[Ohio-talk] voc rehab and unreasonable acommodations

Fri Oct 9 14:46:02 UTC 2015

Cheryl, I totally agree with you.  I would like to talk about the problems
adults have with voc rehab.  I think the NFB can help adults learn to
advocate.  Learning about our rights as consumers and how to advocate can
help all of us work with BSVI and have a more positive outcome.

On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Cheryl Fischer via Ohio-talk <
ohio-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Marianne,
>
> I think that formal training in how to advocate for oneself can put the
> idea in one's head that one has the right to do so, but like most things in
> life, watching others do it and having the opportunity to do it yourself in
> real life is most beneficial. I wish the schools would be more comfortable
> connecting students with the NFB and other disability organizations where
> young people could observe and take part in advocacy efforts and be
> supported and advised as they try to advocate for themselves.
>
> Cheryl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ohio-talk [mailto:ohio-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Marianne Denning via Ohio-talk
> Sent: Friday, October 09, 2015 8:08 AM
> To: NFB of Ohio Announcement and Discussion List
> Cc: Marianne Denning
> Subject: [Ohio-talk] voc rehab and unreasonable acommodations
>
> Annette, you bring up some good points so I have changed the subject to
> reflect your concerns.
>
> I think training for people who are receiving rehab services would be
> terrific.  I am advocating for families with children in school who are
> visually impaired.  Maybe we need something similar so blind adults can
> learn to successfully advocate for ourselves.  I have tried to get schools
> interested in teaching advocacy to high school students with disabilities
> but there is no interest so many people continue into adulthood without
> this critical skill.  If we learn to advocate than we can have more control
> in determining how we interact with voc rehab.
>
> I hope othrs will comment.
>
>
>
> On 10/7/15, Annette Lutz via Ohio-talk <ohio-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I have been reading this thread with quite a bit of interest, because,
> > like the rest of you, I have had the "wheelchair" argument in
> > airports.  Deborah, your article was great, and showed our point of
> > view exactly.  Your expression of the frustration was right on.  I
> > have to say that I feel bad for the workers who are the ones who are
> > stuck between our frustration and the unreasonable dictates of their
> > employers, feeling that they have to make us use the wheelchair
> > against our wishes or feel the fear of loosing their jobs.  The answer
> is definitely education at the higher levels.
> >
> > However, I wanted to take this discussion another direction.  I have
> > been particuliarly interested in the legal discussion concerning the
> > ADA and our right to decide what accomodations are appropriate for us as
> blind people.
> > Does this right also extend to the area of vocational rehabilitation.
> > In a sense, the entire concept of VR is an accommodation for those of
> > us with disabilities to find and keep employment.  Their purpose is to
> > assist disabled people in the areas of training and accessability to
> > make us employable on the same level as non-disabled people.  However,
> > just like in the airport, we as those disabled people are subjected to
> > many inappropriate "accomodations."  Just like the unrequired
> > wheelchair, we are accommodated to such items as psychological
> > evaluations and basic work skills assessments, solely due to our
> > blindness.  I have said it before, it is just as ridiculous as a
> > wheelchair for some who is blind who is asking for assistance, as it
> > is for a psychological evaluation for someone with the same blindness.
> > I have personally known blind people with advanced college degrees put
> > through the indignity of having to have skills assessments where they
> were forced to sort nuts and bolts, or count items into groups of 100.
> > This is just as ridiculous as the forced wheelchair for a blind
> > person, and is even more dangerous because instead of only being a
> > short time of embarrassment and frustration, it is a long-term process
> > that someone is forced into just to get a job.  On top of this, the
> > idea of using the justification of how much case services dollars is
> > used as the excuse for such ridiculous assessments, when these
> > assessments are using said dollars to be performed in the first place.
> >
> > I guess what I am getting at is the "wheelchair" problem is more
> > pervasive in our society than just at the airports.  Even though I
> > completely applaud any efforts to curb this, and allow our travels to
> > be more pleasant, I believe that the larger battle is still in front
> > of us.  How do we use this law to bring true accomodations that are
> appropriate to the VR world?
> >
> > Just a question to ponder.
> >
> > Annette
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ohio-talk [mailto:ohio-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> > Deborah Kendrick via Ohio-talk
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2015 8:52 AM
> > To: 'NFB of Ohio Announcement and Discussion List'
> > Cc: Deborah Kendrick
> > Subject: Re: [Ohio-talk] Deborah Kendrick Column Please read
> >
> > Marianne,
> > This is so funny that I just might have to quote your idea in a future
> > column!  Make everybody take a white cane, oh yeah!  Brilliant!
> > Actually, I have noticed a distinct difference between airlines and
> > have done a little informal digging, which is why the reference in the
> > column to some getting it right and others not.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ohio-talk [mailto:ohio-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> > barbara.pierce9366--- via Ohio-talk
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2015 8:18 AM
> > To: NFB of Ohio Announcement and Discussion List
> > Cc: barbara.pierce9366 at gmail.com
> > Subject: Re: [Ohio-talk] Deborah Kendrick Column Please read
> >
> > Maybe we should demand oxygen and a gurney as well. We might as well
> > make as big a splash as possible.
> > Barbara
> > Barbara Pierce
> > President Emerita
> > National Federation of the Blind of Ohio Barbara.pierce9366 at gmail.com
> > 440-774-8077
> > The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the
> > characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise the
> > expectations of blind people, because low expectations create
> > obstacles between blind people and our dreams. You can live the life
> > you want; blindness is not what holds you back.
> >
> >> On Oct 6, 2015, at 4:25 PM, Marianne Denning via Ohio-talk
> >> <ohio-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> I have done just a little research and it seems like rules are
> >> different from airline to airline and maybe even from air port to air
> >> port.  That makes it impossible for us to know what to expect as we
> >> travel. When should we stand up and refuse the wheelchair and when
> >> should we just let it go? I think the next time I will not only
> >> demand a wheelchair but also a communication device because I
> >> obviously can't hear and maybe an interpreter because I can't speak
> >> English either.  I think all people in wheelchairs should have to use a
> white cane too.
> >>
> >> On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 4:16 PM, Debra Baker via Ohio-talk <
> >> ohio-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I wouldn't be surprised at all if that were their thinking.  Injury
> >>> or not, as a result of the escort's help.  They're seeming to run
> >>> scared of being fired; thus, liability.
> >>>
> >>> Debbie Baker
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Ohio-talk [mailto:ohio-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> >>> Marianne Denning via Ohio-talk
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2015 3:52 PM
> >>> To: NFB of Ohio Announcement and Discussion List
> >>> Cc: Marianne Denning
> >>> Subject: Re: [Ohio-talk] Deborah Kendrick Column Please read
> >>>
> >>> I wonder if they insist that we ride in a wheelchair because of
> >>> liability if their escort injures us in any way?  It is crazy but
> >>> just a thought.
> >>>
> >>> On 10/6/15, Deborah Kendrick via Ohio-talk <ohio-talk at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
> >>>> Cheryl,
> >>>> If you could locate that block of text, I would be inclined to send
> >>>> it to the offending airline along with my column.
> >>>> I didn't name them because I was already over allotted length and
> >>>> to name the bad guy would have led to naming the goodguys, too, and
> >>>> there just wasn't room.  But it has occurred to me that I should
> >>>> figure out how to get this info to the folks who might do something
> >>>> about it.
> >>>> And Marianne, do please tell us the Philadelphia story!  Reading
> >>>> your last comment has me on the edge of my proverbial seat!
> >>>>
> >>>> Deborah
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Ohio-talk [mailto:ohio-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> >>>> Cheryl Fischer via Ohio-talk
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2015 3:09 PM
> >>>> To: 'NFB of Ohio Announcement and Discussion List'
> >>>> Cc: Cheryl Fischer
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Ohio-talk] Deborah Kendrick Column Please read
> >>>>
> >>>> What about the line(s) in the ADA that say that a person with a
> >>>> disability should have say in what accommodation they receive, if
> >>>> any, and that no accommodation that the person with the disability
> >>>> says is inappropriate for them may be forced upon them?  I wonder
> >>>> if a page or so of the ADA with this part highlighted might help,
> >>>> if not at the moment we are treated wrongly, then afterward if we
> >>>> make a public issue of the incident and/or the ongoing problem.
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Ohio-talk [mailto:ohio-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> >>>> Marianne Denning via Ohio-talk
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2015 12:14 PM
> >>>> To: NFB of Ohio Announcement and Discussion List
> >>>> Cc: Marianne Denning
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Ohio-talk] Deborah Kendrick Column Please read
> >>>>
> >>>> You are so right about that Barbara.  I don't think the
> >>>> Philadelphia airport will ever let me back in again because of the
> >>>> reputation I earned on my last trip through there.  (smile)
> >>>>
> >>>> On 10/6/15, barbara.pierce9366--- via Ohio-talk
> >>>> <ohio-talk at nfbnet.org>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> This is a home run. I love the way you capture the exhaustion and
> >>>>> desperation. These things never seem to happen when we are fresh
> >>>>> and patient.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Barbara
> >>>>> Barbara Pierce
> >>>>> President Emerita
> >>>>> National Federation of the Blind of Ohio
> >>>>> Barbara.pierce9366 at gmail.com
> >>>>> 440-774-8077
> >>>>> The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not
> >>>>> the characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we
> >>>>> raise the expectations of blind people, because low expectations
> >>>>> create obstacles between blind people and our dreams. You can live
> >>>>> the life you zwant; blindness is not what holds you back.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Oct 5, 2015, at 10:26 PM, Marianne Denning via Ohio-talk
> >>>>>> <ohio-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This is excellent and so true.  Next step, what can we do about
> this?
> >>>>>> I have had the same thing happen on many occasions.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 10/5/15, Eric Duffy via Ohio-talk <ohio-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>> This is a good read. The problem Deborah describes continues to
> >>>>>>> be a problem for many of us. Spread the word. Let people know
> >>>>>>> that Deborah’s experience
> >>>>>>> is not an    isolated incident. .
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Eric
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Deborah Kendrick commentary: Airports can mean humiliation for
> >>>>>>> some travelers. A recent midnight flight from San Francisco to
> >>>>>>> Cincinnati held the elements all blind travelers dread most: The
> >>>>>>> moment when one disability is mistaken for another, and
> >>>>>>> deep-rooted misconceptions engender humiliation. When the last
> >>>>>>> plane landed, I'd been traveling for 13 hours.
> >>>>>>> It
> >>>>>>> was 11:00 a.m., and I was exhausted. Here is the scenario. My
> >>>>>>> ride home is in the cell phone lot. I ask the gate agent if
> >>>>>>> someone can walk with me.
> >>>>>>> This is a simple enough request and one I have made hundreds of
> >>>>>>> times in dozens of airports. I am a blind person carrying a long
> >>>>>>> white cane. My request is for someone to walk with me who knows
> >>>>>>> the way. The gate agent is smart, courteous, eager to assist.
> >>>>>>> She makes the call. ... And another.
> >>>>>>> ...
> >>>>>>> And another. When five minutes has gone by, I am impatient. At
> >>>>>>> ten, I am agitated. At twenty, with a red-eye flight behind me
> >>>>>>> and the knowledge that my ride home is just a few minutes' walk
> >>>>>>> away, I am close to meltdown. I hear the agent say into the
> >>>>>>> phone, "No, she doesn't need a wheelchair.
> >>>>>>> Just
> >>>>>>> needs someone to walk with her. At 25 minutes, the somewhat
> >>>>>>> embarrassed gate agent comes over where I am leaning on the
> >>>>>>> wall, trying not to cry, wishing I weren't so tired and could
> >>>>>>> just start walking, exploring, figuring it out.
> >>>>>>> "The problem," she informs me, "is that they won't come unless
> >>>>>>> you will sit in the wheelchair. She is apologetic, sees the
> >>>>>>> folly of this supposed "rule". But I am ready to disassemble
> >>>>>>> with fatigue and humiliation and thus I acquiesce. The young
> >>>>>>> woman who comes with the wheelchair tells me that if I don't sit
> >>>>>>> in it, she will be
> >>> fired.
> >>>>>>> She will either leave me here or I will ride. I sit down. For
> >>>>>>> the half-mile distance from gate to exit, I pray no one sees me
> >>>>>>> who knows me. Don't get me wrong. There is no shame in using a
> >>>>>>> wheelchair. For my friends who use them with purpose, the
> >>>>>>> wheelchair is a tool of freedom and flight and euphoria. No, for
> >>>>>>> me, the shame was rooted in the fear that others would think me
> >>>>>>> a shirker, a faker, a jerk able to walk who commandeered some
> >>>>>>> deserving passenger's wheelchair. The subtext here, the message
> >>>>>>> conveyed, is
> >>>>>>> this: Because I happen to be blind, I am not worthy of the same
> >>>>>>> respect as any other paying passenger. If I need assistance, I
> >>>>>>> will shut up, sit down, be addressed like a child (or piece of
> >>>>>>> furniture), and be grateful. This, regrettably, is not an
> >>>>>>> isolated incident. I have scores of stories from others - blind
> >>>>>>> lawyers, athletes, and CEO's -- recounting similar nightmares.
> >>>>>>> Kaiti Shelton, a University of Dayton music therapy major,
> >>>>>>> returned from a college abroad trip in June. The emotional high
> >>>>>>> sparked by success in another country, the joy of having been
> >>>>>>> treated as an equal by the residents there and her fellow
> >>>>>>> college students, plummeted quickly in an American airport. She,
> >>>>>>> too, was given the ultimatum "no wheelchair, no assistance. Eric
> >>>>>>> Duffy of Columbus, president of the National Federation of the
> >>>>>>> Blind of Ohio, says the wheelchair argument has happened more
> >>>>>>> times than he can count. "I can be coming back from a powerfully
> >>>>>>> positive experience, meeting with members of Congress on Capitol
> >>>>>>> Hill or participating in negotiations with other leaders, and
> >>>>>>> then the [emotional] balance shifts at the airport. The
> >>>>>>> disrespect leaves me feeling insulted and angry. The only
> >>>>>>> consistency in flying, if you happen to be blind,
> >>> is inconsistency.
> >>>>>>> Sometimes, the curb to curb process is rich with encounters of
> >>>>>>> mutual respect, jumpstarting your business trip or vacation with
> >>>>>>> a general love of humankind. Another time, the misconceptions
> >>>>>>> held by airport workers result in degradation. You are grabbed,
> >>>>>>> pulled, talked about in the third person, and given
> >>>>>>> inappropriate "assistance". One TSA worker might allow you to
> >>>>>>> move through the line without any particular notice, while
> >>>>>>> another wants to hold your hands and talk to you in the
> >>>>>>> sing-song tones reserved for preschoolers. One flight attendant
> >>>>>>> might order you into the bulkhead row while another just as
> quickly orders you out of it.
> >>>>>>> One day you might ask for someone to walk to the gate with you
> >>>>>>> and the employee who arrives is so engaging that you have
> >>>>>>> exchanged life stories by the time you arrive. And another day,
> >>>>>>> the request results in a stripping of dignity.
> >>>>>>> Disability awareness varies widely from one airline/airport to
> >>> another.
> >>>>>>> Not
> >>>>>>> surprisingly, that difference seems to be in direct correlation
> >>>>>>> to the source of training for employees. If you want to know how
> >>>>>>> best to treat people with disabilities, ask them. And then
> >>>>>>> listen to what they say.
> >>>>>>> Deborah Kendrick is a Cincinnati writer and advocate for people
> >>>>>>> with disabilities. .
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Ohio-talk mailing list
> >>>>>>> Ohio-talk at nfbnet.org
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> >>>>>>> info for
> >>>>>>> Ohio-talk:
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> >>>>>>> 4
> >>>>>>> 0d
> >>>>>>> e
> >>>>>>> nningweb.com
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
> >>>>>> Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
> >>>>>> (513) 607-6053
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Ohio-talk mailing list
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> >>>>>> Ohio-talk:
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> >>>>>> e
> >>>>>> rc
> >>>>>> e
> >>>>>> 9366%40gmail.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>> en
> >>>>> n
> >>>>> ingweb.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
> >>>> Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
> >>>> (513) 607-6053
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>
> >>>>
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> >>>>
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> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
> >>> Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
> >>> (513) 607-6053
> >>>
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> >>>
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
> >> Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
> >> (513) 607-6053
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Ohio-talk mailing list
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> >> 366%40gmail.com
> >
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>
> --
> Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
> Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
> (513) 607-6053
>
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-- 
Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
(513) 607-6053