[Ohio-talk] Work Tolorence

Wed May 21 05:21:03 UTC 2014

Hi Colleen, Marianne, and all,

I totally agree on the role model front.  I had only one really strong
role model for most of my childhood, and while she is a fabulous role
model to have and someone who is still a great mentor figure to me
now, I wish I had been exposed to more blind adults when I was 6, 7,
10 years old.  I still have some residual vision that I can use, and
it was a heck of a lot better 15 years ago than what it is now.  I
think that, because when I was really young I didn't hang around with
many blind kids and had mostly sighted friends from Girl Scouts, dance
class, etc, that I really didn't think I was different in any way from
my classmates.  I don't remember how I perceived myself as a six year
old, but I knew the fact that I took eye drops and had an aid in class
didn't phase me so much as mobility lessons and braille time in school
did.  I could have very well thought that the way I saw things was the
same way everyone else saw things.  I think that that was what made
switching from large print to braille as a first grade student really
difficult for me.  My braille literacy story is neither here nor there
for this particular thread, but I really did think that braille was
the end all thing that would make me different from my classmates, and
the thing that would keep me from continuing to fit in.  I really
didn't start regularly talking to or hanging out with other blind kids
my age till I was about thirteen or fourteen, and having peers who
were blind was really what I think helped me to gain some perspective
about myself.  I also started meeting more blind adults at around that
same time through the mentoring program, so that contributed to my
understanding too.

I actually have met all three kinds of people Marianne
described---those who don't want to associate with other blind people,
those who do it to an extreme and either spend a lot of time on a
computer chatting with them or who almost exclusively talk to blind
people, and those who are in the middle and are well-adjusted.  I'm
happy to say that the first two types of people are minorities, but
they are out there.  I have a hunch that these communication styles
are linked to how well adjusted a person is, and how accepting of
their blindness and independence they really are, but I don't exactly
have a clear argument to back it up.

On 5/20/14, Marianne Denning via Ohio-talk <ohio-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> There was a time when blind people all hung together, then a time when
> we were almost discouraged from associating with other blind people
> and now I think we are somewhere between the two extremes and that is
> good.  I also think that technology makes it easier for blind people
> all around the world to communicate with each other and that is a good
> thing. I agree, that adult roll models are important for blind
> children and their parents.  I wish I had that opportunity growing up.
>
> On 5/20/14, Colleen Roth via Ohio-talk <ohio-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hi Kaiti,
>> For those of us who were raised mostly around sighted people we do not
>> have
>> as much experience with the blind culture.
>> I only attended first grade and sixth grade with blind students. In high
>> school there were only 2 blind students at St. Ursula Academy.
>> My contacts with blind role models were very limited.
>> Therefore I didn't learn all of the cultural nuances and phrases. I was
>> strongly encouraged to behave in ways which would make more more
>> acceptable
>> to sighted people.
>> I think it is important for blind children to have good adult role models
>> so
>> that they know
>> what blind adults can do.
>> Sometimes people around blind children or blind adults who have had
>> little
>> or no experience with blindness think we do so well when in fact we are
>> ordinary or even less than ordinary in the things we do.
>> Colleen Roth
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Kaiti Shelton via Ohio-talk <ohio-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> To: NFB of Ohio Announcement and Discussion List <ohio-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Date: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 05:07:08 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Ohio-talk] Work Tolorence
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I'm a bit late on the conversation, but the cultural stuff is kind of
>>> interesting to me.  While I totally agree that BSVI needs some serious
>>> changing, I have limited experience with them because I am still
>>> working towards my degree.  So, I will speak about the culture stuff.
>>>
>>> I think that although the blind do not have such an organized culture
>>> as the deaf, that there are certain things we do when we're in groups
>>> that we wouldn't normally do with sighted peers.  For example, I
>>> usually dumb down my explanations of braille, notetakers, etc for
>>> sighted people who are curious enough to ask about them.  When I'm
>>> with a group of blind people about my age, we freely talk about the
>>> stuff we use on a daily basis.  A really popular thing for us to do
>>> when we were about 16 or so was to write BrailleNote documents which
>>> made weird sounds.  One of our friends was so good at it that he could
>>> make Keynote Gold sound like it had a southern accent, and he also
>>> could make it sound like it was beat boxing.  It sounds incredibly
>>> childish, but we thought it was the funniest thing for a while.  It
>>> was something unique to our group, that sighted kids our age just
>>> would not have understood.
>>>
>>> I have also heard some very interesting terminology in various social
>>> circles such as the NABS list.  I have heard the term "blink" before
>>> too, and though personally I think it is a bit weird, I know people
>>> who use that term.  I also know people who describe canes as "sticks"
>>> and that is a different matter because it doesn't accurately teach
>>> sighted people those "stick" sayers come into contact with.  One
>>> person on NABS has consistently referred to sighted people in kind of
>>> a condescending way, calling them "Old sighty."  I know there are
>>> groups out there who really don't like to be around sighted people for
>>> perceived injustices towards them, and that's a cultural thing.  Not
>>> to mention that I've seen the blindisms of rocking actually come into
>>> play, not because the blind people wanted them to but just because
>>> it's weird for a sighted person to see, so they're less likely to
>>> socialize with someone who can't sit still and have a conversation.
>>>
>>> I guess it really depends on how you look at it.  Definitely, we are
>>> not as culturized as the deaf, but I do think that groups of blind
>>> people have quirks which create a sort of culture surrounding their
>>> blindness.  And, Colleen, I agree about the ASL.  I took a
>>> sign-singing choir class that used pigeon for both semesters last
>>> year, and it was much less efficient than ASL.  Pigeon is basically
>>> only the ASL symbol signs with no finger spelling at all, but the main
>>> drawback to it is that the translations are very weird.  I know enough
>>> that a deaf person could have a simple conversation with me using it,
>>> but they would probably have to think about what I was saying to make
>>> sense of it.  It would be like if a person speaking to you only knew
>>> certain words, and didn't use conjunctions at all, or could not add
>>> endings like ING or ER to the endings of words.  My favorite
>>> translation happened when we were signing My Favorite Things from The
>>> Sound of Music for our Christmas concert.  The line that says,
>>> "Doorbells and slaybells and schnitzel with noodles," was translated
>>> to Doorbell ring, Christmas spaghetti.  This was due largely in part
>>> to the lack of a sign for schnitzel, but Christmas spaghetti became a
>>> catch phrase in the class whenever we had a translation which was
>>> particularly weird.
>>>
>>> On 5/19/14, COLLEEN ROTH via Ohio-talk <ohio-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> >  Hello,
>>> > Well I wouldn't say that blind people have a disability culture.
>>> > I think deaf people have a deaf culture because of the fact that they
>>> > have
>>> > had to find different ways of communicating. I do think that some
>>> > people
>>> > who
>>> > are deaf may feel isolated due to the challenges they have in
>>> > communicating
>>> > with others. There are also some people who want to use a system to
>>> > communicate which other deaf people might not agree with. I know that
>>> > there
>>> > are some deaf people who want to spell each word when they communicate
>>> > and
>>> > some want to use ASL while others prefer total communication. I thin
>>> > that
>>> > the pendulum is swinging toward the middle now and ASL is more
>>> > accepted
>>> > than
>>> > it was in the mid sixties to the mid seventies for example.
>>> > I can't remember what the communication system is called which has
>>> > people
>>> > communicating with each other by spelling each word.
>>> > I for one am glad that ASL is more accepted now for ease of
>>> > communication.
>>> > We could probably compare this to Braille.
>>> > Deaf people in different parts of the country have their own little
>>> > short-hand which is understood by those they spend time with.
>>> > I think some blind people may have had some of that kind of lingo and
>>> > cutesy
>>> > sayings particularly at schools for the blind.
>>> > I was aghast the first time I heard someone refer to themselves as a
>>> > Blink.
>>> > I had no clue what they were talking about and to this day I never use
>>> > that
>>> > term.
>>> > Colleen Roth
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: Arlie Ray via Ohio-talk <ohio-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> > To: ohio-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> > Date: Sunday, May 18, 2014 8:51 am
>>> > Subject: [Ohio-talk] Work Tolorence
>>> >
>>> >ar
>>> >ar
>>> >ar Hi List Viewers,
>>> >ar
>>> >ar Your concerns about this work tolorence matter are completely valid.
>>> >ar Consequently, I am trying to become a job developer because I think
>>> >ar counselors and employment specialists are missing one key resource;
>>> > they
>>> >ar do
>>> >ar not understand disability culture. Not having this understanding
>>> > means
>>> >ar that
>>> >ar all jobseekers with disabilities get treated the same. Hence the
>>> > need
>>> > for
>>> >ar a
>>> >ar "work tolorence" program. A blanket program for counselors who only
>>> >ar understand disability from a "how fast can you get the job done"
>>> > point
>>> > of
>>> >ar view.
>>> >ar
>>> >ar Blanket programs are wrong, cause too many inconsistencies, and are
>>> >ar antiquated ways of thinking. There is no unified theory for
>>> > assisting
>>> > any
>>> >ar job seeker. Everyone needs help in different areas, from soft skills
>>> >ar training to resume writing. Some people only need a piece of
>>> > assistive
>>> >ar technology and they can hit the ground running. As blind people, we
>>> > just
>>> >ar can't see, but without an understanding of disability culture we are
>>> > all
>>> >ar to
>>> >ar often treated as if we can't think.
>>> >ar
>>> >ar I hope this did not sound to preachy.
>>> >ar
>>> >ar Cheers,
>>> >ar Arlie Ray
>>> >ar _______________________________________________
>>> >ar Ohio-talk mailing list
>>> >ar Ohio-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> >ar http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/ohio-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> >ar To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> > for
>>> >ar Ohio-talk:
>>> >ar
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/ohio-talk_nfbnet.org/n8tnv%40att.net
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti Shelton
>>> University of Dayton 2016.
>>> Music Therapy, Psychology, Philosophy
>>> President, Ohio Association of Blind Students
>>> Sigma Alpha Iota-Delta Sigma
>>>
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>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
> Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
> (513) 607-6053
>
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-- 
Kaiti Shelton
University of Dayton 2016.
Music Therapy, Psychology, Philosophy
President, Ohio Association of Blind Students
Sigma Alpha Iota-Delta Sigma