[Oagdu] Chinese Bus Service: Shouldn't they be confrontedasUber is?
meandthedog at oberlin.net
meandthedog at oberlin.net
Thu Feb 5 00:56:42 UTC 2015
> Thank you Marianne. We are one people. I lived my life around civil
rights, race Class and Sex.
I am now dedicated to us. it is time for us to unite for our rights. I
find that the NFB. I a great
organization. I am a member with pride to be part of OAGu and NFB.
Lets try to temper our words and realize that blindness may a nuisance,
but the education of
the sighted is an important part of our work. Megan and the P.
I did not choose to be blind. I am given the same protections under
> the law as any other citizens. If I need a dog, cane or any other
> travel aid to get around independently then if you have a business and
> deny access based on my disability you are violating my civil rights.
> You don't have to allow me into your private home or car with my dog
> but if you own a business it is different.
>
> On 2/4/15, Angel via Oagdu <oagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> The only "rights we have are those afforded us by the constitution. The
>> civil rights won not by "colored" people, I personally take great
>> offence at
>> the use of that word, and would stand up against anyone calling any of
>> my
>> family "colored". Too repeat what you said, "That said", to protect the
>> civil rights guaranteed by our constitution and its amendments. So the
>> right to equal treatment given to various races of people is not the
>> same as
>> that afforded those whose choice is to employ the services of guide or
>> service animals. To imply exactness, rather than similarity, is to
>> cheapen
>> the struggle won by those who fought so valiantly for their
>> constitutional
>> rights. Secondly, we know nothing about the citizenship of these people
>> who
>> choose to ride this service, or whether the service is legal, or
>> private.
>> If either, it falls outside the law simply by its existence. Therefore
>> to
>> wish to use such a service might be putting oneself outside the law.
>> Thereby causing the application of a law to it is ridiculous. If its
>> legal
>> reason for existence is doubtful in the first place. I won't post any
>> longer concerning this subject, in any case. As I haven't any longer a
>> "dog
>> in this fight". As the subject is emotional and minds can't be changed
>> either way. I can tell you this: If I owned a public establishment or
>> service and a person owning a guide were to attempt to use that
>> establishment or service , and if that person used that word in my
>> presence, I would gladly serve the sentence, and pay the fine to keep
>> such a
>> person out of my business. It would be a privilege too.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Chris Tolle via Oagdu" <oagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> To: <meandthedog at oberlin.net>; "Ohio Association of Guide Dog Users
>> List"
>> <oagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 6:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Oagdu] Chinese Bus Service: Shouldn't they be
>> confrontedasUber
>> is?
>>
>>
>>> Forgive any errors in grammar or spelling, I am using dictation to
>>> write
>>> this. I disagree that because I use a guy dog that in someway is not
>>> comparable to race or to sex. A guy dog is a companion and in the eyes
>>> of
>>> some a tool to balance the playing field for those of us who cannot
>>> see. I
>>>
>>> was born this way just as a colored person is born colored and a person
>>> is
>>>
>>> born their individual sex. I'm old enough to understand the very
>>> delicate
>>>
>>> issues of all three protected classes. I believe the old adage says
>>> "obey the laws of your land'. It took us a very long time to get laws
>>> on
>>> the books protecting the use of service dogs. Why should we set aside
>>> those laws to accommodate the fears, culture, phobias etc. of people
>>> who
>>> aren't were first of all not US citizens and second of all guests in
>>> our
>>> country? I have nothing disparaging to say about anyone no matter
>>> where
>>> they're from the color of their skin or what sex they happen to be. I
>>> believe that the word says in the beginning God created.
>>>
>>> That said, I like the person who made the comment that those who
>>> choose
>>> to ignore the individual egg nor the whole. The reason that the civil
>>> rights act of 1960s was as successful as it was is that people were
>>> willing to put their very lives on the line to defend what they believe
>>> in. They came together and with one voice spoke to the nation. If we
>>> want
>>>
>>> unequal place at the table, we must be willing to come together and to
>>> stand up for the rights that we have earned and have been given to us.
>>> If
>>>
>>> a law is broken no matter who breaks it there needs to be a change in
>>> how
>>> they do business. I would not use this service but I would also make
>>> sure
>>>
>>> that their behavior was addressed. What good are right if we will not
>>> stand up to defend them when someone acts in accordance with taking
>>> them
>>> away from us
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Feb 4, 2015, at 4:18 PM, Megan Schief via Oagdu <oagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A guide is a choice. Yet for me it is also the best for my needs.
>>>> A company that says the'll talk to each individual takes away
>>>> the power of the whole. Companies don't want to deal with such issues.
>>>> I don't know anything more attractive then when my MS. P. stops for a
>>>> traffic check. San Fran, go for it.Megan and MS. P.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Andy I totally agree with you. I travelled to Jermany, Hungary and
>>>>> Austria with my guide dog and had very few issues. I found the laws
>>>>> in Austria and Hungary to be very different from U.S. laws but I
>>>>> followed them with no issues. I also went to Bosnia, Croatia, and
>>>>> Italy and chose to leave my dog at home because of concerns with wild
>>>>> dogs on some of the countries. I didn't expect them to change for
>>>>> me.
>>>>> I changed my behavior. If I chose to live outside of the U.S. I
>>>>> would
>>>>> study their laws and try to follow them.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/4/15, Andy Leach <aleach5 at woh.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi again everyone:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Earlier today I indicated that maybe there are bigger fish to fry
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> maybe
>>>>>> that going after these guys may not be the best and most productive
>>>>>> use
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> our time. However, a couple of list members have expressed their
>>>>>> thoughts
>>>>>> and it has forced me to reconsider my position. First off,
>>>>>> traveling
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> my guide may be a voluntary choice on my part, but it is certainly
>>>>>> nobody
>>>>>> else's business and it is not my job to accommodate that person
>>>>>> because
>>>>>> of a
>>>>>> phobia or a cultural issue. At least I stand by this position in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> United
>>>>>> States of America. This being said, if I ever were traveling to
>>>>>> ASIA
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Middle East, my dog likely wouldn't be welcome so she would have to
>>>>>> stay
>>>>>> home while I was there. If a person isn't happy with the laws and
>>>>>> regulations here, they don't have to stay!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, that being said, I agree with Angel that I personally wouldn't
>>>>>> use
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> transportation company and I'd find other means to get there. If
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> reason I wanted to use this service then I would fight the battle
>>>>>> because
>>>>>> they are definitely discriminating.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Oagdu [mailto:oagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marianne
>>>>>> Denning
>>>>>> via Oagdu
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 3:03 PM
>>>>>> To: Angel; Ohio Association of Guide Dog Users List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Oagdu] Chinese Bus Service: Shouldn't they be
>>>>>> confronted
>>>>>> asUber is?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree that race or sex is not a choice but to live in America is a
>>>>>> choice.
>>>>>> If you want to live here you follow the laws here. You also have a
>>>>>> choice
>>>>>> about whether you accept or reject others no matter what your race
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> sex.
>>>>>> I think a great question was asked and, if anyone wants to use that
>>>>>> transportation it should be open to all. I know a woman from South
>>>>>> Korea
>>>>>> who has a guide dog so should she be denied services? I don't want
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> challenge anyone just to challenge them but they can't discriminate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/4/15, Angel via Oagdu <oagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> Race or sex is not a choice. Our choice to use animals as service
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> guides is a voluntary choice we each make. So comparing the two is
>>>>>>> wrong. I would agree with making an issue regarding this companies
>>>>>>> choice not to provide accommodation for guides if there were no
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> means of transport available. But, this is not the case. Many
>>>>>>> Asians
>>>>>>> feel dogs are unclean, and many eat them in their countries.
>>>>>>> Should
>>>>>>> we make them feel uncomfortable riding with us transport appealing
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> them. Particularly if they aren't well acquainted with either our
>>>>>>> language or customs just to make a point? When there are other
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> attractive choices for us to make regarding transport? I say, we
>>>>>>> should leave their transport alone, and ride other forms of
>>>>>>> transport.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "CHRIS TOLLE via Oagdu" <oagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> To: "Deanna Lewis" <DLewis at clovernook.org>; "Ohio Association of
>>>>>>> Guide
>>>>>>> Dog Users List" <oagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 9:26 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Oagdu] Chinese Bus Service: Shouldn't they be
>>>>>>> confronted
>>>>>>> asUber is?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Morning sir,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When God made me, he added an extra layer of hard headedness. I
>>>>>>>> believe that every time we allow any service, organization,
>>>>>>>> company,
>>>>>>>> group or entity of any kind to ignore our rights as citizens of
>>>>>>>> the USA, we weaken our ability to enforce the rights that we
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> achieved over the
>>>>>>>> past 25 years of ADA. We must stand up to such flagrant
>>>>>>>> disregard
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the LAW. If they were to refuse service to someone because of
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> color
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> or age, the world would be outraged & marching on the mall in DC.
>>>>>>>> As
>>>>>>>> they should. So should we. We must change the world we live in
>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the better so that my son, who has an eye issue, doesn’t have to
>>>>>>>> face
>>>>>>>> the same kind of treatment as I do, we do.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wouldn’t ride this bus or use this service but…. I would
>>>>>>>> totally
>>>>>>>> ware them out with the law. We have a strong voice if we unify &
>>>>>>>> stand as one
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> loud voice. We are not here to ask “Please sir, can I have some
>>>>>>>> more.â€
>>>>>>>> We are demanding our equal place at the table & all rights &
>>>>>>>> privileges afforded to the rest of the folks at the table.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> tollebooth
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2015, at 8:54 AM, Deanna Lewis via Oagdu
>>>>>>>>> <oagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Chaim,
>>>>>>>>> I have never heard of this bus service. Do you by any chance
>>>>>>>>> remember the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> name of it? Do they advertise to the public, or mostly to the
>>>>>>>>> Asian
>>>>>>>>> population? Please don't misinterpret what I am asking, I am just
>>>>>>>>> trying to understand this company better, I am not trying to be
>>>>>>>>> prejudice.
>>>>>>>>> The whole thing sounds shifty, and I don't think I would enjoy
>>>>>>>>> riding on this service with or without a dog.
>>>>>>>>> Deanna and Pascal
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Oagdu [mailto:oagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chaim
>>>>>>>>> B.
>>>>>>>>> Segal
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> via Oagdu
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 11:41 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: oagdu at nfbnet.org; nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Oagdu] Chinese Bus Service: Shouldn't they be
>>>>>>>>> confronted
>>>>>>>>> as Uber is?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi All:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As I have been reading the posts on these lists concerning Uber's
>>>>>>>>> hearing, a thought is dawning on me which I thought I would put
>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Over the past few years, it seems as though we have had a major
>>>>>>>>> increase of Chinese immigrants to Ohio. I'm not sure how many of
>>>>>>>>> these people will
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> actually stay around, or how many of them are temporary
>>>>>>>>> residents.
>>>>>>>>> My apartment complex is swarming with students from the
>>>>>>>>> University
>>>>>>>>> of Dayton, whose millionaire parents are paying for them to
>>>>>>>>> attend
>>>>>>>>> school here. I don't think that this group has anything to do
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> the folks I am mentioning below.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Before moving to Brooklyn last year, my oldest brother brought it
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> our attention that there is now a Chinese bus service which
>>>>>>>>> travels
>>>>>>>>> between Dayton, Cincinnati, and New York City. Why only these
>>>>>>>>> three
>>>>>>>>> cities I don't know. Perhaps they stop in other places. Anyway, I
>>>>>>>>> was going to use
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> this service to take a trip, and researched the operation online.
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> called their phone number, and asked the Chinese bloke who
>>>>>>>>> answered
>>>>>>>>> the phone a few things about their service. As I expected, they
>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>> a no pets
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> policy. I then asked them if they were aware of the rights of
>>>>>>>>> guide
>>>>>>>>> dog users to be accompanied by their guide dogs in travel. The
>>>>>>>>> fellow had never heard of guide dog use before. He was adamant
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> I cannot travel on his service with a dog. Before this, I asked
>>>>>>>>> him
>>>>>>>>> if I could be given assistance off the bus at rest stops, and he
>>>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>>>> "no."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I reported my finding to Seeing Eye, and I believe it was Walt
>>>>>>>>> Sutton who
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> tried to give them a call. The number I passed on to him (which I
>>>>>>>>> forget)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> turned out to be that of a Chinese Restaurant. He recommended
>>>>>>>>> that I
>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> not bother with this service, as for all anybody knows, they may
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> operating somewhat illegally anyway.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My oldest brother paid us a visit over the summer and used this
>>>>>>>>> Chinese bus service to get himself back to New York. Before using
>>>>>>>>> it, he thought it might be a viable means for my (blind) brother
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> I to travel to and from New York. After using it himself, he has
>>>>>>>>> changed his mind. The bus does not stop at any designated station
>>>>>>>>> terminal. They pick people up in neighborhoods which are out in
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> middle of nowhere. In New York, they drop people off in
>>>>>>>>> Chinatown,
>>>>>>>>> and leave it to them to travel with their luggage to where they
>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> go. It's more-or-less a bare-bones service.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure how crowded the buses are, but the bus, according to
>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>> brother, is not nearly as comfortable as a Greyhound. Baring this
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> mind, it's probably not a good idea for any of us to travel on
>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> service using a guide. Moreover, I would probably not go to bat,
>>>>>>>>> unless I
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> really thought I would use this service.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What does concern me, aside from the fact that to them a guide
>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>> is as good as a pet, is the fact that they seem the least concern
>>>>>>>>> with regard to assisting any blind person, even if they are not
>>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> dog.
>>>>>>>>> Parenthetically, I believe I asked the guy if their buses had
>>>>>>>>> wheelchair lifts, and apparently they don't. It seems to me that
>>>>>>>>> this service may be
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> in violation of the ADA under many accounts. I'm wondering if
>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>> people should be informed that if they are operating a service in
>>>>>>>>> the United States, they must play by the rules. While I strongly
>>>>>>>>> feel the answer is obviously "Yes", I'm wondering if taking them
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> task will really accomplish anything. Somebody told me that the
>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>> they can even have a service like this is to do things under the
>>>>>>>>> table. Even if they are confronted, will they really listen?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What do you all think?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chaim
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chaim B. Segal
>>>>>>>>> Customer Service Representative: Sinclair Community College,
>>>>>>>>> Dayton,
>>>>>>>>> Ohio
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Every man, woman every boy and girl, Let your love light shine
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> make a better world
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Daryl Hall And John Oates
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Oagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
>>>>>> Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
>>>>>> (513) 607-6053
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
>>>>> Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
>>>>> (513) 607-6053
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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>
>
> --
> Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
> Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
> (513) 607-6053
>
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