[Ohio-talk] Work Tolorence

Wed May 21 22:41:57 UTC 2014

Hi Kaiti,
When I was growing up post of the people in my life were sighted.
When I went to OSSB for sixth grade it was very traumatic for me.
I was used to being around sfghted people and some of the blind people I encountered had some strange behaviors.
I also think I didn't want to befriend my classmates and those in the dorm because I didn't want to be there.
I went home every weekend and I hated being there. Looking back I am glad I had the experience but I didn't even find some of the blind teachers very inspiring.
I do not want to offend anyone but I just didn't know how to cope.
When I attended a summer program in 1969 it was better because I had spent some time with blind adults by that time.
I cannot tell you if I have more blind or sighted friends. I have been asked this many times.
I think that the important thing is that I do not decide if I am going to be friends with someone based on their Visual Acuity.
I like to think that I have several people who are both blind and sighted who are part of my family in the Federation.
For me my lack of travel skills was a distinct drawback for quite a while.
Dr. Jernigan's speech on the Nature of Independence helped me to accept myself in this area whether others do or not.
At this point it doesn't matter because of other physical problems.
I know that I can call many of you at any time if I need to do that and this is a blessing.
On the other hand, I know that many of you know that you could call me at any time.
I will even include those who hate cats. Please do not tell me how they should expire however.
Let's promote Braille and anything we can use to write it.
Colleen Roth

----- Original Message -----
From: Kaiti Shelton via Ohio-talk <ohio-talk at nfbnet.org>
To: NFB of Ohio Announcement and Discussion List <ohio-talk at nfbnet.org>
Date: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 01:21:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Ohio-talk] Work Tolorence

>
>
> Hi Colleen, Marianne, and all,
> 
> I totally agree on the role model front.  I had only one really strong
> role model for most of my childhood, and while she is a fabulous role
> model to have and someone who is still a great mentor figure to me
> now, I wish I had been exposed to more blind adults when I was 6, 7,
> 10 years old.  I still have some residual vision that I can use, and
> it was a heck of a lot better 15 years ago than what it is now.  I
> think that, because when I was really young I didn't hang around with
> many blind kids and had mostly sighted friends from Girl Scouts, dance
> class, etc, that I really didn't think I was different in any way from
> my classmates.  I don't remember how I perceived myself as a six year
> old, but I knew the fact that I took eye drops and had an aid in class
> didn't phase me so much as mobility lessons and braille time in school
> did.  I could have very well thought that the way I saw things was the
> same way everyone else saw things.  I think that that was what made
> switching from large print to braille as a first grade student really
> difficult for me.  My braille literacy story is neither here nor there
> for this particular thread, but I really did think that braille was
> the end all thing that would make me different from my classmates, and
> the thing that would keep me from continuing to fit in.  I really
> didn't start regularly talking to or hanging out with other blind kids
> my age till I was about thirteen or fourteen, and having peers who
> were blind was really what I think helped me to gain some perspective
> about myself.  I also started meeting more blind adults at around that
> same time through the mentoring program, so that contributed to my
> understanding too.
> 
> I actually have met all three kinds of people Marianne
> described---those who don't want to associate with other blind people,
> those who do it to an extreme and either spend a lot of time on a
> computer chatting with them or who almost exclusively talk to blind
> people, and those who are in the middle and are well-adjusted.  I'm
> happy to say that the first two types of people are minorities, but
> they are out there.  I have a hunch that these communication styles
> are linked to how well adjusted a person is, and how accepting of
> their blindness and independence they really are, but I don't exactly
> have a clear argument to back it up.
> 
> On 5/20/14, Marianne Denning via Ohio-talk <ohio-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > There was a time when blind people all hung together, then a time when
> > we were almost discouraged from associating with other blind people
> > and now I think we are somewhere between the two extremes and that is
> > good.  I also think that technology makes it easier for blind people
> > all around the world to communicate with each other and that is a good
> > thing. I agree, that adult roll models are important for blind
> > children and their parents.  I wish I had that opportunity growing up.
> >
> > On 5/20/14, Colleen Roth via Ohio-talk <ohio-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >ar Hi Kaiti,
> >ar For those of us who were raised mostly around sighted people we do not
> >ar have
> >ar as much experience with the blind culture.
> >ar I only attended first grade and sixth grade with blind students. In high
> >ar school there were only 2 blind students at St. Ursula Academy.
> >ar My contacts with blind role models were very limited.
> >ar Therefore I didn't learn all of the cultural nuances and phrases. I was
> >ar strongly encouraged to behave in ways which would make more more
> >ar acceptable
> >ar to sighted people.
> >ar I think it is important for blind children to have good adult role models
> >ar so
> >ar that they know
> >ar what blind adults can do.
> >ar Sometimes people around blind children or blind adults who have had
> >ar little
> >ar or no experience with blindness think we do so well when in fact we are
> >ar ordinary or even less than ordinary in the things we do.
> >ar Colleen Roth
> >ar
> >ar
> >ar
> >ar
> >ar ----- Original Message -----
> >ar From: Kaiti Shelton via Ohio-talk <ohio-talk at nfbnet.org>
> >ar To: NFB of Ohio Announcement and Discussion List <ohio-talk at nfbnet.org>
> >ar Date: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 05:07:08 AM
> >ar Subject: Re: [Ohio-talk] Work Tolorence
> >ar
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> I'm a bit late on the conversation, but the cultural stuff is kind of
> >>> interesting to me.  While I totally agree that BSVI needs some serious
> >>> changing, I have limited experience with them because I am still
> >>> working towards my degree.  So, I will speak about the culture stuff.
> >>>
> >>> I think that although the blind do not have such an organized culture
> >>> as the deaf, that there are certain things we do when we're in groups
> >>> that we wouldn't normally do with sighted peers.  For example, I
> >>> usually dumb down my explanations of braille, notetakers, etc for
> >>> sighted people who are curious enough to ask about them.  When I'm
> >>> with a group of blind people about my age, we freely talk about the
> >>> stuff we use on a daily basis.  A really popular thing for us to do
> >>> when we were about 16 or so was to write BrailleNote documents which
> >>> made weird sounds.  One of our friends was so good at it that he could
> >>> make Keynote Gold sound like it had a southern accent, and he also
> >>> could make it sound like it was beat boxing.  It sounds incredibly
> >>> childish, but we thought it was the funniest thing for a while.  It
> >>> was something unique to our group, that sighted kids our age just
> >>> would not have understood.
> >>>
> >>> I have also heard some very interesting terminology in various social
> >>> circles such as the NABS list.  I have heard the term "blink" before
> >>> too, and though personally I think it is a bit weird, I know people
> >>> who use that term.  I also know people who describe canes as "sticks"
> >>> and that is a different matter because it doesn't accurately teach
> >>> sighted people those "stick" sayers come into contact with.  One
> >>> person on NABS has consistently referred to sighted people in kind of
> >>> a condescending way, calling them "Old sighty."  I know there are
> >>> groups out there who really don't like to be around sighted people for
> >>> perceived injustices towards them, and that's a cultural thing.  Not
> >>> to mention that I've seen the blindisms of rocking actually come into
> >>> play, not because the blind people wanted them to but just because
> >>> it's weird for a sighted person to see, so they're less likely to
> >>> socialize with someone who can't sit still and have a conversation.
> >>>
> >>> I guess it really depends on how you look at it.  Definitely, we are
> >>> not as culturized as the deaf, but I do think that groups of blind
> >>> people have quirks which create a sort of culture surrounding their
> >>> blindness.  And, Colleen, I agree about the ASL.  I took a
> >>> sign-singing choir class that used pigeon for both semesters last
> >>> year, and it was much less efficient than ASL.  Pigeon is basically
> >>> only the ASL symbol signs with no finger spelling at all, but the main
> >>> drawback to it is that the translations are very weird.  I know enough
> >>> that a deaf person could have a simple conversation with me using it,
> >>> but they would probably have to think about what I was saying to make
> >>> sense of it.  It would be like if a person speaking to you only knew
> >>> certain words, and didn't use conjunctions at all, or could not add
> >>> endings like ING or ER to the endings of words.  My favorite
> >>> translation happened when we were signing My Favorite Things from The
> >>> Sound of Music for our Christmas concert.  The line that says,
> >>> "Doorbells and slaybells and schnitzel with noodles," was translated
> >>> to Doorbell ring, Christmas spaghetti.  This was due largely in part
> >>> to the lack of a sign for schnitzel, but Christmas spaghetti became a
> >>> catch phrase in the class whenever we had a translation which was
> >>> particularly weird.
> >>>
> >>> On 5/19/14, COLLEEN ROTH via Ohio-talk <ohio-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>> >  Hello,
> >>> > Well I wouldn't say that blind people have a disability culture.
> >>> > I think deaf people have a deaf culture because of the fact that they
> >>> > have
> >>> > had to find different ways of communicating. I do think that some
> >>> > people
> >>> > who
> >>> > are deaf may feel isolated due to the challenges they have in
> >>> > communicating
> >>> > with others. There are also some people who want to use a system to
> >>> > communicate which other deaf people might not agree with. I know that
> >>> > there
> >>> > are some deaf people who want to spell each word when they communicate
> >>> > and
> >>> > some want to use ASL while others prefer total communication. I thin
> >>> > that
> >>> > the pendulum is swinging toward the middle now and ASL is more
> >>> > accepted
> >>> > than
> >>> > it was in the mid sixties to the mid seventies for example.
> >>> > I can't remember what the communication system is called which has
> >>> > people
> >>> > communicating with each other by spelling each word.
> >>> > I for one am glad that ASL is more accepted now for ease of
> >>> > communication.
> >>> > We could probably compare this to Braille.
> >>> > Deaf people in different parts of the country have their own little
> >>> > short-hand which is understood by those they spend time with.
> >>> > I think some blind people may have had some of that kind of lingo and
> >>> > cutesy
> >>> > sayings particularly at schools for the blind.
> >>> > I was aghast the first time I heard someone refer to themselves as a
> >>> > Blink.
> >>> > I had no clue what they were talking about and to this day I never use
> >>> > that
> >>> > term.
> >>> > Colleen Roth
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > ----- Original Message -----
> >>> > From: Arlie Ray via Ohio-talk <ohio-talk at nfbnet.org>
> >>> > To: ohio-talk at nfbnet.org
> >>> > Date: Sunday, May 18, 2014 8:51 am
> >>> > Subject: [Ohio-talk] Work Tolorence
> >>> >
> >>> >ar
> >>> >ar
> >>> >ar Hi List Viewers,
> >>> >ar
> >>> >ar Your concerns about this work tolorence matter are completely valid.
> >>> >ar Consequently, I am trying to become a job developer because I think
> >>> >ar counselors and employment specialists are missing one key resource;
> >>> > they
> >>> >ar do
> >>> >ar not understand disability culture. Not having this understanding
> >>> > means
> >>> >ar that
> >>> >ar all jobseekers with disabilities get treated the same. Hence the
> >>> > need
> >>> > for
> >>> >ar a
> >>> >ar "work tolorence" program. A blanket program for counselors who only
> >>> >ar understand disability from a "how fast can you get the job done"
> >>> > point
> >>> > of
> >>> >ar view.
> >>> >ar
> >>> >ar Blanket programs are wrong, cause too many inconsistencies, and are
> >>> >ar antiquated ways of thinking. There is no unified theory for
> >>> > assisting
> >>> > any
> >>> >ar job seeker. Everyone needs help in different areas, from soft skills
> >>> >ar training to resume writing. Some people only need a piece of
> >>> > assistive
> >>> >ar technology and they can hit the ground running. As blind people, we
> >>> > just
> >>> >ar can't see, but without an understanding of disability culture we are
> >>> > all
> >>> >ar to
> >>> >ar often treated as if we can't think.
> >>> >ar
> >>> >ar I hope this did not sound to preachy.
> >>> >ar
> >>> >ar Cheers,
> >>> >ar Arlie Ray
> >>> >ar _______________________________________________
> >>> >ar Ohio-talk mailing list
> >>> >ar Ohio-talk at nfbnet.org
> >>> >ar http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/ohio-talk_nfbnet.org
> >>> >ar To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >>> > for
> >>> >ar Ohio-talk:
> >>> >ar
> >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/ohio-talk_nfbnet.org/n8tnv%40att.net
> >>> >
> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > Ohio-talk mailing list
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> >>> > Ohio-talk:
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> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Kaiti Shelton
> >>> University of Dayton 2016.
> >>> Music Therapy, Psychology, Philosophy
> >>> President, Ohio Association of Blind Students
> >>> Sigma Alpha Iota-Delta Sigma
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Ohio-talk mailing list
> >>> Ohio-talk at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/ohio-talk_nfbnet.org
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> >>> Ohio-talk:
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> >ar
> >ar _______________________________________________
> >ar Ohio-talk mailing list
> >ar Ohio-talk at nfbnet.org
> >ar http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/ohio-talk_nfbnet.org
> >ar To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >ar Ohio-talk:
> >ar http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/ohio-talk_nfbnet.org/marianne%40denningweb.com
> >ar
> >
> >
> > --
> > Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
> > Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
> > (513) 607-6053
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ohio-talk mailing list
> > Ohio-talk at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/ohio-talk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > Ohio-talk:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/ohio-talk_nfbnet.org/kaiti.shelton%40gmail.com
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kaiti Shelton
> University of Dayton 2016.
> Music Therapy, Psychology, Philosophy
> President, Ohio Association of Blind Students
> Sigma Alpha Iota-Delta Sigma
> 
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