[Ohio-talk] Work Tolorence

Thu May 22 02:21:20 UTC 2014

Hi Colleen and all,

I never really understood that notion of how a person can decide
they're not going to hang out with someone with a different amount of
vision from them personally.  I think I too have a good set of blind
friends and acquaintances, but I have about the same amount of friends
and acquaintances who are sighted thanks to my involvement in various
organizations at school.

I think when I was younger, around the time I was still rejecting
braille and the cane, etc, blindness was a stigma.  It probably didn't
help that my well-meaning parents used the threat of sending me to the
state school for the blind to get me to act more independently.  Their
reverse psychology worked, and I know now that they were told when I
was much younger that I needed to stay in public schools if I were
going to be academically challenged, and that I could learn the
independent living skills at home.  I am glad that they followed the
advice they had been given.  I would have never been able to take
advantage of honors and AP courses if I were not in a public school,
and I don't think I would have developed socially either.  OSSB did
have a marching band by the time I was marching in high school, but I
didn't know about it when I first started.  I was also on the Academic
Quiz Team for two years, and participated in a two-year teacher prep
program when I was considering music education as a career.  I had so
many opportunities that I wouldn't have otherwise had, and those
allowed me to flourish with bandmates, quiz team members, and with
classmates in general.

I actually have a pretty funny story about how I came to know of the
OSSB marching band.  I still wasn't very connected to blind people
outside of my small circle of friends, and only really knew one person
who attended OSSB.  I was sitting in Wind Symphony before class, and
my director comes in and says to the entire class, "I got this email
last night about the Ohio State School for the Blind.  They have a
marching band that is going to the Rose Parade."  Most people in Wind
Symphony were also in marching band, so people were interested.  Then
he said, "I thought they wanted Kaiti to go march with them, but they
wanted money."  I don't know whether he donated anything from our band
program or not, or why he would have thought OSSB would follow his
methods of pulling students from the middle schools into the ranks of
the high school band to increase numbers, but it was a total surprise
to me that there was an entire band of students who might be using the
same techniques I had found through trial and error.  It was kind of
cool because I felt like I had found my own way to participate with my
sighted peers, yet I also wasn't the only blind person to be doing it.

On 5/21/14, Colleen Roth via Ohio-talk <ohio-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hi Kaiti,
> When I was growing up post of the people in my life were sighted.
> When I went to OSSB for sixth grade it was very traumatic for me.
> I was used to being around sfghted people and some of the blind people I
> encountered had some strange behaviors.
> I also think I didn't want to befriend my classmates and those in the dorm
> because I didn't want to be there.
> I went home every weekend and I hated being there. Looking back I am glad I
> had the experience but I didn't even find some of the blind teachers very
> inspiring.
> I do not want to offend anyone but I just didn't know how to cope.
> When I attended a summer program in 1969 it was better because I had spent
> some time with blind adults by that time.
> I cannot tell you if I have more blind or sighted friends. I have been asked
> this many times.
> I think that the important thing is that I do not decide if I am going to be
> friends with someone based on their Visual Acuity.
> I like to think that I have several people who are both blind and sighted
> who are part of my family in the Federation.
> For me my lack of travel skills was a distinct drawback for quite a while.
> Dr. Jernigan's speech on the Nature of Independence helped me to accept
> myself in this area whether others do or not.
> At this point it doesn't matter because of other physical problems.
> I know that I can call many of you at any time if I need to do that and this
> is a blessing.
> On the other hand, I know that many of you know that you could call me at
> any time.
> I will even include those who hate cats. Please do not tell me how they
> should expire however.
> Let's promote Braille and anything we can use to write it.
> Colleen Roth
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kaiti Shelton via Ohio-talk <ohio-talk at nfbnet.org>
> To: NFB of Ohio Announcement and Discussion List <ohio-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 01:21:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ohio-talk] Work Tolorence
>
>>
>>
>> Hi Colleen, Marianne, and all,
>>
>> I totally agree on the role model front.  I had only one really strong
>> role model for most of my childhood, and while she is a fabulous role
>> model to have and someone who is still a great mentor figure to me
>> now, I wish I had been exposed to more blind adults when I was 6, 7,
>> 10 years old.  I still have some residual vision that I can use, and
>> it was a heck of a lot better 15 years ago than what it is now.  I
>> think that, because when I was really young I didn't hang around with
>> many blind kids and had mostly sighted friends from Girl Scouts, dance
>> class, etc, that I really didn't think I was different in any way from
>> my classmates.  I don't remember how I perceived myself as a six year
>> old, but I knew the fact that I took eye drops and had an aid in class
>> didn't phase me so much as mobility lessons and braille time in school
>> did.  I could have very well thought that the way I saw things was the
>> same way everyone else saw things.  I think that that was what made
>> switching from large print to braille as a first grade student really
>> difficult for me.  My braille literacy story is neither here nor there
>> for this particular thread, but I really did think that braille was
>> the end all thing that would make me different from my classmates, and
>> the thing that would keep me from continuing to fit in.  I really
>> didn't start regularly talking to or hanging out with other blind kids
>> my age till I was about thirteen or fourteen, and having peers who
>> were blind was really what I think helped me to gain some perspective
>> about myself.  I also started meeting more blind adults at around that
>> same time through the mentoring program, so that contributed to my
>> understanding too.
>>
>> I actually have met all three kinds of people Marianne
>> described---those who don't want to associate with other blind people,
>> those who do it to an extreme and either spend a lot of time on a
>> computer chatting with them or who almost exclusively talk to blind
>> people, and those who are in the middle and are well-adjusted.  I'm
>> happy to say that the first two types of people are minorities, but
>> they are out there.  I have a hunch that these communication styles
>> are linked to how well adjusted a person is, and how accepting of
>> their blindness and independence they really are, but I don't exactly
>> have a clear argument to back it up.
>>
>> On 5/20/14, Marianne Denning via Ohio-talk <ohio-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> > There was a time when blind people all hung together, then a time when
>> > we were almost discouraged from associating with other blind people
>> > and now I think we are somewhere between the two extremes and that is
>> > good.  I also think that technology makes it easier for blind people
>> > all around the world to communicate with each other and that is a good
>> > thing. I agree, that adult roll models are important for blind
>> > children and their parents.  I wish I had that opportunity growing up.
>> >
>> > On 5/20/14, Colleen Roth via Ohio-talk <ohio-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >ar Hi Kaiti,
>> >ar For those of us who were raised mostly around sighted people we do
>> > not
>> >ar have
>> >ar as much experience with the blind culture.
>> >ar I only attended first grade and sixth grade with blind students. In
>> > high
>> >ar school there were only 2 blind students at St. Ursula Academy.
>> >ar My contacts with blind role models were very limited.
>> >ar Therefore I didn't learn all of the cultural nuances and phrases. I
>> > was
>> >ar strongly encouraged to behave in ways which would make more more
>> >ar acceptable
>> >ar to sighted people.
>> >ar I think it is important for blind children to have good adult role
>> > models
>> >ar so
>> >ar that they know
>> >ar what blind adults can do.
>> >ar Sometimes people around blind children or blind adults who have had
>> >ar little
>> >ar or no experience with blindness think we do so well when in fact we
>> > are
>> >ar ordinary or even less than ordinary in the things we do.
>> >ar Colleen Roth
>> >ar
>> >ar
>> >ar
>> >ar
>> >ar ----- Original Message -----
>> >ar From: Kaiti Shelton via Ohio-talk <ohio-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> >ar To: NFB of Ohio Announcement and Discussion List
>> > <ohio-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> >ar Date: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 05:07:08 AM
>> >ar Subject: Re: [Ohio-talk] Work Tolorence
>> >ar
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi all,
>> >>>
>> >>> I'm a bit late on the conversation, but the cultural stuff is kind of
>> >>> interesting to me.  While I totally agree that BSVI needs some
>> >>> serious
>> >>> changing, I have limited experience with them because I am still
>> >>> working towards my degree.  So, I will speak about the culture stuff.
>> >>>
>> >>> I think that although the blind do not have such an organized culture
>> >>> as the deaf, that there are certain things we do when we're in groups
>> >>> that we wouldn't normally do with sighted peers.  For example, I
>> >>> usually dumb down my explanations of braille, notetakers, etc for
>> >>> sighted people who are curious enough to ask about them.  When I'm
>> >>> with a group of blind people about my age, we freely talk about the
>> >>> stuff we use on a daily basis.  A really popular thing for us to do
>> >>> when we were about 16 or so was to write BrailleNote documents which
>> >>> made weird sounds.  One of our friends was so good at it that he
>> >>> could
>> >>> make Keynote Gold sound like it had a southern accent, and he also
>> >>> could make it sound like it was beat boxing.  It sounds incredibly
>> >>> childish, but we thought it was the funniest thing for a while.  It
>> >>> was something unique to our group, that sighted kids our age just
>> >>> would not have understood.
>> >>>
>> >>> I have also heard some very interesting terminology in various social
>> >>> circles such as the NABS list.  I have heard the term "blink" before
>> >>> too, and though personally I think it is a bit weird, I know people
>> >>> who use that term.  I also know people who describe canes as "sticks"
>> >>> and that is a different matter because it doesn't accurately teach
>> >>> sighted people those "stick" sayers come into contact with.  One
>> >>> person on NABS has consistently referred to sighted people in kind of
>> >>> a condescending way, calling them "Old sighty."  I know there are
>> >>> groups out there who really don't like to be around sighted people
>> >>> for
>> >>> perceived injustices towards them, and that's a cultural thing.  Not
>> >>> to mention that I've seen the blindisms of rocking actually come into
>> >>> play, not because the blind people wanted them to but just because
>> >>> it's weird for a sighted person to see, so they're less likely to
>> >>> socialize with someone who can't sit still and have a conversation.
>> >>>
>> >>> I guess it really depends on how you look at it.  Definitely, we are
>> >>> not as culturized as the deaf, but I do think that groups of blind
>> >>> people have quirks which create a sort of culture surrounding their
>> >>> blindness.  And, Colleen, I agree about the ASL.  I took a
>> >>> sign-singing choir class that used pigeon for both semesters last
>> >>> year, and it was much less efficient than ASL.  Pigeon is basically
>> >>> only the ASL symbol signs with no finger spelling at all, but the
>> >>> main
>> >>> drawback to it is that the translations are very weird.  I know
>> >>> enough
>> >>> that a deaf person could have a simple conversation with me using it,
>> >>> but they would probably have to think about what I was saying to make
>> >>> sense of it.  It would be like if a person speaking to you only knew
>> >>> certain words, and didn't use conjunctions at all, or could not add
>> >>> endings like ING or ER to the endings of words.  My favorite
>> >>> translation happened when we were signing My Favorite Things from The
>> >>> Sound of Music for our Christmas concert.  The line that says,
>> >>> "Doorbells and slaybells and schnitzel with noodles," was translated
>> >>> to Doorbell ring, Christmas spaghetti.  This was due largely in part
>> >>> to the lack of a sign for schnitzel, but Christmas spaghetti became a
>> >>> catch phrase in the class whenever we had a translation which was
>> >>> particularly weird.
>> >>>
>> >>> On 5/19/14, COLLEEN ROTH via Ohio-talk <ohio-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >>> >  Hello,
>> >>> > Well I wouldn't say that blind people have a disability culture.
>> >>> > I think deaf people have a deaf culture because of the fact that
>> >>> > they
>> >>> > have
>> >>> > had to find different ways of communicating. I do think that some
>> >>> > people
>> >>> > who
>> >>> > are deaf may feel isolated due to the challenges they have in
>> >>> > communicating
>> >>> > with others. There are also some people who want to use a system to
>> >>> > communicate which other deaf people might not agree with. I know
>> >>> > that
>> >>> > there
>> >>> > are some deaf people who want to spell each word when they
>> >>> > communicate
>> >>> > and
>> >>> > some want to use ASL while others prefer total communication. I
>> >>> > thin
>> >>> > that
>> >>> > the pendulum is swinging toward the middle now and ASL is more
>> >>> > accepted
>> >>> > than
>> >>> > it was in the mid sixties to the mid seventies for example.
>> >>> > I can't remember what the communication system is called which has
>> >>> > people
>> >>> > communicating with each other by spelling each word.
>> >>> > I for one am glad that ASL is more accepted now for ease of
>> >>> > communication.
>> >>> > We could probably compare this to Braille.
>> >>> > Deaf people in different parts of the country have their own little
>> >>> > short-hand which is understood by those they spend time with.
>> >>> > I think some blind people may have had some of that kind of lingo
>> >>> > and
>> >>> > cutesy
>> >>> > sayings particularly at schools for the blind.
>> >>> > I was aghast the first time I heard someone refer to themselves as
>> >>> > a
>> >>> > Blink.
>> >>> > I had no clue what they were talking about and to this day I never
>> >>> > use
>> >>> > that
>> >>> > term.
>> >>> > Colleen Roth
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> > From: Arlie Ray via Ohio-talk <ohio-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> >>> > To: ohio-talk at nfbnet.org
>> >>> > Date: Sunday, May 18, 2014 8:51 am
>> >>> > Subject: [Ohio-talk] Work Tolorence
>> >>> >
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> >ar Hi List Viewers,
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> >ar Your concerns about this work tolorence matter are completely
>> >>> > valid.
>> >>> >ar Consequently, I am trying to become a job developer because I
>> >>> > think
>> >>> >ar counselors and employment specialists are missing one key
>> >>> > resource;
>> >>> > they
>> >>> >ar do
>> >>> >ar not understand disability culture. Not having this understanding
>> >>> > means
>> >>> >ar that
>> >>> >ar all jobseekers with disabilities get treated the same. Hence the
>> >>> > need
>> >>> > for
>> >>> >ar a
>> >>> >ar "work tolorence" program. A blanket program for counselors who
>> >>> > only
>> >>> >ar understand disability from a "how fast can you get the job done"
>> >>> > point
>> >>> > of
>> >>> >ar view.
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> >ar Blanket programs are wrong, cause too many inconsistencies, and
>> >>> > are
>> >>> >ar antiquated ways of thinking. There is no unified theory for
>> >>> > assisting
>> >>> > any
>> >>> >ar job seeker. Everyone needs help in different areas, from soft
>> >>> > skills
>> >>> >ar training to resume writing. Some people only need a piece of
>> >>> > assistive
>> >>> >ar technology and they can hit the ground running. As blind people,
>> >>> > we
>> >>> > just
>> >>> >ar can't see, but without an understanding of disability culture we
>> >>> > are
>> >>> > all
>> >>> >ar to
>> >>> >ar often treated as if we can't think.
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> >ar I hope this did not sound to preachy.
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> >ar Cheers,
>> >>> >ar Arlie Ray
>> >>> >ar _______________________________________________
>> >>> >ar Ohio-talk mailing list
>> >>> >ar Ohio-talk at nfbnet.org
>> >>> >ar http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/ohio-talk_nfbnet.org
>> >>> >ar To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >>> > for
>> >>> >ar Ohio-talk:
>> >>> >ar
>> >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/ohio-talk_nfbnet.org/n8tnv%40att.net
>> >>> >
>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > Ohio-talk mailing list
>> >>> > Ohio-talk at nfbnet.org
>> >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/ohio-talk_nfbnet.org
>> >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >>> > for
>> >>> > Ohio-talk:
>> >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/ohio-talk_nfbnet.org/kaiti.shelton%40gmail.com
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Kaiti Shelton
>> >>> University of Dayton 2016.
>> >>> Music Therapy, Psychology, Philosophy
>> >>> President, Ohio Association of Blind Students
>> >>> Sigma Alpha Iota-Delta Sigma
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Ohio-talk mailing list
>> >>> Ohio-talk at nfbnet.org
>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/ohio-talk_nfbnet.org
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>> >>> Ohio-talk:
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>> >ar
>> >ar _______________________________________________
>> >ar Ohio-talk mailing list
>> >ar Ohio-talk at nfbnet.org
>> >ar http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/ohio-talk_nfbnet.org
>> >ar To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >ar Ohio-talk:
>> >ar
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/ohio-talk_nfbnet.org/marianne%40denningweb.com
>> >ar
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
>> > Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
>> > (513) 607-6053
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Ohio-talk mailing list
>> > Ohio-talk at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/ohio-talk_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > Ohio-talk:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/ohio-talk_nfbnet.org/kaiti.shelton%40gmail.com
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti Shelton
>> University of Dayton 2016.
>> Music Therapy, Psychology, Philosophy
>> President, Ohio Association of Blind Students
>> Sigma Alpha Iota-Delta Sigma
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ohio-talk mailing list
>> Ohio-talk at nfbnet.org
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>
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-- 
Kaiti Shelton
University of Dayton 2016.
Music Therapy, Psychology, Philosophy
President, Ohio Association of Blind Students
Sigma Alpha Iota-Delta Sigma