[Oagdu] Chinese Bus Service: Shouldn't they be confronted asUber is?

Thu Feb 5 00:12:18 UTC 2015

Angel, I agree that it is only a case when someone has actually been
denied services.  I stated earlier that just calling the company does
not, in my opinion, rise to that standard.  If someone were to attempt
to purchase a ticket or be denied access once they attempt to get on
the bus, then they have been denied service.

Uber is making the argument that their drivers are private individuals
driving their personal cars, so should be able to deny service if they
don't want a dog in their car.  The courts will determine that claim.

I read the article about the lady and all of her animals.  She never
did show her certificate but said she had one.  According to the ADA,
only service dogs, and in some cases, guide horses are considered
service animals.  Therefore, taking pigs, turtles...is not protected
under ADA.  Each state can adopt a different law, as long as service
dogs are covered.

Any bus service would, most likely, be considered public transportation.

I have not studied the laws regarding renting property so can't talk
about apartments that aren't accessible to people in wheelchairs.  If
I used a wheelchair I would become familiar with those laws and do all
I could to make sure they are followed.

I can see the points you bring up so thanks for sharing them with us.
On 2/4/15, Angel <angel238 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> We truly don't know what their stand is regarding this.  As no one with a
> service or guide animal actually has attempted to ride this coach service.
> Is it a private or a public advertised service, as are cab services?  If it
>
> is a private service, what rights do private transport services have
> regarding whom they choose to transport?  There are apartments which only
> cater to a specific segment of the population.  Apartments specializing inn
>
> Senior and disabled tenanting are examples of apartments who discriminate
> against able-bodied families with children.  They are allowed to do this.
> What is the difference.  The difference is that government officials wishing
>
> to woo voters passed a law saying there is a difference.  But, for the life
>
> of me, I can't understand the difference.  I, for example live in the up
> stairs of a double home which advertised in the news paper for tenants.  The
>
> home is not wheel chair accessible.  Perhaps some of you live in homes such
>
> as is my home.  Should my landlord be taken to court because the homes he
> rents aren't accessible for physically challenged people.  When he
> advertises them on public forums?  If he were, he would have to give up his
>
> homes.  Because the cost of making them accessible or defending himself
> against the suit would be prohibitive.  If this South Korean woman wishes to
>
> use this service, and is denied, then we might want to back her in her
> redress.  If the transportation service is a public service.  Should she
> wish to pursue it.  But, to create contention between us  blind citizens and
>
> a group of people who might interact with blind consumers again in other
> service industries does more to harm us as a group.  I read an article
> written by someone who got a certificate which allowed her to take all sorts
>
> of different animals in to different establishments and on air craft.  To
> see just what sorts of animals would be permitted without complaint.  After
>
> she showed to them her certificate.  There seemed to be such fear among
> those staffing these facilities, there were no objections.  Even when she
> took a turtle aboard an aircraft.  I read another article where a service
> pig was caught wandering the isles of an air craft.  If you feel so strongly
>
> all living in a country should adhere to its laws concerning the use of
> guide dogs, what are your feelings about blind citizens of Asia who might
> own Guides?  If the laws of the country don't mandate free access by them to
>
> public facilities, and  They ought not use them till, or if the laws in
> their respective countries change?  Is it any wonder cabs pass by blind
> citizens when they see they have guides. It is easier to pass them by than
> to go through the hassle of refusing them service, and risking the
> consequences.  If there were no laws or government mandates, what a selling
>
> point there would be for facilities to blatantly advertise guides and
> service animals are welcome in various establishments.   ----- Original
> Message -----
> From: "Marianne Denning" <marianne at denningweb.com>
> To: "Angel" <angel238 at sbcglobal.net>; "Ohio Association of Guide Dog Users
> List" <oagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 3:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [Oagdu] Chinese Bus Service: Shouldn't they be confronted
> asUber is?
>
>
> I agree that race or sex is not a choice but to live in America is a
> choice.  If you want to live here you follow the laws here.  You also
> have a choice about whether you accept or reject others no matter what
> your race or sex.  I think a great question was asked and, if anyone
> wants to use that transportation it should be open to all.  I know a
> woman from South Korea who has a guide dog so should she be denied
> services?  I don't want to challenge anyone just to challenge them but
> they can't discriminate.
>
> On 2/4/15, Angel via Oagdu <oagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Race or sex is not a choice.  Our choice to use animals as service or
>> guides
>> is a voluntary choice we each make.  So comparing the two is wrong.  I
>> would
>> agree with making an issue regarding this companies choice not to provide
>> accommodation for guides if there were no other means of transport
>> available.  But, this is not the case.  Many Asians feel dogs are
>> unclean,
>> and many eat them in their countries.  Should we make them feel
>> uncomfortable riding with us transport appealing to them.  Particularly
>> if
>> they aren't well acquainted with either our language or customs just to
>> make
>> a point?  When there are other more attractive choices for us to make
>> regarding transport?  I say, we should leave their transport alone, and
>> ride
>> other forms of transport.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "CHRIS TOLLE via Oagdu" <oagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> To: "Deanna Lewis" <DLewis at clovernook.org>; "Ohio Association of Guide
>> Dog
>> Users List" <oagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 9:26 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Oagdu] Chinese Bus Service: Shouldn't they be confronted
>> asUber is?
>>
>>
>>> Morning sir,
>>>
>>> When God made me, he added an extra layer of hard headedness.  I believe
>>> that every time we allow any service, organization,  company, group or
>>> entity  of any kind to ignore our rights as  citizens  of the USA, we
>>> weaken  our ability to enforce  the rights that we have achieved over
>>> the
>>> past 25 years of ADA.   We must stand up to such  flagrant  disregard
>>> for
>>> the LAW.  If they were to refuse service to someone because of their
>>> color
>>>
>>> or age,  the world would be outraged & marching on the mall in DC.  As
>>> they should.  So should we.   We must change the world we live in now
>>> for
>>> the better so that my son, who has an eye issue, doesn’t have to face
>>> the
>>> same kind of treatment as I do, we do.
>>>
>>> I wouldn’t  ride this bus or use this service but…. I would totally ware
>>> them out  with the law.  We have a strong voice if we unify & stand as
>>> one
>>>
>>> loud voice.  We are not here to ask “Please sir, can I have some more.”
>>> We are demanding our equal place at the table & all rights & privileges
>>> afforded to the rest of the folks at the table.
>>>
>>> tollebooth
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Feb 4, 2015, at 8:54 AM, Deanna Lewis via Oagdu <oagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Chaim,
>>>> I have never heard of this bus service. Do you by any chance remember
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>> name of it? Do they advertise to the public, or mostly to the Asian
>>>> population? Please don't misinterpret what I am asking, I am just
>>>> trying
>>>> to understand this company better, I am not trying to be prejudice.
>>>> The whole thing sounds shifty, and I don't think I would enjoy riding
>>>> on
>>>> this service with or without a dog.
>>>> Deanna and Pascal
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Oagdu [mailto:oagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chaim B.
>>>> Segal
>>>>
>>>> via Oagdu
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 11:41 PM
>>>> To: oagdu at nfbnet.org; nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: [Oagdu] Chinese Bus Service: Shouldn't they be confronted as
>>>> Uber is?
>>>>
>>>> Hi All:
>>>>
>>>> As I have been reading the posts on these lists concerning Uber's
>>>> hearing, a thought is dawning on me which I thought I would put out
>>>> there.
>>>>
>>>> Over the past few years, it seems as though we have had a major
>>>> increase
>>>> of Chinese immigrants to Ohio. I'm not sure how many of these people
>>>> will
>>>>
>>>> actually stay around, or how many of them are temporary residents. My
>>>> apartment complex is swarming with students from the University of
>>>> Dayton, whose millionaire parents are paying for them to attend school
>>>> here. I don't think that this group has anything to do with the folks I
>>>> am mentioning below.
>>>>
>>>> Before moving to Brooklyn last year, my oldest brother brought it to
>>>> our
>>>> attention that there is now a Chinese bus service which travels between
>>>> Dayton, Cincinnati, and New York City.  Why only these three cities I
>>>> don't know. Perhaps they stop in other places. Anyway, I was going to
>>>> use
>>>>
>>>> this service to take a trip, and researched the operation online. I
>>>> called their phone number, and asked the Chinese bloke who answered the
>>>> phone a few things about their service. As I expected, they had a no
>>>> pets
>>>>
>>>> policy. I then asked them if they were aware of the rights of guide dog
>>>> users to be accompanied by their guide dogs in travel. The fellow had
>>>> never heard of guide dog use before. He was adamant that I cannot
>>>> travel
>>>> on his service with a dog. Before this, I asked him if I could be given
>>>> assistance off the bus at rest stops, and he said "no."
>>>>
>>>> I reported my finding to Seeing Eye, and I believe it was Walt Sutton
>>>> who
>>>>
>>>> tried to give them a call. The number I passed on to him (which I
>>>> forget)
>>>>
>>>> turned out to be that of a Chinese Restaurant. He recommended that I
>>>> just
>>>>
>>>> not bother with this service, as for all anybody knows, they may be
>>>> operating somewhat illegally anyway.
>>>>
>>>> My oldest brother paid us a visit over the summer and used this Chinese
>>>> bus service to get himself back to New York. Before using it, he
>>>> thought
>>>> it might be a viable means for my (blind) brother and I to travel to
>>>> and
>>>> from New York. After using it himself, he has changed his mind. The bus
>>>> does not stop at any designated station terminal. They pick people up
>>>> in
>>>> neighborhoods which are out in the middle of nowhere. In New York, they
>>>> drop people off in Chinatown, and leave it to them to travel with their
>>>> luggage to where they need to go. It's more-or-less a bare-bones
>>>> service.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure how crowded the buses are, but the bus, according to my
>>>> brother, is not nearly as comfortable as a Greyhound. Baring this in
>>>> mind, it's probably not a good idea for any of us to travel on this
>>>> service using a guide. Moreover, I would probably not go to bat, unless
>>>>
>>>> I
>>>>
>>>> really thought I would use this service.
>>>>
>>>> What does concern me, aside from the fact that to them a guide dog is
>>>> as
>>>> good as a pet, is the fact that they seem the least concern with regard
>>>> to assisting any blind person, even if they are not using a dog.
>>>> Parenthetically, I believe I asked the guy if their buses had
>>>> wheelchair
>>>> lifts, and apparently they don't. It seems to me that this service may
>>>> be
>>>>
>>>> in violation of the ADA under many accounts. I'm wondering if these
>>>> people should be informed that if they are operating a service in the
>>>> United States, they must play by the rules. While I strongly feel the
>>>> answer is obviously "Yes", I'm wondering if taking them to task will
>>>> really accomplish anything. Somebody told me that the way they can even
>>>> have a service like this is to do things under the table. Even if they
>>>> are confronted, will they really listen?
>>>>
>>>> What do you all think?
>>>>
>>>> Chaim
>>>>
>>>> Chaim B. Segal
>>>> Customer Service Representative: Sinclair Community College, Dayton,
>>>> Ohio
>>>>
>>>> Every man, woman every boy and girl,
>>>> Let your love light shine and make a better world
>>>>
>>>> Daryl Hall And John Oates
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
> Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
> (513) 607-6053
>
>

-- 
Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
(513) 607-6053