[Oagdu] Chinese Bus Service: Shouldn't they be confronted asUber is?

Chris Tolle tollebooth at gmail.com
Wed Feb 4 23:38:50 UTC 2015 

Forgive any errors in grammar or spelling, I am using dictation to write this. I disagree that because I use a guy dog that in someway is not comparable to race or to sex. A guy dog is a companion and in the eyes of some a tool to balance the playing field for those of us who cannot see. I was born this way just as a colored person is born colored and a person is born their individual sex.  I'm old enough to understand the very delicate issues of all three protected classes.   I believe the old adage says "obey the laws of your land'.  It took us a very long time to get laws on the books protecting the use of service dogs. Why should we set aside those laws to accommodate the fears, culture, phobias etc. of people who aren't were first of all not US citizens and second of all guests in our country?  I have nothing disparaging to say about anyone no matter where they're from the color of their skin or what sex they happen to be. I believe that the word says in the beginning God created. 

That said,  I like the person who made the comment that those who choose to ignore the individual egg nor the whole.  The reason that the civil rights act of 1960s was as successful as it was is that people were willing to put their very lives on the line to defend what they believe in. They came together and with one voice spoke to the nation.  If we want unequal place at the table, we must be willing to come together and to stand up for the rights that we have earned and have been given to us.  If a law is broken no matter who breaks it there needs to be a change in how they do business. I would not use this service  but I would also make sure that their behavior was addressed.  What good are right if we will not stand up to defend them when someone acts in accordance with taking them away from us

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 4, 2015, at 4:18 PM, Megan Schief via Oagdu <oagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> A guide is a choice. Yet for me it is also the best for my needs.
> A company that says the'll talk to each individual takes away
> the power of the whole. Companies don't want to deal with such issues.
> I don't know anything more attractive then when my MS. P. stops for a
> traffic check.  San Fran, go for it.Megan and MS. P.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andy I totally agree with you.  I travelled to Jermany, Hungary and
>> Austria with my guide dog and had very few issues.  I found the laws
>> in Austria and Hungary to be very different from U.S. laws but I
>> followed them with no issues.  I also went to Bosnia, Croatia, and
>> Italy and chose to leave my dog at home because of concerns with wild
>> dogs on some of the countries.  I didn't expect them to change for me.
>> I changed my behavior.  If I chose to live outside of the U.S. I would
>> study their laws and try to follow them.
>> 
>>> On 2/4/15, Andy Leach <aleach5 at woh.rr.com> wrote:
>>> Hi again everyone:
>>> 
>>> Earlier today I indicated that maybe there are bigger fish to fry and
>>> maybe
>>> that going after these guys may not be the best and most productive use
>>> of
>>> our time.  However, a couple of list members have expressed their
>>> thoughts
>>> and it has forced me to reconsider my position.  First off, traveling
>>> with
>>> my guide may be a voluntary choice on my part, but it is certainly
>>> nobody
>>> else's business and it is not my job to accommodate that person because
>>> of a
>>> phobia or a cultural issue.  At least I stand by this position in the
>>> United
>>> States of America.  This being said, if I ever were traveling to ASIA or
>>> the
>>> Middle East, my dog likely wouldn't be welcome so she would have to stay
>>> home while I was there.  If a person isn't happy with the laws and
>>> regulations here, they don't have to stay!
>>> 
>>> Now, that being said, I agree with Angel that I personally wouldn't use
>>> this
>>> transportation company and I'd find other means to get there.  If for
>>> some
>>> reason I wanted to use this service then I would fight the battle
>>> because
>>> they are definitely discriminating.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Oagdu [mailto:oagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marianne
>>> Denning
>>> via Oagdu
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 3:03 PM
>>> To: Angel; Ohio Association of Guide Dog Users List
>>> Subject: Re: [Oagdu] Chinese Bus Service: Shouldn't they be confronted
>>> asUber is?
>>> 
>>> I agree that race or sex is not a choice but to live in America is a
>>> choice.
>>> If you want to live here you follow the laws here.  You also have a
>>> choice
>>> about whether you accept or reject others no matter what your race or
>>> sex.
>>> I think a great question was asked and, if anyone wants to use that
>>> transportation it should be open to all.  I know a woman from South
>>> Korea
>>> who has a guide dog so should she be denied services?  I don't want to
>>> challenge anyone just to challenge them but they can't discriminate.
>>> 
>>>> On 2/4/15, Angel via Oagdu <oagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> Race or sex is not a choice.  Our choice to use animals as service or
>>>> guides is a voluntary choice we each make.  So comparing the two is
>>>> wrong.  I would agree with making an issue regarding this companies
>>>> choice not to provide accommodation for guides if there were no other
>>>> means of transport available.  But, this is not the case.  Many Asians
>>>> feel dogs are unclean, and many eat them in their countries.  Should
>>>> we make them feel uncomfortable riding with us transport appealing to
>>>> them.  Particularly if they aren't well acquainted with either our
>>>> language or customs just to make a point?  When there are other more
>>>> attractive choices for us to make regarding transport?  I say, we
>>>> should leave their transport alone, and ride other forms of transport.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "CHRIS TOLLE via Oagdu" <oagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> To: "Deanna Lewis" <DLewis at clovernook.org>; "Ohio Association of Guide
>>>> Dog Users List" <oagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 9:26 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Oagdu] Chinese Bus Service: Shouldn't they be confronted
>>>> asUber is?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Morning sir,
>>>>> 
>>>>> When God made me, he added an extra layer of hard headedness.  I
>>>>> believe that every time we allow any service, organization,  company,
>>>>> group or entity  of any kind to ignore our rights as  citizens  of
>>>>> the USA, we weaken  our ability to enforce  the rights that we have
>>>>> achieved over the
>>>>> past 25 years of ADA.   We must stand up to such  flagrant  disregard
>>>>> for
>>>>> the LAW.  If they were to refuse service to someone because of their
>>>>> color
>>>>> 
>>>>> or age,  the world would be outraged & marching on the mall in DC.  As
>>>>> they should.  So should we.   We must change the world we live in now
>>>>> for
>>>>> the better so that my son, who has an eye issue, doesn’t have to
>>>>> face
>>>>> the same kind of treatment as I do, we do.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I wouldn’t  ride this bus or use this service but…. I would
>>>>> totally
>>>>> ware them out  with the law.  We have a strong voice if we unify &
>>>>> stand as one
>>>>> 
>>>>> loud voice.  We are not here to ask “Please sir, can I have some
>>>>> more.”
>>>>> We are demanding our equal place at the table & all rights &
>>>>> privileges afforded to the rest of the folks at the table.
>>>>> 
>>>>> tollebooth
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2015, at 8:54 AM, Deanna Lewis via Oagdu
>>>>>> <oagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Chaim,
>>>>>> I have never heard of this bus service. Do you by any chance
>>>>>> remember the
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> name of it? Do they advertise to the public, or mostly to the Asian
>>>>>> population? Please don't misinterpret what I am asking, I am just
>>>>>> trying to understand this company better, I am not trying to be
>>>>>> prejudice.
>>>>>> The whole thing sounds shifty, and I don't think I would enjoy
>>>>>> riding on this service with or without a dog.
>>>>>> Deanna and Pascal
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Oagdu [mailto:oagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chaim B.
>>>>>> Segal
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> via Oagdu
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 11:41 PM
>>>>>> To: oagdu at nfbnet.org; nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Subject: [Oagdu] Chinese Bus Service: Shouldn't they be confronted
>>>>>> as Uber is?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi All:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> As I have been reading the posts on these lists concerning Uber's
>>>>>> hearing, a thought is dawning on me which I thought I would put out
>>>>>> there.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Over the past few years, it seems as though we have had a major
>>>>>> increase of Chinese immigrants to Ohio. I'm not sure how many of
>>>>>> these people will
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> actually stay around, or how many of them are temporary residents.
>>>>>> My apartment complex is swarming with students from the University
>>>>>> of Dayton, whose millionaire parents are paying for them to attend
>>>>>> school here. I don't think that this group has anything to do with
>>>>>> the folks I am mentioning below.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Before moving to Brooklyn last year, my oldest brother brought it to
>>>>>> our attention that there is now a Chinese bus service which travels
>>>>>> between Dayton, Cincinnati, and New York City.  Why only these three
>>>>>> cities I don't know. Perhaps they stop in other places. Anyway, I
>>>>>> was going to use
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> this service to take a trip, and researched the operation online. I
>>>>>> called their phone number, and asked the Chinese bloke who answered
>>>>>> the phone a few things about their service. As I expected, they had
>>>>>> a no pets
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> policy. I then asked them if they were aware of the rights of guide
>>>>>> dog users to be accompanied by their guide dogs in travel. The
>>>>>> fellow had never heard of guide dog use before. He was adamant that
>>>>>> I cannot travel on his service with a dog. Before this, I asked him
>>>>>> if I could be given assistance off the bus at rest stops, and he said
>>>>>> "no."
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I reported my finding to Seeing Eye, and I believe it was Walt
>>>>>> Sutton who
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> tried to give them a call. The number I passed on to him (which I
>>>>>> forget)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> turned out to be that of a Chinese Restaurant. He recommended that I
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> not bother with this service, as for all anybody knows, they may be
>>>>>> operating somewhat illegally anyway.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> My oldest brother paid us a visit over the summer and used this
>>>>>> Chinese bus service to get himself back to New York. Before using
>>>>>> it, he thought it might be a viable means for my (blind) brother and
>>>>>> I to travel to and from New York. After using it himself, he has
>>>>>> changed his mind. The bus does not stop at any designated station
>>>>>> terminal. They pick people up in neighborhoods which are out in the
>>>>>> middle of nowhere. In New York, they drop people off in Chinatown,
>>>>>> and leave it to them to travel with their luggage to where they need
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> go. It's more-or-less a bare-bones service.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm not sure how crowded the buses are, but the bus, according to my
>>>>>> brother, is not nearly as comfortable as a Greyhound. Baring this in
>>>>>> mind, it's probably not a good idea for any of us to travel on this
>>>>>> service using a guide. Moreover, I would probably not go to bat,
>>>>>> unless I
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> really thought I would use this service.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What does concern me, aside from the fact that to them a guide dog
>>>>>> is as good as a pet, is the fact that they seem the least concern
>>>>>> with regard to assisting any blind person, even if they are not using
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> dog.
>>>>>> Parenthetically, I believe I asked the guy if their buses had
>>>>>> wheelchair lifts, and apparently they don't. It seems to me that
>>>>>> this service may be
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> in violation of the ADA under many accounts. I'm wondering if these
>>>>>> people should be informed that if they are operating a service in
>>>>>> the United States, they must play by the rules. While I strongly
>>>>>> feel the answer is obviously "Yes", I'm wondering if taking them to
>>>>>> task will really accomplish anything. Somebody told me that the way
>>>>>> they can even have a service like this is to do things under the
>>>>>> table. Even if they are confronted, will they really listen?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What do you all think?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Chaim
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Chaim B. Segal
>>>>>> Customer Service Representative: Sinclair Community College, Dayton,
>>>>>> Ohio
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Every man, woman every boy and girl, Let your love light shine and
>>>>>> make a better world
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Daryl Hall And John Oates
>>>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> --
>>> Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
>>> Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
>>> (513) 607-6053
>>> 
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>> 
>> --
>> Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
>> Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
>> (513) 607-6053
>> 
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