[nfbwatlk] Another device to help us "see"

Mon Jun 22 21:35:10 UTC 2015

Good afternoon, I along with Mike certainly do not use the above-mentioned application, if I really need something that visually, I trust a family member will more than some person that I don’t know. As far as my bank statement it comes to me in braille, I’ll gladly read my own bank statement myself. I figure that information doesn’t belong in anyone’s hands or anyone’s electronic database. As far as all of the GPS tracking, a few on this list will remember how that actually turned into a good thing. As a general rule that no one really should be careful about which applications are allowed to access that data. I think it was down to common sense blindness in this case has very little to do with the common sense part. Practicing good judgment of what application to use in what particular situation makes a whole lot better sense.

Sincerely Maurice mines.
Amateur radio call sign, kd0iko.
voicemail message number, 505-369-3283.
Note the text of this email that I have directly dictated to the computer I’ve been facilitated via the means of Dragon 4.0 for the Mac, if there are any errors in the text that I have directly dictated to the computer, they may be the result of either the software or the dictation process. If you don’t understand something that I’ve written please ask?
> On Jun 22, 2015, at 3:20 PM, Mary ellen via nfbwatlk <nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> I've never tried that app.  I have used FaceTime with friends and family if
> I needed to know something visual and nobody was home. That gives me the
> visual information I need without the dangerous privacy implications you so
> correctly point out.
> 
> I hadn't thought about how a robot could be hackable.  I have read about
> dangers associated with enabling location services on a smart phone.  The
> allure of having things like time changes and weather reports updated
> without any work has meant that most of us, blind or sighted, let iOS or
> Android systems know where we are.  When you think that it's possible to
> track where you are at all times, or at least where your phone is, the
> thought can be a bit crazy making.  So many of us do it that we as a society
> clearly have not considered the implications.
> 
> I suppose that, if you're careful, the Be My Eyes app could be useful.  If I
> ask a stranger whether there are any spots on my blouse, the primary danger
> is that he or she won't tell me the truth.  If I ask that somebody read my
> credit card statement, shame on me for being so stupid!  Being a trusting
> soul can be a dangerous thing, but being trusting and prudent at the same
> time makes sense.
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbwatlk [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike
> Freeman via nfbwatlk
> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 10:56 AM
> To: 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'
> Cc: Mike Freeman
> Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Another device to help us "see"
> 
> Better not have the robo-guide dog be wifi-enabled or it could be hacked
> and/or who knows what information could be gathered about you. I realize I
> am in the minority within the blindness community but I can't believe all
> the enthusiasm, nonsense and drivel that blind persons are putting out about
> the Be My Eyes iPhone app! Frankly, I largely think the app is just an
> excuse for not planning, e.g., labeling your spices or medicines, but even
> worse, the enthusiasts don't seem to have any idea that the "volunteers" who
> are reading the video might not have the blind users' best interest at heart
> and if information gleaned from helping the blind persons was misused or a
> crime committed, very little could be done about it since all the volunteers
> aren't citizens of the U.S. or Canada!
> 
> In other words, I'm aghast! And no one seems to grock the implications!
> 
> Mike Freeman
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbwatlk [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mary ellen
> via nfbwatlk
> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 10:28 AM
> To: 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'
> Cc: Mary ellen
> Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Another device to help us "see"
> 
> I agree that clicking is a very useful means of gathering information.  For
> some unaccountable reason, it's been bandied about that NFB is opposed.  I
> know there are some individuals who are uncomfortable making clicking sounds
> because it makes them feel conspicuous.  As if carrying around five feet of
> carbon fiber doesn't set us apart!  NFB is opposed to some of the
> sensational press about clicking, particularly when it's implied that
> there's no need for a cane anymore.  Daniel Kisch, the person whose name is
> most often associated with clicking, is adamant about the importance of the
> cane (or the dog) and is as unhappy about some of the sensationalized
> publicity as we are.  We have enough real areas of disagreement with others
> in the blindness system without creating fake controversy.
> 
> I think the tongue stimulator really will end up belonging on the wall next
> to the toilet for the blind, though.  How does one speak with a lollypop
> sized device in one's mouth?  I would think that, after a significant amount
> of time feeling those sensations, the sense of taste would be interfered
> with.  I'm not in favor of anything that interferes with the enjoyment of
> food, though perhaps I wouldn't need to be in the process of losing weight
> if something had! Grin!
> 
> Ariel, you make an extremely good point.  If we could develop a reliable
> hands free travel aid, I'd ditch my cane in an instant!  I'm proud of all
> the cane signifies, but I'd appreciate having two arms for carrying things.
> Twenty years ago someone approached me about the development of an
> electronic guide dog.  Its purpose would be to avoid obstacles and warn of
> changes in terrain such as curbs and drop-offs.  I have very sluggish
> reflexes; that means I walk rather slowly because I need a little extra time
> to react when my cane gives me information.  One of the things I liked best
> about working with my guide dog Mozu was that I could pick up the pace.  The
> part I didn't like was the need to figure out what she was thinking and why
> she did some of the things she did.  A guide bot would be very stupid and
> its logic would be easy to follow.  It wouldn't have the lovable
> characteristics of a dog, so I doubt it would decrease the interest in
> having dogs as guides.  It would be an interesting alternative to try.  Make
> it hands free and I'm applying to be a beta tester! 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbwatlk [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Becky
> Frankeberger via nfbwatlk
> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 8:19 AM
> To: 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'
> Cc: Becky Frankeberger
> Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Another device to help us "see"
> 
> Don't forget the facial recognition cane. Wall of shame, giggle, I love the
> idea. But just make sure it is really useless to the blind, please. 
> Something came from the Federation negative about Flash Sonar, aka, tongue
> clicks. This has been a useful tool for the blind for ages. You try playing
> basketball with a cane, yet those well versed in Flash Sonar can really
> play, smile. So make sure the wall of shame has actual useless devices. Say
> narrow it to electronic or real tangible devices, like the toilet designed
> for the blind President Maher mentioned at National Convention a zillion
> years ago.
> 
> Becky and her four on the floor Jake
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbwatlk [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mary ellen
> via nfbwatlk
> Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2015 8:14 PM
> To: 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'
> Cc: Mary ellen
> Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Another device to help us "see"
> 
> I think we should create a "Wall of Shame" where these devices could be
> displayed.  There's the Sonicguide, the Mowat Sensor, the Stereotoner, and
> ,oh so many more!
> 
> Some devices that originally seemed useless have proven to have some
> benefits, but the underlying premise that technology can cause our other
> senses to somehow mimic sight is a flawed concept.
> 
> The Sonicguide gave information about surrounding objects, but the info
> wasn't much better than the echo given back by a cane or a soft tongue
> click.  In fact, it was worse, because it was so loud and intrusive that it
> masked the subtle sounds that we use all the time.
> 
> I believe scientists who develop these things start with the premise that,
> without sight, we are totally ignorant of our surroundings and need
> artificially created and unnecessarily amplified sensory replacement
> mechanisms.
> 
> I don't know what to say to reporters who pass along this stuff
> uncritically.  How do you tell them that our environmental knowledge is so
> much richer than they believe?
> 
> Good luck, Marci.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbwatlk [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marci
> Carpenter via nfbwatlk
> Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2015 6:01 PM
> To: NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List
> Cc: Marci Carpenter
> Subject: [nfbwatlk] Another device to help us "see"
> 
> Here is an article from the June 18 issue of the Washington Post. I missed
> it on Newsline but saw a Facebook post about it today from an NFB member. I
> groaned at the time. Then I saw a KIN5 news story about it tonight. Of
> course they pretty much read the story word for word. I will call them
> tomorrow. I would appreciate your thoughts about what I might say and how
> you all feel about this.
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2015/06/18/fda-approves
> -device-to-help-blind-people-see-by-using-their-tongues/
> <http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2015/06/18/fda-approve
> s-device-to-help-blind-people-see-by-using-their-tongues/>
> 
> Marci
> 
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maurice mines
kd0iko at icloud.com