[nfbwatlk] NFB Cane-Related Airlines Incident
Julie Warrington
jdwtlc at frontier.com
Thu Mar 26 15:19:48 UTC 2015
That was the problem with mine. It was such a tight fit, I was unable to get
it down to floor level, even though it was between the seat and wall.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marci Carpenter via nfbwatlk" <nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org>
To: "'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List' List'" <nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 6:11 PM
Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] NFB Cane-Related Airlines Incident
>I have spoken with Sushil at length today and I would like to address
>several issues raised in this thread
>
> !. Sushil intended for his message to be sent only to me but because of
> some problems with the Wifi in his hotel it was sent to the list by
> mistake.
>
> 2. I have known Sushil Oswal for nearly 7 years. I know him to be a
> rational, reasonable person. He is a valued and respected member of this
> organization. I knew, therefore, that whatever he said was accurate. HE
> DID NOT, IN ANY WAY, CAUSE THEM TO ORDER HIM OFF THE FLIGHT. He did not,
> in any way, cause the confrontation and refuse to compromise. He chose to
> give up his cane, and it was only when he asked for their names that they
> accused him of “bullying” them by doing so. He also did not “deliberately”
> bring that cane. It was the cane he always uses. If we want our members
> and other blind people to come to us with their problems we must enter the
> discussion with trust. I know of people who will no longer post to this
> list because of rude, insensitive comments made by a very small minority
> of our members. I certainly hope that, if I have some incident of
> discrimination and I choose to mention it here, that I am not met with the
> level of mistrust and questioning of character that I have witnessed the
> last 2 days. If we are to gain the right to live, work and travel as we
> please then we must stick together.
>
> 3. Here is the federal regulation, written by and passed through the
> efforts of the National Federation of the Blind; 14 C.F.R. 121.589
> concerning carry-on baggage and canes.g) In addition to the methods of
> stowage in paragraph (c) of this section, flexible travel canes carried by
> blind individuals may be stowed--
> (1) Under any series of connected passenger seats in the same row, if the
> cane does not protrude into an aisle and if the cane is flat on the floor;
> or
> (2) Between a nonemergency exit window seat and the fuselage, if the cane
> is flat on the floor; or
> (3) Beneath any two nonemergency exit window seats, if the cane is flat on
> the floor; or
> (4) In accordance with any other method approved by the Administrator.
> “Flexible canes” refers to what we call rigid canes. Here is a link to
> the website I copied this from:
> http://www2.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/CurrentFARPart/4EFABB63E579B5F7852566EF006DB146?OpenDocument
> <http://www2.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/CurrentFARPart/4EFABB63E579B5F7852566EF006DB146?OpenDocument>
> We may need to start carrying cards with the regulation printed on them.
> Here also is a Braille Monitor article from the 1980’s chronicling some of
> our problems with airlines.
> https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm85/bm8508/bm850810.htm
> <https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm85/bm8508/bm850810.htm>
>
> 4. We fought the exit row issue, using many of the arguments Cindy pointed
> out. We were not able to win this one; so far.
>
> 5. Blind guide doge users used to be told that their dogs could not be
> with them on airplanes or that they were required to sit in the front row
> in order to travel with their dog. Look for the Monitor article or ask
> Mike Hingson sometime about being removed from a plane for refusing to do
> so, and what Mike and the NFB did about it.
>
> Let me close by saying that Sushil Oswal will have the complete support of
> the NFB, both here in Washington and nationally, in pursuing whatever
> course of action he chooses. If you want to discuss this further I am
> willing to talk off list. I will post updates here about Sushil’s chosen
> course of action and what the NFB will be doing to support him.
>
> Thoughtfully Yours,
>
> Marci Carpenter, President
> NFB of Washington
>
>> On Mar 25, 2015, at 4:14 PM, Arielle Silverman via nfbwatlk
>> <nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> .... And for the record, I think the airline was definitely in the
>> wrong for moving Sushil's cane even though he complied. It sounds like
>> a very unpleasant experience and I would encourage Sushil to file a
>> complaint. I just think that before we get involved as an organization
>> we really need to know the other side of the story, especially in this
>> case where it seems like more than just blindness was involved.
>> Oftentimes these kinds of arguments can escalate and not being there,
>> it's hard for us to know what was said that might have triggered the
>> airline to react the way they did.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 3/25/15, Cindy via nfbwatlk <nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org
>> <mailto:nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>>> Apologies for replying twice, but I do agree that we should hear both
>>> sides
>>> of the story before acting as an organization. That being said, the
>>> situation certainly did not sound pleasant, and I can empathize as I
>>> have
>>> had to deal with uneducated flight attendants who in some cases have
>>> become
>>> very powerful and argumentative with me making me feel incredibly
>>> uncomfortable.
>>> As for the exit Row thing, I do believe that people with certain
>>> disabilities, including blindness, can be legally asked to not sit in
>>> those
>>> rows. If we ever pick this up again as an organization, I thought of
>>> some
>>> arguments. One I cannot claim that was thought of by Jedi, a former
>>> Washington resident. She mentioned that of people with their
>>> disabilities
>>> can't sit in the row, perhaps those who do shouldn't be served alcohol
>>> as
>>> that could be a huge hazard. Also, ironically, I think blind people
>>> would be
>>> some of the best guides out of a flight if electricity was lost.
>>> Additionally, the entire basis for the exit row discrimination has to do
>>> with physical things that we Associate with disability. For example, my
>>> friends who do not use canes could probably pass and sit in the rows
>>> which
>>> is just something that annoys me about society in general, but certainly
>>> applies here. Finally, I would love to use this issue along with the
>>> fact
>>> that website should just be accessible, to force airlines to make their
>>> seat
>>> selectors accessible. I know people who have been automatically sat in
>>> the
>>> exit row because they couldn't excessively choose their seat, didn't
>>> know
>>> they were sitting in the exit row, and had to deal with annoying flight
>>> attendance and passengers who assumed they made that choice consciously.
>>> Do
>>> I particularly want to be the hero in charge of saving people from a
>>> plane
>>> crash? Not really. If I didn't know about the issue, I certainly
>>> wouldn't be
>>> begging to sit in the exit row. But what bothers me is that the choice
>>> to
>>> ask someone to move from that row is often based on societal notions of
>>> disabilities such as mobility aids.
>>>
>>> Cindy Bennett
>>> 1st Year Ph.D. Student, Human Centered Design and Engineering
>>> University of Washington
>>>
>>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>>>
>>> Treasurer of the national Federation of the blind of Washington, an
>>> affiliate of the national Federation of the blind.
>>>
>>>> On Mar 25, 2015, at 3:26 PM, Michael Forzano via nfbwatlk
>>>> <nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Sitting in an exit row is against regulations, as far as I know,
>>>> though I don't agree with it. Correct me if I'm wrong.
>>>>
>>>> I'm all for standing firm on certain issues, but this one just doesn't
>>>> seem worth it. As long as you know where your cane is and can access
>>>> it if needed then what's the issue? I'm also curious what regulation
>>>> states that a cane can be stowed next to the window.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/25/15, Mary ellen via nfbwatlk <nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> Mike,
>>>>>
>>>>> Your post has caused me to rethink my willingness to stow my cane
>>>>> overhead.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nfbwatlk [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mary
>>>>> ellen
>>>>> via nfbwatlk
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 3:10 PM
>>>>> To: 'Arielle Silverman'; 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] NFB Cane-Related Airlines Incident
>>>>>
>>>>> Stowing a cane in the overhead bin is certainly an acceptable option,
>>>>> provided the bin is long enough.
>>>>>
>>>>> Because of having been threatened with arrest more than once, and
>>>>> having
>>>>> a
>>>>> flight cancelled because I refused to move from an exit row when
>>>>> sitting
>>>>> in
>>>>> one was not against regulations, I'm a hard liner on this issue.
>>>>> Though
>>>>> I'm
>>>>> willing to store my cane overhead if it defuses a controversy, I
>>>>> completely
>>>>> support any blind person who resists having a cane removed when stored
>>>>> according to regulations along the fuselage or parallel to the row of
>>>>> seats.
>>>>> (Mine will never be stored parallel because it's longer than the row.)
>>>>>
>>>>> I will support anyone who insists on the right to lawfully stow the
>>>>> cane
>>>>> in
>>>>> a position of his or her choosing, but I also completely understand
>>>>> and
>>>>> support any blind person who decides to comply with arbitrary flight
>>>>> crew
>>>>> demands. When I flew Alaska last November, I chose to comply and
>>>>> complain
>>>>> later. I did it because doing otherwise would have created
>>>>> significant
>>>>> problems for my daughter who was meeting my plane. She would have
>>>>> understood and supported me, but I made the decision I did.
>>>>>
>>>>> Looking back on it, my hope that complying at the time and complaining
>>>>> later
>>>>> could serve an educational function was misplaced hope. If I had been
>>>>> willing to withstand the inconvenience, perhaps the education would
>>>>> have
>>>>> taken place and Sushel wouldn't have had to undergo the horrible
>>>>> incident
>>>>> he
>>>>> faced.
>>>>>
>>>>> We all do the best we can at any given moment. I've stood firm and
>>>>> I've
>>>>> caved. I can justify either action; we almost always can. Strategic
>>>>> compromise can be valuable. Unflinching courage also has its place.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nfbwatlk [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>> Silverman via nfbwatlk
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 2:28 PM
>>>>> To: Debby Phillips; NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] NFB Cane-Related Airlines Incident
>>>>>
>>>>> There's a third option people haven't really mentioned. You can put
>>>>> your
>>>>> cane up in the overhead bin. I've done that a few times when either it
>>>>> wouldn't fit by the window or the flight attendant mistakenly thought
>>>>> it
>>>>> wasn't allowed by the window. Putting your cane up overhead pacifies
>>>>> the
>>>>> flight attendants without making you lose access to your cane if you
>>>>> need
>>>>> it. If asked to put it up, I stow it with the flight attendant
>>>>> watching,
>>>>> or
>>>>> we stow it together, and I make sure it is close to my seat. I explain
>>>>> that
>>>>> I want to be compliant but I also want to know where my cane is in the
>>>>> event
>>>>> of an emergency.
>>>>> This has always worked fine. Again, it's best to put it by the window,
>>>>> but
>>>>> in the occasional event that putting it by the window presents a
>>>>> problem,
>>>>> putting it up overhead is a good compromise. Just make sure it's
>>>>> anchored
>>>>> behind another bag so it doesn't fall on your head when you go to take
>>>>> it
>>>>> down.
>>>>> Best, Arielle
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/25/15, Debby Phillips via nfbwatlk <nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Julie, not ragging on you for giving them the cane, but when people
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> that it does make it harder for those of us who don't want to give up
>>>>>> our canes. I'LL gladly give it up if it won't fit between the wall
>>>>>> and the window, but I'm not giving it up if it fits. It's illegal
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> them to ask it, and I'm not giving my cane up. Hopefully there will
>>>>>> be no incidents the next time ow have to fly Alaska. Of course, I
>>>>>> still might only have my funky folding cane. I remember reading
>>>>>> articles in old Braille Monitors about people refusing to give up
>>>>>> their canes and being arrested. It's kind of like I won't leave a
>>>>>> restaurant when I have my dog just because somebody doesn't know the
>>>>>> law. People have fought too hard for the rights we have to give up
>>>>>> our canes
>>>>>> and/oor dogs. Peace, Debby
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>
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