and it's pretty secure. And I, too, leave Location
Services on even though I can be tracked, if only because so many apps will
bug you till you turn them on anyway.

But a little prudence goes a long way and with a few precautions, we're
reasonably safe. Frankly, I don't use FB or Twitter but I trust that if you
do, you don't do things like tell people when you leave the house etc. That
way lies a burglary in your future. (grin)

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: nfbwatlk [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mary ellen
via nfbwatlk
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 2:20 PM
To: 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'
Cc: Mary ellen
Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Another device to help us "see"

I've never tried that app.  I have used FaceTime with friends and family if
I needed to know something visual and nobody was home. That gives me the
visual information I need without the dangerous privacy implications you so
correctly point out.

I hadn't thought about how a robot could be hackable.  I have read about
dangers associated with enabling location services on a smart phone.  The
allure of having things like time changes and weather reports updated
without any work has meant that most of us, blind or sighted, let iOS or
Android systems know where we are.  When you think that it's possible to
track where you are at all times, or at least where your phone is, the
thought can be a bit crazy making.  So many of us do it that we as a society
clearly have not considered the implications.

I suppose that, if you're careful, the Be My Eyes app could be useful.  If I
ask a stranger whether there are any spots on my blouse, the primary danger
is that he or she won't tell me the truth.  If I ask that somebody read my
credit card statement, shame on me for being so stupid!  Being a trusting
soul can be a dangerous thing, but being trusting and prudent at the same
time makes sense.

-----Original Message-----
From: nfbwatlk [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike
Freeman via nfbwatlk
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 10:56 AM
To: 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'
Cc: Mike Freeman
Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Another device to help us "see"

Better not have the robo-guide dog be wifi-enabled or it could be hacked
and/or who knows what information could be gathered about you. I realize I
am in the minority within the blindness community but I can't believe all
the enthusiasm, nonsense and drivel that blind persons are putting out about
the Be My Eyes iPhone app! Frankly, I largely think the app is just an
excuse for not planning, e.g., labeling your spices or medicines, but even
worse, the enthusiasts don't seem to have any idea that the "volunteers" who
are reading the video might not have the blind users' best interest at heart
and if information gleaned from helping the blind persons was misused or a
crime committed, very little could be done about it since all the volunteers
aren't citizens of the U.S. or Canada!

In other words, I'm aghast! And no one seems to grock the implications!

Mike Freeman

-----Original Message-----
From: nfbwatlk [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mary ellen
via nfbwatlk
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 10:28 AM
To: 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'
Cc: Mary ellen
Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Another device to help us "see"

I agree that clicking is a very useful means of gathering information.  For
some unaccountable reason, it's been bandied about that NFB is opposed.  I
know there are some individuals who are uncomfortable making clicking sounds
because it makes them feel conspicuous.  As if carrying around five feet of
carbon fiber doesn't set us apart!  NFB is opposed to some of the
sensational press about clicking, particularly when it's implied that
there's no need for a cane anymore.  Daniel Kisch, the person whose name is
most often associated with clicking, is adamant about the importance of the
cane (or the dog) and is as unhappy about some of the sensationalized
publicity as we are.  We have enough real areas of disagreement with others
in the blindness system without creating fake controversy.

I think the tongue stimulator really will end up belonging on the wall next
to the toilet for the blind, though.  How does one speak with a lollypop
sized device in one's mouth?  I would think that, after a significant amount
of time feeling those sensations, the sense of taste would be interfered
with.  I'm not in favor of anything that interferes with the enjoyment of
food, though perhaps I wouldn't need to be in the process of losing weight
if something had! Grin!

Ariel, you make an extremely good point.  If we could develop a reliable
hands free travel aid, I'd ditch my cane in an instant!  I'm proud of all
the cane signifies, but I'd appreciate having two arms for carrying things.
Twenty years ago someone approached me about the development of an
electronic guide dog.  Its purpose would be to avoid obstacles and warn of
changes in terrain such as curbs and drop-offs.  I have very sluggish
reflexes; that means I walk rather slowly because I need a little extra time
to react when my cane gives me information.  One of the things I liked best
about working with my guide dog Mozu was that I could pick up the pace.  The
part I didn't like was the need to figure out what she was thinking and why
she did some of the things she did.  A guide bot would be very stupid and
its logic would be easy to follow.  It wouldn't have the lovable
characteristics of a dog, so I doubt it would decrease the interest in
having dogs as guides.  It would be an interesting alternative to try.  Make
it hands free and I'm applying to be a beta tester! 

-----Original Message-----
From: nfbwatlk [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Becky
Frankeberger via nfbwatlk
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 8:19 AM
To: 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'
Cc: Becky Frankeberger
Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Another device to help us "see"

Don't forget the facial recognition cane. Wall of shame, giggle, I love the
idea. But just make sure it is really useless to the blind, please. 
Something came from the Federation negative about Flash Sonar, aka, tongue
clicks. This has been a useful tool for the blind for ages. You try playing
basketball with a cane, yet those well versed in Flash Sonar can really
play, smile. So make sure the wall of shame has actual useless devices. Say
narrow it to electronic or real tangible devices, like the toilet designed
for the blind President Maher mentioned at National Convention a zillion
years ago.

Becky and her four on the floor Jake
-----Original Message-----
From: nfbwatlk [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mary ellen
via nfbwatlk
Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2015 8:14 PM
To: 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'
Cc: Mary ellen
Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Another device to help us "see"

I think we should create a "Wall of Shame" where these devices could be
displayed.  There's the Sonicguide, the Mowat Sensor, the Stereotoner, and
,oh so many more!

Some devices that originally seemed useless have proven to have some
benefits, but the underlying premise that technology can cause our other
senses to somehow mimic sight is a flawed concept.

The Sonicguide gave information about surrounding objects, but the info
wasn't much better than the echo given back by a cane or a soft tongue
click.  In fact, it was worse, because it was so loud and intrusive that it
masked the subtle sounds that we use all the time.

I believe scientists who develop these things start with the premise that,
without sight, we are totally ignorant of our surroundings and need
artificially created and unnecessarily amplified sensory replacement
mechanisms.

I don't know what to say to reporters who pass along this stuff
uncritically.  How do you tell them that our environmental knowledge is so
much richer than they believe?

Good luck, Marci.

-----Original Message-----
From: nfbwatlk [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marci
Carpenter via nfbwatlk
Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2015 6:01 PM
To: NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List
Cc: Marci Carpenter
Subject: [nfbwatlk] Another device to help us "see"

Here is an article from the June 18 issue of the Washington Post. I missed
it on Newsline but saw a Facebook post about it today from an NFB member. I
groaned at the time. Then I saw a KIN5 news story about it tonight. Of
course they pretty much read the story word for word. I will call them
tomorrow. I would appreciate your thoughts about what I might say and how
you all feel about this.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2015/06/18/fda-approves
-device-to-help-blind-people-see-by-using-their-tongues/
<http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2015/06/18/fda-approve
s-device-to-help-blind-people-see-by-using-their-tongues/>

Marci

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