[nobe-l] Woodcock Johnson

Thu Mar 1 14:56:24 UTC 2018

Thank you, David, and thank you all for your thoughtful suggestions.
I'm taking careful note and will bring them up to the district.
Unfortunately, I've brought up many fo these solutions already, and
they continue to cite validity as a catch-all, unavoidable issue ...
but I'll be positive and hope that they'll come to see the error of
their ways--pun intended.

All best,
Caitlin

On 3/1/18, Hyde, David W. (ESC) via NOBE-L <nobe-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> A couple of ideas, and yes, I know that it might affect the validity of the
> test. I would add, however, that one can list independent variables all day
> that would do so.
> In college, I had to learn to administer the WAIS (Wexler Adult Intelligence
> Scale) and the WISC R (the same scale for children.) Several of the subtests
> required vision, i.e. picture completion, picture arrangement, item
> assembly, block design, and coding.
> For the picture arrangement, I put braille numbers on the pictures. For the
> object assembly, I numbered the pieces. For the block design, I put tape on
> the red portions of the blocks. For the picture completion, I clipped the
> name of the picture to it, and for the coding, I used a sighted reader when
> it came time for scoring.
> The timing portions (and there are a lot of them) I made a braille stopwatch
> by removing the Chrystal from a regular one, and putting small pieces of
> scotch tape on numbers.
> I don't know the Woodcock Johnson, but some of these might help. If not, I
> might make an official request for a reasonable accommodation, which would
> address the adding duties argument.
> Let's see of teachers on our list have some other ideas.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NOBE-L [mailto:nobe-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> nobe-l-request at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2018 6:00 AM
> To: nobe-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: NOBE-L Digest, Vol 166, Issue 1
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Mt. Everest (Hyde, David W. (ESC))
>    2. Woodcock Johnson (Caitlin Hernandez)
>    3. Re: Woodcock Johnson (Ashley Bramlett)
>    4. Re: Woodcock Johnson (Ashley Bramlett)
>    5. Re: Woodcock Johnson (Caitlin Hernandez)
>    6. Re: Woodcock Johnson (Caitlin Hernandez)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 13:32:00 +0000
> From: "Hyde, David W. (ESC)" <david.hyde at wcbvi.k12.wi.us>
> To: "nobe-l at nfbnet.org" <nobe-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nobe-l] Mt. Everest
> Message-ID:
> 	<e1594e6b168f498d8aef9cda1f210aed at Exchange.wcbvi.k12.wi.us>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> No, there is another Vancouver in Washington.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 07:02:49 -0800
> From: Caitlin Hernandez <caitlinh4590 at gmail.com>
> To: nobe-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nobe-l] Woodcock Johnson
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAPXxu8f23fiQi5G+4JV44BkT7mW+rKFgtRv_fgfxewYp9QJg=Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hi All,
> I'm a totally blind, Braille-reading, first-year Resource specialist for
> fifth and sixth graders in San Francisco. For students' triennial IEPs, we
> use an assessment tool called the Woodcock Johnson, and I've been looking
> into a way to make this accessible for the past year or so. We've just heard
> from the company itself that even Brailling the test or my administering it
> alongside a credentialed sighted person who can assist with the visual bits
> (students need to do a lot of silent pointing, for example) is not possible
> and will compromise the validity of the test.
> Up to this point, I've simply been swapping duties with the other Resource
> specialists we have on our K8 campus; I run pull-out groups for them while
> they do my assessments. This has worked fine, but the district is saying
> that they can't allow this to be an official accommodation, since it adds
> job functions to someone else's job.
> They're also saying that, since I technically cannot perform an executive
> function of the Resource Specialist position, they want me to move to a
> general-education classroom next year: something I don't particularly want
> to do at this time, and for which I'm not appropriately credentialed.
> I'm doing my homework on all this, and my Union representative is in the
> process of getting an attorney. Further, in the job description for Resource
> Specialist, it doesn't specify that the teacher must be capable of
> administering the Woodcock Johnson. However, I promised to ask around among
> my fellow blind teachers to see if anyone has run into this issue or has
> another workaround for the Woodcock Johnson, or any other similar modes of
> assessment which are largely visual and unusable for blind educators.
> Thanks so much for any advice.
>
> All best,
> Caitlin
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 14:40:59 -0500
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Organization of Blind Educators Mailing List"
> 	<nobe-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nobe-l] Woodcock Johnson
> Message-ID: <D011BB0296104AAFA3DAD4302E199529 at OwnerPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=original
>
> Caitlin,
>
> Well, I'm not an educator either, but have considered it. The stress and
> negative attitudes of trying the ed major caused me to change it.
> I have a BA though from Marymount university in liberal studies which is my
> combined degree of social sciences and communication.
>
> When you say you are a resource specialist, do you mean you are a special
> education assistant?
> Are you assisting in a  low vision resource room? Those don't exist much
> anymore since most blind and low vision kids are fully mainstreamed.
> What was your background? Just wanted a sense of what you do.
>
> I have low vision and this question brings back memories. I was administered
> the woodcock johnson.
>
> Unfortunately, I don't have many suggestions for you. I think you are doing
> the right thing I would also swop duties if I were in your shoes.
> I don't see why that cannot be an accommodation. I am glad the union is
> helping and they are looking at an attorney.
> I know legally blind teachers of the vision impaired in our school system.
> To perform visual functioning testing, they either swop duties or use a
> sighted assistant.
>
> I can understand the resistance to brailling it.
> But, you should be able to use a sighted person alongside you to help you
> with visuals such as describing what students do.
> Would they allow you to put raised letters on the cards students have to
> see?
>
>
>
> This sounds like a tough challenge.
> I'm sorry to hear you are not going to be accommodated.
> Barriers like this are why its hard to be employed.
> I see no reason why you should have to switch jobs since you indicated that
> performing this task is not in the job description.
>
> Keep us posted,
> Ashley
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Caitlin Hernandez via NOBE-L
> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 10:02 AM
> To: nobe-l at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Caitlin Hernandez
> Subject: [nobe-l] Woodcock Johnson
>
> Hi All,
> I'm a totally blind, Braille-reading, first-year Resource specialist for
> fifth and sixth graders in San Francisco. For students' triennial IEPs, we
> use an assessment tool called the Woodcock Johnson, and I've been looking
> into a way to make this accessible for the past year or so. We've just heard
> from the company itself that even Brailling the test or my administering it
> alongside a credentialed sighted person who can assist with the visual bits
> (students need to do a lot of silent pointing, for example) is not possible
> and will compromise the validity of the test.
> Up to this point, I've simply been swapping duties with the other Resource
> specialists we have on our K8 campus; I run pull-out groups for them while
> they do my assessments. This has worked fine, but the district is saying
> that they can't allow this to be an official accommodation, since it adds
> job functions to someone else's job.
> They're also saying that, since I technically cannot perform an executive
> function of the Resource Specialist position, they want me to move to a
> general-education classroom next year: something I don't particularly want
> to do at this time, and for which I'm not appropriately credentialed.
> I'm doing my homework on all this, and my Union representative is in the
> process of getting an attorney. Further, in the job description for Resource
> Specialist, it doesn't specify that the teacher must be capable of
> administering the Woodcock Johnson. However, I promised to ask around among
> my fellow blind teachers to see if anyone has run into this issue or has
> another workaround for the Woodcock Johnson, or any other similar modes of
> assessment which are largely visual and unusable for blind educators.
> Thanks so much for any advice.
>
> All best,
> Caitlin
>
> _______________________________________________
> NOBE-L mailing list
> NOBE-L at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nobe-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NOBE-L:
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>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 15:16:34 -0500
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Organization of Blind Educators Mailing List"
> 	<nobe-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nobe-l] Woodcock Johnson
> Message-ID: <636562CA285F446BA8B128DC596DB7BE at OwnerPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=original
>
> Caitlin,
>
> A few ideas but the school probably will not allow it.
> Can you organize the visuals so you know what they are?
> To administer the test, can students show you what they are pointing to?
> Maybe then describe what they see?
>
> I'm also wondering if someone can come in and assist you such as a parent.
> You would still be in charge of the test, but the parent could just tell you
>
> what is happening.
> Also, if you cannot braille the material, can you at least put some tactile
>
> labels on the testing materials so you know what they are?
>
> I hope you find a solution!
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Caitlin Hernandez via NOBE-L
> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 10:02 AM
> To: nobe-l at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Caitlin Hernandez
> Subject: [nobe-l] Woodcock Johnson
>
> Hi All,
> I'm a totally blind, Braille-reading, first-year Resource specialist
> for fifth and sixth graders in San Francisco. For students' triennial
> IEPs, we use an assessment tool called the Woodcock Johnson, and I've
> been looking into a way to make this accessible for the past year or
> so. We've just heard from the company itself that even Brailling the
> test or my administering it alongside a credentialed sighted person
> who can assist with the visual bits (students need to do a lot of
> silent pointing, for example) is not possible and will compromise the
> validity of the test.
> Up to this point, I've simply been swapping duties with the other
> Resource specialists we have on our K8 campus; I run pull-out groups
> for them while they do my assessments. This has worked fine, but the
> district is saying that they can't allow this to be an official
> accommodation, since it adds job functions to someone else's job.
> They're also saying that, since I technically cannot perform an
> executive function of the Resource Specialist position, they want me
> to move to a general-education classroom next year: something I don't
> particularly want to do at this time, and for which I'm not
> appropriately credentialed.
> I'm doing my homework on all this, and my Union representative is in
> the process of getting an attorney. Further, in the job description
> for Resource Specialist, it doesn't specify that the teacher must be
> capable of administering the Woodcock Johnson. However, I promised to
> ask around among my fellow blind teachers to see if anyone has run
> into this issue or has another workaround for the Woodcock Johnson, or
> any other similar modes of assessment which are largely visual and
> unusable for blind educators.
> Thanks so much for any advice.
>
> All best,
> Caitlin
>
> _______________________________________________
> NOBE-L mailing list
> NOBE-L at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nobe-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NOBE-L:
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>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 12:16:52 -0800
> From: Caitlin Hernandez <caitlinh4590 at gmail.com>
> To: Ashley Bramlett via NOBE-L <nobe-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nobe-l] Woodcock Johnson
> Message-ID: <5a970e3c.5240620a.a2ac9.a634 at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Thanas, Ashley. FYI, everyone, I'm a credentialed special education teacher
> (masters in special education and a credential in mild to moderate
> disabilities) and I do NOT teach blind or low vision students.
> Brailling the WJ or adapting it would not be sufficiient, as the battery
> includes many, many subtests, which rely largely on students pointing,
> drawing, and responding nonverbally. The test changes as students respond
> (for example, the progression alters depending on what students get
> correctly and not). Haghing two people administering a test changes the test
> conditions and renders the results invalid.
> Hope this is helpful.
>
> - Caitlin
> Sent From My BrailleNote Touch
>
> On Feb 28, 2018 11:40 AM, Ashley Bramlett via NOBE-L <nobe-l at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>>
>> Caitlin,
>>
>> Well, I'm not an educator either, but have considered it. The stress and
>> negative attitudes of trying the ed major caused me to change it.
>> I have a BA though from Marymount university in liberal studies which is
>> my
>> combined degree of social sciences and communication.
>>
>> When you say you are a resource specialist, do you mean you are a special
>>
>> education assistant?
>> Are you assisting in a? low vision resource room? Those don't exist much
>> anymore since most blind and low vision kids are fully mainstreamed.
>> What was your background? Just wanted a sense of what you do.
>>
>> I have low vision and this question brings back memories. I was
>> administered
>> the woodcock johnson.
>>
>> Unfortunately, I don't have many suggestions for you. I think you are
>> doing
>> the right thing
>> I would also swop duties if I were in your shoes.
>> I don't see why that cannot be an accommodation. I am glad the union is
>> helping and they are looking at an attorney.
>> I know legally blind teachers of the vision impaired in our school system.
>>
>> To perform visual functioning testing, they either swop duties or use a
>> sighted assistant.
>>
>> I can understand the resistance to brailling it.
>> But, you should be able to use a sighted person alongside you to help you
>>
>> with visuals such as describing what students do.
>> Would they allow you to put raised letters on the cards students have to
>> see?
>>
>>
>>
>> This sounds like a tough challenge.
>> I'm sorry to hear you are not going to be accommodated.
>> Barriers like this are why its hard to be employed.
>> I see no reason why you should have to switch jobs since you indicated
>> that
>> performing this task is not in the job description.
>>
>> Keep us posted,
>> Ashley
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Caitlin Hernandez via NOBE-L
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 10:02 AM
>> To: nobe-l at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Caitlin Hernandez
>> Subject: [nobe-l] Woodcock Johnson
>>
>> Hi All,
>> I'm a totally blind, Braille-reading, first-year Resource specialist
>> for fifth and sixth graders in San Francisco. For students' triennial
>> IEPs, we use an assessment tool called the Woodcock Johnson, and I've
>> been looking into a way to make this accessible for the past year or
>> so. We've just heard from the company itself that even Brailling the
>> test or my administering it alongside a credentialed sighted person
>> who can assist with the visual bits (students need to do a lot of
>> silent pointing, for example) is not possible and will compromise the
>> validity of the test.
>> Up to this point, I've simply been swapping duties with the other
>> Resource specialists we have on our K8 campus; I run pull-out groups
>> for them while they do my assessments. This has worked fine, but the
>> district is saying that they can't allow this to be an official
>> accommodation, since it adds job functions to someone else's job.
>> They're also saying that, since I technically cannot perform an
>> executive function of the Resource Specialist position, they want me
>> to move to a general-education classroom next year: something I don't
>> particularly want to do at this time, and for which I'm not
>> appropriately credentialed.
>> I'm doing my homework on all this, and my Union representative is in
>> the process of getting an attorney. Further, in the job description
>> for Resource Specialist, it doesn't specify that the teacher must be
>> capable of administering the Woodcock Johnson. However, I promised to
>> ask around among my fellow blind teachers to see if anyone has run
>> into this issue or has another workaround for the Woodcock Johnson, or
>> any other similar modes of assessment which are largely visual and
>> unusable for blind educators.
>> Thanks so much for any advice.
>>
>> All best,
>> Caitlin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NOBE-L mailing list
>> NOBE-L at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nobe-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NOBE-L:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nobe-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NOBE-L mailing list
>> NOBE-L at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nobe-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NOBE-L:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nobe-l_nfbnet.org/caitlinh4590%40gmail.com
>>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 12:22:57 -0800
> From: Caitlin Hernandez <caitlinh4590 at gmail.com>
> To: Ashley Bramlett via NOBE-L <nobe-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nobe-l] Woodcock Johnson
> Message-ID: <5a970fa9.5009620a.672af.a62c at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> These are all great suggestions that I use with other things, but this test
> administration cannot be altered in any way, as that could impact students'
> scores. These scores determine whether or not they are permitted to have an
> IEP. It's not so same as adapting clabbswork or tests in class; finlas have
> to be trained to do it, and the administration is very rigorous and strictly
> monitored. The tests must also be completed by the same administrator, so I
> can't only do the accessible sections.
> Hope this makes sense.
>
> Sent From My BrailleNote Touch
>
> On Feb 28, 2018 12:16 PM, Ashley Bramlett via NOBE-L <nobe-l at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>>
>> Caitlin,
>>
>> A few ideas but the school probably will not allow it.
>> Can you organize the visuals so you know what they are?
>> To administer the test, can students show you what they are pointing to?
>> Maybe then describe what they see?
>>
>> I'm also wondering if someone can come in and assist you such as a parent.
>>
>> You would still be in charge of the test, but the parent could just tell
>> you
>> what is happening.
>> Also, if you cannot braille the material, can you at least put some
>> tactile
>> labels on the testing materials so you know what they are?
>>
>> I hope you find a solution!
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Caitlin Hernandez via NOBE-L
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 10:02 AM
>> To: nobe-l at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Caitlin Hernandez
>> Subject: [nobe-l] Woodcock Johnson
>>
>> Hi All,
>> I'm a totally blind, Braille-reading, first-year Resource specialist
>> for fifth and sixth graders in San Francisco. For students' triennial
>> IEPs, we use an assessment tool called the Woodcock Johnson, and I've
>> been looking into a way to make this accessible for the past year or
>> so. We've just heard from the company itself that even Brailling the
>> test or my administering it alongside a credentialed sighted person
>> who can assist with the visual bits (students need to do a lot of
>> silent pointing, for example) is not possible and will compromise the
>> validity of the test.
>> Up to this point, I've simply been swapping duties with the other
>> Resource specialists we have on our K8 campus; I run pull-out groups
>> for them while they do my assessments. This has worked fine, but the
>> district is saying that they can't allow this to be an official
>> accommodation, since it adds job functions to someone else's job.
>> They're also saying that, since I technically cannot perform an
>> executive function of the Resource Specialist position, they want me
>> to move to a general-education classroom next year: something I don't
>> particularly want to do at this time, and for which I'm not
>> appropriately credentialed.
>> I'm doing my homework on all this, and my Union representative is in
>> the process of getting an attorney. Further, in the job description
>> for Resource Specialist, it doesn't specify that the teacher must be
>> capable of administering the Woodcock Johnson. However, I promised to
>> ask around among my fellow blind teachers to see if anyone has run
>> into this issue or has another workaround for the Woodcock Johnson, or
>> any other similar modes of assessment which are largely visual and
>> unusable for blind educators.
>> Thanks so much for any advice.
>>
>> All best,
>> Caitlin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NOBE-L mailing list
>> NOBE-L at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nobe-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NOBE-L:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nobe-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NOBE-L mailing list
>> NOBE-L at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nobe-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NOBE-L:
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>>
>
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