[nfbwatlk] NFB Cane-Related Airlines Incident

Thu Mar 26 01:11:29 UTC 2015

I have spoken with Sushil at length today and I would like to address several issues raised in this thread

!. Sushil intended for his message to be sent only to me but because of some problems with the Wifi in his hotel it was sent to the list by mistake.

2. I have known Sushil Oswal for nearly 7 years. I know him to be a rational, reasonable person. He is a valued and respected member of this organization. I knew, therefore, that whatever he said was accurate. HE DID NOT, IN ANY WAY, CAUSE THEM TO ORDER HIM OFF THE FLIGHT. He did not, in any way, cause the confrontation and refuse to compromise. He chose to give up his cane, and it was only when he asked for their names that they accused him of “bullying” them by doing so. He also did not “deliberately” bring that cane. It was the cane he always uses. If we want our members and other blind people to come to us with their problems we must enter the discussion with trust. I know of people who will no longer post to this list because of rude, insensitive comments made by a very small minority of our members. I certainly hope that, if I have some incident of discrimination and I choose to mention it here, that I am not met with the level of mistrust and questioning of character that I have witnessed the last 2 days. If we are to gain the right to live, work and travel as we please then we must stick together.

3. Here is the federal regulation, written by and passed through the efforts of the National Federation of the Blind; 14 C.F.R. 121.589 concerning carry-on baggage and canes.g) In addition to the methods of stowage in paragraph (c) of this section, flexible travel canes carried by blind individuals may be stowed--
(1) Under any series of connected passenger seats in the same row, if the cane does not protrude into an aisle and if the cane is flat on the floor; or 
(2) Between a nonemergency exit window seat and the fuselage, if the cane is flat on the floor; or
(3) Beneath any two nonemergency exit window seats, if the cane is flat on the floor; or
(4) In accordance with any other method approved by the Administrator. “Flexible canes”  refers to what we call rigid canes. Here is a link to the website I copied this from: http://www2.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/CurrentFARPart/4EFABB63E579B5F7852566EF006DB146?OpenDocument <http://www2.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/CurrentFARPart/4EFABB63E579B5F7852566EF006DB146?OpenDocument> We may need to start carrying cards with the regulation printed on them.
Here also is a Braille Monitor article from the 1980’s chronicling some of our problems with airlines. https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm85/bm8508/bm850810.htm <https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm85/bm8508/bm850810.htm>

4. We fought the exit row issue, using many of the arguments Cindy pointed out. We were not able to win this one; so far.

5. Blind guide doge users used to be told that their dogs could not be with them on airplanes or that they were required to sit in the front row in order to travel with their dog. Look for the Monitor article or ask Mike Hingson sometime about being removed from a plane for refusing to do so, and what Mike and the NFB did about it.

Let me close by saying that Sushil Oswal will have the complete support of the NFB, both here in Washington and nationally, in pursuing whatever course of action he chooses. If you want to discuss this further I am willing to talk off list. I will post updates here about Sushil’s chosen course of action and what the NFB will be doing to support him.

Thoughtfully Yours,

Marci Carpenter, President
NFB of Washington

> On Mar 25, 2015, at 4:14 PM, Arielle Silverman via nfbwatlk <nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> .... And for the record, I think the airline was definitely in the
> wrong for moving Sushil's cane even though he complied. It sounds like
> a very unpleasant experience and I would encourage Sushil to file a
> complaint. I just think that before we get involved as an organization
> we really need to know the other side of the story, especially in this
> case where it seems like more than just blindness was involved.
> Oftentimes these kinds of arguments can escalate and not being there,
> it's hard for us to know what was said that might have triggered the
> airline to react the way they did.
> Arielle
> 
> On 3/25/15, Cindy via nfbwatlk <nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org <mailto:nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>> Apologies for replying twice, but I do agree that we should hear both sides
>> of the story before acting as an organization. That being said, the
>> situation certainly did not sound pleasant, and I can empathize as I have
>> had to deal with uneducated flight attendants who in some cases have become
>> very powerful and argumentative with me making me feel incredibly
>> uncomfortable.
>> As for the exit Row thing, I do believe that people with certain
>> disabilities, including blindness, can be legally asked to not sit in those
>> rows.  If we ever pick this up again as an organization, I thought of some
>> arguments. One I cannot claim that was thought of by Jedi, a former
>> Washington resident. She mentioned that of people with their disabilities
>> can't sit in the row, perhaps those who  do shouldn't be served alcohol as
>> that could be a huge hazard. Also, ironically, I think blind people would be
>> some of the  best guides out of a flight if electricity was lost.
>> Additionally, the entire basis for the exit row discrimination has to do
>> with physical things that we Associate with disability. For example, my
>> friends who do not use canes could probably pass and sit in the rows which
>> is just something that annoys me about society in general, but certainly
>> applies here. Finally, I would love to use this issue along with the fact
>> that website should just be accessible, to force airlines to make their seat
>> selectors accessible. I know people who have been automatically sat in the
>> exit row because they couldn't excessively choose their seat, didn't know
>> they were sitting in the exit row, and had to deal with annoying flight
>> attendance and passengers who assumed they made that choice consciously. Do
>> I particularly want to be the hero in charge of saving people from a plane
>> crash? Not really. If I didn't know about the issue, I certainly wouldn't be
>> begging to sit in the exit row. But what bothers me is that the choice to
>> ask someone to move from that row is often based on  societal notions of
>> disabilities such as mobility aids.
>> 
>> Cindy Bennett
>> 1st Year Ph.D. Student, Human Centered Design and Engineering
>> University of Washington
>> 
>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>> 
>> Treasurer of the national Federation of the blind of Washington, an
>> affiliate of the national Federation of the blind.
>> 
>>> On Mar 25, 2015, at 3:26 PM, Michael Forzano via nfbwatlk
>>> <nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Sitting in an exit row is against regulations, as far as I know,
>>> though I don't agree with it. Correct me if I'm wrong.
>>> 
>>> I'm all for standing firm on certain issues, but this one just doesn't
>>> seem worth it. As long as you know where your cane is and can access
>>> it if needed then what's the issue? I'm also curious what regulation
>>> states that a cane can be stowed next to the window.
>>> 
>>> Mike
>>> 
>>>> On 3/25/15, Mary ellen via nfbwatlk <nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> Mike,
>>>> 
>>>> Your post has caused me to rethink my willingness to stow my cane
>>>> overhead.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nfbwatlk [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mary
>>>> ellen
>>>> via nfbwatlk
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 3:10 PM
>>>> To: 'Arielle Silverman'; 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] NFB Cane-Related Airlines Incident
>>>> 
>>>> Stowing a cane in the overhead bin is certainly an acceptable option,
>>>> provided the bin is long enough.
>>>> 
>>>> Because of having been threatened with arrest more than once, and having
>>>> a
>>>> flight cancelled because I refused to move from an exit row when sitting
>>>> in
>>>> one was not against regulations, I'm a hard liner on this issue.  Though
>>>> I'm
>>>> willing to store my cane overhead if it defuses a controversy, I
>>>> completely
>>>> support any blind person who resists having a cane removed when stored
>>>> according to regulations along the fuselage or parallel to the row of
>>>> seats.
>>>> (Mine will never be stored parallel because it's longer than the row.)
>>>> 
>>>> I will support anyone who insists on the right to lawfully stow the cane
>>>> in
>>>> a position of his or her choosing, but I also completely understand and
>>>> support any blind person who decides to comply with arbitrary flight
>>>> crew
>>>> demands.  When I flew Alaska last November, I chose to comply and
>>>> complain
>>>> later.  I did it because doing otherwise would have created significant
>>>> problems for my daughter who was meeting my plane.  She would have
>>>> understood and supported me, but I made the decision I did.
>>>> 
>>>> Looking back on it, my hope that complying at the time and complaining
>>>> later
>>>> could serve an educational function was misplaced hope.  If I had been
>>>> willing to withstand the inconvenience, perhaps the education would have
>>>> taken place and Sushel wouldn't have had to undergo the horrible
>>>> incident
>>>> he
>>>> faced.
>>>> 
>>>> We all do the best we can at any given moment.  I've stood firm and I've
>>>> caved.  I can justify either action; we almost always can.  Strategic
>>>> compromise can be valuable.  Unflinching courage also has its place.
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nfbwatlk [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle
>>>> Silverman via nfbwatlk
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 2:28 PM
>>>> To: Debby Phillips; NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] NFB Cane-Related Airlines Incident
>>>> 
>>>> There's a third option people haven't really mentioned. You can put your
>>>> cane up in the overhead bin. I've done that a few times when either it
>>>> wouldn't fit by the window or the flight attendant mistakenly thought it
>>>> wasn't allowed by the window. Putting your cane up overhead pacifies the
>>>> flight attendants without making you lose access to your cane if you
>>>> need
>>>> it. If asked to put it up, I stow it with the flight attendant watching,
>>>> or
>>>> we stow it together, and I make sure it is close to my seat. I explain
>>>> that
>>>> I want to be compliant but I also want to know where my cane is in the
>>>> event
>>>> of an emergency.
>>>> This has always worked fine. Again, it's best to put it by the window,
>>>> but
>>>> in the occasional event that putting it by the window presents a
>>>> problem,
>>>> putting it up overhead is a good compromise. Just make sure it's
>>>> anchored
>>>> behind another bag so it doesn't fall on your head when you go to take
>>>> it
>>>> down.
>>>> Best, Arielle
>>>> 
>>>>> On 3/25/15, Debby Phillips via nfbwatlk <nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> Julie, not ragging on you for giving them the cane, but when people do
>>>>> that it does make it harder for those of us who don't want to give up
>>>>> our canes.  I'LL gladly give it up if it won't fit between the wall
>>>>> and the window, but I'm not giving it up if it fits.  It's illegal for
>>>>> them to ask it, and I'm not giving my cane up.  Hopefully there will
>>>>> be no incidents the next time ow have to fly Alaska.  Of course, I
>>>>> still might only have my funky folding cane.  I remember reading
>>>>> articles in old Braille Monitors about people refusing to give up
>>>>> their canes and being arrested.  It's kind of like I won't leave a
>>>>> restaurant when I have my dog just because somebody doesn't know the
>>>>> law.  People have fought too hard for the rights we have to give up
>>>>> our canes
>>>>> and/oor dogs.    Peace,    Debby
>>>>> 
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