[Oagdu] Chinese Bus Service: Shouldn't they be confrontedasUber is?
Angel
angel238 at sbcglobal.net
Thu Feb 5 01:00:38 UTC 2015
I too suspect tolerance of different opinions, preferences, and points of
view of others in our society only is expected when it is asked for, or is
demanded. Not the other way around.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Megan Schief via Oagdu" <oagdu at nfbnet.org>
To: "Marianne Denning" <marianne at denningweb.com>; "Ohio Association of Guide
Dog Users List" <oagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Oagdu] Chinese Bus Service: Shouldn't they be confrontedasUber
is?
> Thank you Marianne. We are one people. I lived my life around civil
rights, race Class and Sex.
I am now dedicated to us. it is time for us to unite for our rights. I
find that the NFB. I a great
organization. I am a member with pride to be part of OAGu and NFB.
Lets try to temper our words and realize that blindness may a nuisance,
but the education of
the sighted is an important part of our work. Megan and the P.
I did not choose to be blind. I am given the same protections under
> the law as any other citizens. If I need a dog, cane or any other
> travel aid to get around independently then if you have a business and
> deny access based on my disability you are violating my civil rights.
> You don't have to allow me into your private home or car with my dog
> but if you own a business it is different.
>
> On 2/4/15, Angel via Oagdu <oagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> The only "rights we have are those afforded us by the constitution. The
>> civil rights won not by "colored" people, I personally take great
>> offence at
>> the use of that word, and would stand up against anyone calling any of
>> my
>> family "colored". Too repeat what you said, "That said", to protect the
>> civil rights guaranteed by our constitution and its amendments. So the
>> right to equal treatment given to various races of people is not the
>> same as
>> that afforded those whose choice is to employ the services of guide or
>> service animals. To imply exactness, rather than similarity, is to
>> cheapen
>> the struggle won by those who fought so valiantly for their
>> constitutional
>> rights. Secondly, we know nothing about the citizenship of these people
>> who
>> choose to ride this service, or whether the service is legal, or
>> private.
>> If either, it falls outside the law simply by its existence. Therefore
>> to
>> wish to use such a service might be putting oneself outside the law.
>> Thereby causing the application of a law to it is ridiculous. If its
>> legal
>> reason for existence is doubtful in the first place. I won't post any
>> longer concerning this subject, in any case. As I haven't any longer a
>> "dog
>> in this fight". As the subject is emotional and minds can't be changed
>> either way. I can tell you this: If I owned a public establishment or
>> service and a person owning a guide were to attempt to use that
>> establishment or service , and if that person used that word in my
>> presence, I would gladly serve the sentence, and pay the fine to keep
>> such a
>> person out of my business. It would be a privilege too.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Chris Tolle via Oagdu" <oagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> To: <meandthedog at oberlin.net>; "Ohio Association of Guide Dog Users
>> List"
>> <oagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 6:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Oagdu] Chinese Bus Service: Shouldn't they be
>> confrontedasUber
>> is?
>>
>>
>>> Forgive any errors in grammar or spelling, I am using dictation to
>>> write
>>> this. I disagree that because I use a guy dog that in someway is not
>>> comparable to race or to sex. A guy dog is a companion and in the eyes
>>> of
>>> some a tool to balance the playing field for those of us who cannot
>>> see. I
>>>
>>> was born this way just as a colored person is born colored and a person
>>> is
>>>
>>> born their individual sex. I'm old enough to understand the very
>>> delicate
>>>
>>> issues of all three protected classes. I believe the old adage says
>>> "obey the laws of your land'. It took us a very long time to get laws
>>> on
>>> the books protecting the use of service dogs. Why should we set aside
>>> those laws to accommodate the fears, culture, phobias etc. of people
>>> who
>>> aren't were first of all not US citizens and second of all guests in
>>> our
>>> country? I have nothing disparaging to say about anyone no matter
>>> where
>>> they're from the color of their skin or what sex they happen to be. I
>>> believe that the word says in the beginning God created.
>>>
>>> That said, I like the person who made the comment that those who
>>> choose
>>> to ignore the individual egg nor the whole. The reason that the civil
>>> rights act of 1960s was as successful as it was is that people were
>>> willing to put their very lives on the line to defend what they believe
>>> in. They came together and with one voice spoke to the nation. If we
>>> want
>>>
>>> unequal place at the table, we must be willing to come together and to
>>> stand up for the rights that we have earned and have been given to us.
>>> If
>>>
>>> a law is broken no matter who breaks it there needs to be a change in
>>> how
>>> they do business. I would not use this service but I would also make
>>> sure
>>>
>>> that their behavior was addressed. What good are right if we will not
>>> stand up to defend them when someone acts in accordance with taking
>>> them
>>> away from us
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Feb 4, 2015, at 4:18 PM, Megan Schief via Oagdu <oagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A guide is a choice. Yet for me it is also the best for my needs.
>>>> A company that says the'll talk to each individual takes away
>>>> the power of the whole. Companies don't want to deal with such issues.
>>>> I don't know anything more attractive then when my MS. P. stops for a
>>>> traffic check. San Fran, go for it.Megan and MS. P.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Andy I totally agree with you. I travelled to Jermany, Hungary and
>>>>> Austria with my guide dog and had very few issues. I found the laws
>>>>> in Austria and Hungary to be very different from U.S. laws but I
>>>>> followed them with no issues. I also went to Bosnia, Croatia, and
>>>>> Italy and chose to leave my dog at home because of concerns with wild
>>>>> dogs on some of the countries. I didn't expect them to change for
>>>>> me.
>>>>> I changed my behavior. If I chose to live outside of the U.S. I
>>>>> would
>>>>> study their laws and try to follow them.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/4/15, Andy Leach <aleach5 at woh.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi again everyone:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Earlier today I indicated that maybe there are bigger fish to fry
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> maybe
>>>>>> that going after these guys may not be the best and most productive
>>>>>> use
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> our time. However, a couple of list members have expressed their
>>>>>> thoughts
>>>>>> and it has forced me to reconsider my position. First off,
>>>>>> traveling
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> my guide may be a voluntary choice on my part, but it is certainly
>>>>>> nobody
>>>>>> else's business and it is not my job to accommodate that person
>>>>>> because
>>>>>> of a
>>>>>> phobia or a cultural issue. At least I stand by this position in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> United
>>>>>> States of America. This being said, if I ever were traveling to
>>>>>> ASIA
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Middle East, my dog likely wouldn't be welcome so she would have to
>>>>>> stay
>>>>>> home while I was there. If a person isn't happy with the laws and
>>>>>> regulations here, they don't have to stay!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, that being said, I agree with Angel that I personally wouldn't
>>>>>> use
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> transportation company and I'd find other means to get there. If
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> reason I wanted to use this service then I would fight the battle
>>>>>> because
>>>>>> they are definitely discriminating.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Oagdu [mailto:oagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marianne
>>>>>> Denning
>>>>>> via Oagdu
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 3:03 PM
>>>>>> To: Angel; Ohio Association of Guide Dog Users List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Oagdu] Chinese Bus Service: Shouldn't they be
>>>>>> confronted
>>>>>> asUber is?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree that race or sex is not a choice but to live in America is a
>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>> If you want to live here you follow the laws here. You also have a
>>>>>> choice
>>>>>> about whether you accept or reject others no matter what your race
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> sex.
>>>>>> I think a great question was asked and, if anyone wants to use that
>>>>>> transportation it should be open to all. I know a woman from South
>>>>>> Korea
>>>>>> who has a guide dog so should she be denied services? I don't want
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> challenge anyone just to challenge them but they can't discriminate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/4/15, Angel via Oagdu <oagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> Race or sex is not a choice. Our choice to use animals as service
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> guides is a voluntary choice we each make. So comparing the two is
>>>>>>> wrong. I would agree with making an issue regarding this companies
>>>>>>> choice not to provide accommodation for guides if there were no
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> means of transport available. But, this is not the case. Many
>>>>>>> Asians
>>>>>>> feel dogs are unclean, and many eat them in their countries.
>>>>>>> Should
>>>>>>> we make them feel uncomfortable riding with us transport appealing
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> them. Particularly if they aren't well acquainted with either our
>>>>>>> language or customs just to make a point? When there are other
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> attractive choices for us to make regarding transport? I say, we
>>>>>>> should leave their transport alone, and ride other forms of
>>>>>>> transport.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "CHRIS TOLLE via Oagdu" <oagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> To: "Deanna Lewis" <DLewis at clovernook.org>; "Ohio Association of
>>>>>>> Guide
>>>>>>> Dog Users List" <oagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 9:26 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Oagdu] Chinese Bus Service: Shouldn't they be
>>>>>>> confronted
>>>>>>> asUber is?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Morning sir,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When God made me, he added an extra layer of hard headedness. I
>>>>>>>> believe that every time we allow any service, organization,
>>>>>>>> company,
>>>>>>>> group or entity of any kind to ignore our rights as citizens of
>>>>>>>> the USA, we weaken our ability to enforce the rights that we
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> achieved over the
>>>>>>>> past 25 years of ADA. We must stand up to such flagrant
>>>>>>>> disregard
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the LAW. If they were to refuse service to someone because of
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> color
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> or age, the world would be outraged & marching on the mall in DC.
>>>>>>>> As
>>>>>>>> they should. So should we. We must change the world we live in
>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the better so that my son, who has an eye issue, doesnâ?Tt have to
>>>>>>>> face
>>>>>>>> the same kind of treatment as I do, we do.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wouldnâ?Tt ride this bus or use this service butâ?¦. I would
>>>>>>>> totally
>>>>>>>> ware them out with the law. We have a strong voice if we unify &
>>>>>>>> stand as one
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> loud voice. We are not here to ask â?oPlease sir, can I have some
>>>>>>>> more.â?
>>>>>>>> We are demanding our equal place at the table & all rights &
>>>>>>>> privileges afforded to the rest of the folks at the table.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> tollebooth
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2015, at 8:54 AM, Deanna Lewis via Oagdu
>>>>>>>>> <oagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Chaim,
>>>>>>>>> I have never heard of this bus service. Do you by any chance
>>>>>>>>> remember the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> name of it? Do they advertise to the public, or mostly to the
>>>>>>>>> Asian
>>>>>>>>> population? Please don't misinterpret what I am asking, I am just
>>>>>>>>> trying to understand this company better, I am not trying to be
>>>>>>>>> prejudice.
>>>>>>>>> The whole thing sounds shifty, and I don't think I would enjoy
>>>>>>>>> riding on this service with or without a dog.
>>>>>>>>> Deanna and Pascal
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Oagdu [mailto:oagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chaim
>>>>>>>>> B.
>>>>>>>>> Segal
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> via Oagdu
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 11:41 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: oagdu at nfbnet.org; nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Oagdu] Chinese Bus Service: Shouldn't they be
>>>>>>>>> confronted
>>>>>>>>> as Uber is?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi All:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As I have been reading the posts on these lists concerning Uber's
>>>>>>>>> hearing, a thought is dawning on me which I thought I would put
>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Over the past few years, it seems as though we have had a major
>>>>>>>>> increase of Chinese immigrants to Ohio. I'm not sure how many of
>>>>>>>>> these people will
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> actually stay around, or how many of them are temporary
>>>>>>>>> residents.
>>>>>>>>> My apartment complex is swarming with students from the
>>>>>>>>> University
>>>>>>>>> of Dayton, whose millionaire parents are paying for them to
>>>>>>>>> attend
>>>>>>>>> school here. I don't think that this group has anything to do
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> the folks I am mentioning below.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Before moving to Brooklyn last year, my oldest brother brought it
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> our attention that there is now a Chinese bus service which
>>>>>>>>> travels
>>>>>>>>> between Dayton, Cincinnati, and New York City. Why only these
>>>>>>>>> three
>>>>>>>>> cities I don't know. Perhaps they stop in other places. Anyway, I
>>>>>>>>> was going to use
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> this service to take a trip, and researched the operation online.
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> called their phone number, and asked the Chinese bloke who
>>>>>>>>> answered
>>>>>>>>> the phone a few things about their service. As I expected, they
>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>> a no pets
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> policy. I then asked them if they were aware of the rights of
>>>>>>>>> guide
>>>>>>>>> dog users to be accompanied by their guide dogs in travel. The
>>>>>>>>> fellow had never heard of guide dog use before. He was adamant
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> I cannot travel on his service with a dog. Before this, I asked
>>>>>>>>> him
>>>>>>>>> if I could be given assistance off the bus at rest stops, and he
>>>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>>>> "no."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I reported my finding to Seeing Eye, and I believe it was Walt
>>>>>>>>> Sutton who
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> tried to give them a call. The number I passed on to him (which I
>>>>>>>>> forget)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> turned out to be that of a Chinese Restaurant. He recommended
>>>>>>>>> that I
>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> not bother with this service, as for all anybody knows, they may
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> operating somewhat illegally anyway.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My oldest brother paid us a visit over the summer and used this
>>>>>>>>> Chinese bus service to get himself back to New York. Before using
>>>>>>>>> it, he thought it might be a viable means for my (blind) brother
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> I to travel to and from New York. After using it himself, he has
>>>>>>>>> changed his mind. The bus does not stop at any designated station
>>>>>>>>> terminal. They pick people up in neighborhoods which are out in
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> middle of nowhere. In New York, they drop people off in
>>>>>>>>> Chinatown,
>>>>>>>>> and leave it to them to travel with their luggage to where they
>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> go. It's more-or-less a bare-bones service.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure how crowded the buses are, but the bus, according to
>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>> brother, is not nearly as comfortable as a Greyhound. Baring this
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> mind, it's probably not a good idea for any of us to travel on
>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> service using a guide. Moreover, I would probably not go to bat,
>>>>>>>>> unless I
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> really thought I would use this service.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What does concern me, aside from the fact that to them a guide
>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>> is as good as a pet, is the fact that they seem the least concern
>>>>>>>>> with regard to assisting any blind person, even if they are not
>>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> dog.
>>>>>>>>> Parenthetically, I believe I asked the guy if their buses had
>>>>>>>>> wheelchair lifts, and apparently they don't. It seems to me that
>>>>>>>>> this service may be
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> in violation of the ADA under many accounts. I'm wondering if
>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>> people should be informed that if they are operating a service in
>>>>>>>>> the United States, they must play by the rules. While I strongly
>>>>>>>>> feel the answer is obviously "Yes", I'm wondering if taking them
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> task will really accomplish anything. Somebody told me that the
>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>> they can even have a service like this is to do things under the
>>>>>>>>> table. Even if they are confronted, will they really listen?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What do you all think?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chaim
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chaim B. Segal
>>>>>>>>> Customer Service Representative: Sinclair Community College,
>>>>>>>>> Dayton,
>>>>>>>>> Ohio
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Every man, woman every boy and girl, Let your love light shine
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> make a better world
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Daryl Hall And John Oates
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
>>>>>> Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
>>>>>> (513) 607-6053
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Oagdu mailing list
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
>>>>> Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
>>>>> (513) 607-6053
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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>
>
> --
> Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
> Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
> (513) 607-6053
>
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