[Pibe-division] [spam] Re: Comment

Tue Jun 8 15:56:59 UTC 2010

Dear Sheila,
I would just like to take this opportunity to wish you a happy and
healthy retirement.  I know this is a bit off topic.  You and Denise
have really stirred it up now.
I am aware of how terribly dedicated you have been to your students for
the past 38 years and I want to make sure that you know that although we
all come into this profession from different directions the bottom line
is that we do the best we can.  You saw the need and you answered the
call.  

Congratulations on your retirement.

Sincerely,
Mary Willows, TVI 

-----Original Message-----
From: pibe-division-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:pibe-division-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dr. Denise M.
Robinson
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 5:04 PM
To: Professionals in Blindness Education Division List
Subject: [spam] Re: [Pibe-division] Comment

Sheila

I am not sure you would use these arguments if you had a blind child who
was at the bottom of the class, struggling and unable to meet his
potential due to the poor instructional skills of his TVI

       Denise 

Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D. 
Coordinator for Blind/VI students at ESD105
Teacher of the Blind & Visually Impaired
509-969-3622

--- On Mon, 6/7/10, Sheila Amato <brltrans at verizon.net> wrote:

	From: Sheila Amato <brltrans at verizon.net>
	Subject: Re: [Pibe-division] Comment
	To: "Professionals in Blindness Education Division List"
<pibe-division at nfbnet.org>
	Date: Monday, June 7, 2010, 10:42 PM

	Hi, Denise - ay, we can be bad in so many ways... 

	We can have poor communication skills and not accurately convey
the scope of our - or our students' needs.
	We can have poor skills in transcribing braille
	We can have poor skills in teaching braille... which (as we all
know) is not necessarily related to transcribing braille
	We can have poor social skills
	We can have poor mobility skills

	Of course you realize I'm speaking tongue in cheek. What I am
trying to convey is that just as each of our students is an
individual... with unique talents and areas in need of further
development, so are teachers.

	I consider myself a rather proficient braille transcriber, but I
will also admit that I have a colleague who is a much better teacher
(introducing braille skills to little ones) than I am. However, she
would panic if she had to transcribe geometry, while I sink my teeth in
and grin.

	This is one unique thing about OUR field that regular educators
- or even special educators - don't have to deal with. We teach kids:
	from birth to 21 - or older
	those who are blind (adventitiously or congenitally)
	those who have varying degrees of low vision (adventitiously or
congenitally)
	those with vision loss and multiple disabilities
	in any combination of the above, and in multiple settings on a
daily basis.

	I don't know any one individual who can do it ALL to a high
level of proficiency. I do know many who are in there every day doing
the best they can with limited resources and lack of support from the
educational system as well as the parents and doctors. 

	We tend to hear about the problem teachers. They make the daily
news and people are outraged. We do ourselves a disservice as a field
for not sharing news publicly about the teachers who are considered to
be excellent - by virtue of their student's outstanding achievements.
Even without data (but with common sense, perhaps) I'm willing to bet
the good apples in our field  highly outnumber the bad ones. 

	The REAL problem is... what are we all going to do to help the
teachers with less-than-proficient skills reach for the stars and gain
the proficiency they need to have, what are we going to do to "fix" a
system of education that is broken, and how can we assure that students
who graduate from teacher training programs do so with a set of skills
and knowledge that meet national criteria.

	Sheila

	From: Dr. Denise M. Robinson
<http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dmehlenbacher@yahoo.com>  
	Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 10:15 AM
	To: Professionals in Blindness Education Division List
<http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pibe-division@nfbnet.org>

	Subject: Re: [Pibe-division] Comment

The REALLY bad thing about the content of these comments is we have the
teachers with poor skills telling the administration all the incorrect
information--which they believe, hence the lack of instruction and poor
instruction continues.

       Denise 

Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D. 
Coordinator for Blind/VI students at ESD105
Teacher of the Blind & Visually Impaired
509-969-3622

--- On Mon, 6/7/10, Kirsten Peterson <kpeterson at perandoe.org> wrote:

	From: Kirsten Peterson <kpeterson at perandoe.org>
	Subject: Re: [Pibe-division] Comment
	To: "Professionals in Blindness Education Division List"
<pibe-division at nfbnet.org>
	Date: Monday, June 7, 2010, 5:13 AM

	I couldn't agree with you more Denise! Thanks for standing up
and making the point that clearly needs to be made over and over again.
It amazes me how many school districts and teachers..special ed teachers
included..think of Braille instruction as an extra to occur when time
allows, rather than as an absolute necessity! 
	Kirsten 

	On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 7:43 PM, Allison Hilliker (NFBA)
<nfbarizona at gmail.com
<http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nfbarizona@gmail.com> >
wrote:

		Well said, Denise!  I'm glad we have teachers out there
like you who are spreading such Braille-positive messages.

		It continuously amazes me how seldom common sense is
applied when many people teach blind kids.  Concepts that are widely
accepted as educational must-haves, like teachers proficient in the
material they teach, are considered novelties or low priorities for
blind kids.  

		Allison

			----- Original Message ----- 
			From: Dr. Denise M. Robinson
<http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dmehlenbacher@yahoo.com>  
			To: Professionals in Blindness Education
Division List
<http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pibe-division@nfbnet.org>

			Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 10:13 AM
			Subject: Re: [Pibe-division] Comment

Poor teacher skills ARE directly related to poor student outcomes. I
have seen it over and over for the past 20 years as anyone else has in
the field who has good skills and see their students exel and others who
do not because of the teacher who is teaching them with poor skills. 

You cannot teach what you do not know and students cannot learn what you
cannot teach them. You do not need formal research to know this, though
it would not be a bad idea to finally put such a foolish notion to rest.
But how many teachers with poor skills are going to stand up and say
"yes, please test me and show me how poor my skills are and test my
students to show everyone how far behind they are compared to a teacher
with good skills." 

       Denise 

Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D. 
Coordinator for Blind/VI students at ESD105
Teacher of the Blind & Visually Impaired
509-969-3622

--- On Sun, 6/6/10, Carrie Gilmer <carrie.gilmer at gmail.com
<http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=carrie.gilmer@gmail.com> >
wrote:

	From: Carrie Gilmer <carrie.gilmer at gmail.com
<http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=carrie.gilmer@gmail.com> >
	Subject: Re: [Pibe-division] Comment
	To: "'Professionals in Blindness Education Division List'"
<pibe-division at nfbnet.org
<http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pibe-division@nfbnet.org>
>
	Date: Sunday, June 6, 2010, 4:12 PM

	Right on Denise, exactly dead on right on. Thank you for not
being frustrated, bothered and angry in silence. Carrie

________________________________

	From: pibe-division-bounces at nfbnet.org
<http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pibe-division-bounces@nfbn
et.org>  [mailto:pibe-division-bounces at nfbnet.org
<http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pibe-division-bounces@nfbn
et.org> ] On Behalf Of Denise Mackenstadt
	Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:07 PM
	To: pibe-division at nfbnet.org
<http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pibe-division@nfbnet.org> 
	Subject: [Pibe-division] Comment

	Recently on AERnet I noticed a post that bothered me.  I have
responded and I am sending this response to the PIBE list.  Every time I
think that we are making progress something like this comment is used to
justify not providing for the needs of blind kids. Here is the post and
my response: 

	Recently in response to a question posted by Sheila one of the
posts stated "Weaknesses: 1.  still no published research proving or
disproving that poor teacher braille skills are responsible for poor
braille outcomes for students.  Nevertheless,  we've gone full steam
ahead addressing a "problem" that may not exist.  Assertions by advocacy
groups are not evidence, nor are gut hunches.  We need DATA.  And thus
far no data exists."  I find it astonishing that an assertion is being
made that teacher competency in an essential skill to be taught to
students is not relevant to student outcomes.  Lack of Data  cannot
take the place of common sense or best practice.  I cannot think of
another subject area, for example: Language Arts, Math, Science or Art,
where a decent state licensing entity will not expect an instructor to
demonstrate competence.  As a parent I would be very concerned if my
child's English teacher could not read or write English.  Let us not
throw out critical thinking as an alternative to non-existent DATA
Collection.  I do not want to say that legitimate research and
legitimate data results are not beneficial to best practices.  But let
us not sacrifice common sense to the altar of statistics. 

	Denise Mackenstadt, NOMC

	Mackenstadt Rehab Services

	(206)419-9555

	cane.travel at gmail.com
<http://us.mc524.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cane.travel@gmail.com> 

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	-- 
	Kirsten M. Peterson, M.S.Ed. 
	Teacher of Students with Visual Impairments
	Perandoe Special Education District
	1525 Locust 
	Red Bud, IL 62278
	(618) 282-6251 ext. 104

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