[Pibe-division] Digital Handwritten Notes

Dr. Denise M. Robinson dmehlenbacher at yahoo.com
Sun Sep 25 13:41:06 UTC 2011


I LOVE that Lori--when are you going to invent it?
I know, I often think about pulling that chip out of the digimemo and connect it to a knfb reader and seeing what I can do about getting it to read print instead of just text----remember how we all thought "How great" this is just 1 more little step..right?--that is still going around in my brain

 
       Denise 
 
Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D. 
Teacher of the Blind & Visually Impaired
TechVision-Independent Contractor
Specialist in blind programming/teaching/training
509-674-1853     deniserob at gmail.com
 
http://blindgeteducated.blogspot.com/
 



>________________________________
>From: Zephyr <twilight2 at kconline.com>
>To: Professionals in Blindness Education Division List <pibe-division at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 6:26 AM
>Subject: Re: [Pibe-division] Digital Handwritten Notes
>
>
>Now, only if there was a software that would 
identify when the proper or improper strokes are being made.  This could 
helpful for all students.
> 
>I can see an interactive program speaking the 
letter to write, the student embarks, and then the program giving feedback i.e. 
Ok, this time, start your O at the top and go to the left ,etc.
> 
>Ok, I digress...
> 
>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: Dr.  Denise M. Robinson 
>>To: Professionals in Blindness Education  Division List 
>>Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 7:14  AM
>>Subject: Re: [Pibe-division] Digital  Handwritten Notes
>>
>>
>>Lori
>>I tried using many different types of printing. As long as it was  printing...it got it. Cursive..not so much
>> 
>>       Denise 
>> 
>>Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D. 
>>Teacher of the Blind & Visually 
  Impaired
>>TechVision-Independent Contractor
>>Specialist in blind programming/teaching/training
>>509-674-1853     deniserob at gmail.com
>> 
>>http://blindgeteducated.blogspot.com/
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>>________________________________
>>> From: Zephyr  <twilight2 at kconline.com>
>>>To: Professionals in Blindness  Education Division List <pibe-division at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 3:30  AM
>>>Subject: Re:  [Pibe-division] Digital Handwritten Notes
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>Interesting. I wonder how accurate it would be  if you do not use the traditional hand writing techniques. There is a lot  more than just the shape of the letter.
>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>From: David Andrews 
>>>>To: Professionals in Blindness  Education Division List 
>>>>Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2011  7:51 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [Pibe-division] Digital  Handwritten Notes
>>>>
>>>>I read that part of the reason that these kinds of devices  work, and can do OCR on hand-writing is that  they also track, and  know in what order you do the strokes of writing.  This helps them  decide what letters you are drawing.  With a system that only has an  image of writing, it is apparently much more difficult to figure out,  hence no one does it yet.
>>>>
>>>>Dave
>>>>
>>>>\At 08:37 AM 9/23/2011, you 
      wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Ok Albert
>>>>>I 
        had to go to my blog to get it...if you ever need anything repeated I 
        have set up links to all the major products I talk about within the page 
        on the blog
>>>>>but I will save you time--here is the link on 
        amazon
>>>>>http://www.amazon.com/SolidTek-DigiMemo-692-Digital-Notepad/dp/B0009OD4CS/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1316716386&sr=8-3 
>>>>>..remember, you MUST get the handwriting software that goes with 
        it--another 45 bucks...here is another issue...it does take sighted help 
        to select the image and translate it, unless you have practiced your 
        mouse skills then you may be able to do it yourself--
>>>>>I really 
        believe a blind company needs to get a hold of this so they can put it 
        in camera size AND improve some of the inaccessible parts like the 
        selecting of the image
>>>>> 
>>>>>       Denise 
>>>>> 
>>>>>Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D. 
>>>>>Teacher of the 
        Blind & Visually Impaired
>>>>>TechVision-Independent 
        Contractor
>>>>>Specialist in blind 
        programming/teaching/training
>>>>>509-674-1853    deniserob at gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>>http://blindgeteducated.blogspot.com/
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>From: Albert J Rizzi  <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>>>> 
>>>>>To: 'Professionals in Blindness Education Division  List' <pibe-division at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> 
>>>>>Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 4:59 AM
>>>>> 
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Pibe-division] Digital Handwritten  Notes
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Ok. what is the name of that software?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>>>
>>>>>Founder
>>>>>
>>>>>My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>>>
>>>>>90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>>>
>>>>>New York, New York  10004
>>>>>
>>>>>www.myblindspot.org
>>>>>
>>>>>PH: 917-553-0347
>>>>>
>>>>>Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>>>
>>>>>"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the  one who is
>>>>>
>>>>>doing it."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>
>>>>>From: pibe-division-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>>[mailto:pibe-division-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dr. Denise  M.
>>>>>
>>>>>Robinson
>>>>>
>>>>>Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 7:45 AM
>>>>>
>>>>>To: Professionals in Blindness Education Division List
>>>>>
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Pibe-division] Digital Handwritten Notes
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Albert..to add to the story. When I first got the digimemo and  tried it out,
>>>>>
>>>>>then translated it and only got an inaccessible PDF image I was  pretty
>>>>>
>>>>>disgusted, and that is putting it mildly....more research into  this and I
>>>>>
>>>>>found the handwriting translation software. I installed it and  when I copied
>>>>>
>>>>>that image and it made text and jaws talked it...I thought I had  gone to
>>>>>
>>>>>heaven....it was and is that incredible. So the moral here  is....make sure
>>>>>
>>>>>you get both--the tool AND the extra software--smile
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>      Denise 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D. 
>>>>>
>>>>>Teacher of the Blind & Visually Impaired
>>>>>
>>>>>TechVision-Independent Contractor
>>>>>
>>>>>Specialist in blind programming/teaching/training
>>>>>
>>>>>509-674-1853    deniserob at gmail.com <mailto:deniserob at gmail.com> 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>http://blindgeteducated.blogspot.com/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    From: Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org >
>>>>>
>>>>>    To: 'Professionals in Blindness Education  Division List'
>>>>>
>>>>><pibe-division at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>
>>>>>    Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 4:15 AM
>>>>>
>>>>>    Subject: Re: [Pibe-division] Digital  Handwritten Notes
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>    Yes. print is print and cursive is cursive. So  I am fascinated to
>>>>>
>>>>>learn that
>>>>>
>>>>>    this tool can interpret hand printed writing.  Wow. 
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>    Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>>>
>>>>>    Founder
>>>>>
>>>>>    My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>>>
>>>>>    90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>>>
>>>>>    New York, New York  10004
>>>>>
>>>>>    www.myblindspot.org
>>>>>
>>>>>    PH: 917-553-0347
>>>>>
>>>>>    Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>>>
>>>>>    "The person who says it cannot be done,  shouldn't interrupt the one
>>>>>
>>>>>who is
>>>>>
>>>>>    doing it."
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>    Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>    -----Original Message-----
>>>>>
>>>>>    From: pibe-division-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>>    [mailto:pibe-division-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dr. Denise  M.
>>>>>
>>>>>    Robinson
>>>>>
>>>>>    Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 6:20 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>    To: Professionals in Blindness Education  Division List
>>>>>
>>>>>    Subject: Re: [Pibe-division] Digital  Handwritten Notes
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>    Albert
>>>>>
>>>>>    I need to be careful here, yes, hand written  notes as in printed
>>>>>
>>>>>text. I did
>>>>>
>>>>>    try cursive, but it misses too many of the  characters and does not
>>>>>
>>>>>translate
>>>>>
>>>>>    well...printing letters as in from the  hand....did I do a better job
>>>>>
>>>>>of
>>>>>
>>>>>    explaining?--smile
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>          Denise 
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>    Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D. 
>>>>>
>>>>>    Teacher of the Blind & Visually 
Impaired
>>>>>
>>>>>    TechVision-Independent Contractor
>>>>>
>>>>>    Specialist in blind  programming/teaching/training
>>>>>
>>>>>    509-674-1853    deniserob at gmail.com <mailto:deniserob at gmail.com> 
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>    http://blindgeteducated.blogspot.com/
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>>    ________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>        From: Albert J Rizzi  <albert at myblindspot.org >
>>>>>
>>>>>        To: 'Professionals in  Blindness Education Division List'
>>>>>
>>>>>    <pibe-division at nfbnet.org >
>>>>>
>>>>>        Sent: Thursday,  September 22, 2011 2:25 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>        Subject: Re:  [Pibe-division] Digital Handwritten Notes
>>>>>
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>>        Denise,
>>>>>
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>>        Not sure I am  understanding you. when I saw it demonstrated it
>>>>>
>>>>>was
>>>>>
>>>>>    doing so
>>>>>
>>>>>        with printed text. are  you saying it can also do the same thing
>>>>>
>>>>>with
>>>>>
>>>>>    hand
>>>>>
>>>>>        written documents?
>>>>>
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>>        Albert J. Rizzi,  M.Ed.
>>>>>
>>>>>        Founder
>>>>>
>>>>>        My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>>>
>>>>>        90 Broad Street - 18th  Fl.
>>>>>
>>>>>        New York, New  York  10004
>>>>>
>>>>>        www.myblindspot.org
>>>>>
>>>>>        PH: 917-553-0347
>>>>>
>>>>>        Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>>>
>>>>>        "The person who says it  cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the
>>>>>
>>>>>one
>>>>>
>>>>>    who is
>>>>>
>>>>>        doing it."
>>>>>
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>>        Visit us on Facebook  LinkedIn
>>>>>
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>>        -----Original  Message-----
>>>>>
>>>>>        From: pibe-division-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>>        [mailto:pibe-division-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dr.
>>>>>
>>>>>Denise M.
>>>>>
>>>>>        Robinson
>>>>>
>>>>>        Sent: Thursday,  September 22, 2011 5:16 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>        To: Professionals in  Blindness Education Division List
>>>>>
>>>>>        Subject: Re:  [Pibe-division] Digital Handwritten Notes
>>>>>
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>>        Albert
>>>>>
>>>>>        Yes, I am so amazed at  the accuracy too. I tried drawing pies
>>>>>
>>>>>and
>>>>>
>>>>>    other
>>>>>
>>>>>        graphs and though when  you translate the handwriting into text
>>>>>
>>>>>it
>>>>>
>>>>>    will take
>>>>>
>>>>>        out the pictures, but  the words are still there. If low vision,
>>>>>
>>>>>you
>>>>>
>>>>>    can get
>>>>>
>>>>>        a PDF image of it and  enlarge for the low vision student, or
>>>>>
>>>>>just
>>>>>
>>>>>    keep it on
>>>>>
>>>>>        the computer and they  can enlarge it themselves...technology is
>>>>>
>>>>>    really a wow
>>>>>
>>>>>        thing
>>>>>
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>>               Denise 
>>>>>
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>>        Denise M. Robinson,  TVI, Ph.D. 
>>>>>
>>>>>        Teacher of the Blind  & Visually Impaired
>>>>>
>>>>>        TechVision-Independent  Contractor
>>>>>
>>>>>        Specialist in blind  programming/teaching/training
>>>>>
>>>>>         509-674-1853    deniserob at gmail.com <mailto:deniserob at gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>>        http://blindgeteducated.blogspot.com/
>>>>>
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>
>>>>>             From: Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org >
>>>>>
>>>>>             To: 'Professionals in Blindness Education Division List'
>>>>>
>>>>>        <pibe-division at nfbnet.org >
>>>>>
>>>>>             Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 12:51 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>             Subject: Re: [Pibe-division] Digital Handwritten Notes
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>
>>>>>             Denise and all,
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>
>>>>>             I actually had a friend  who uses this tool demonstrate the
>>>>>
>>>>>same
>>>>>
>>>>>    in
>>>>>
>>>>>        my
>>>>>
>>>>>             presence. It is fantastic  and very very precise. It is more
>>>>>
>>>>>    precise
>>>>>
>>>>>        then my
>>>>>
>>>>>             kursweil scanner. 
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>
>>>>>             Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>>>
>>>>>             Founder
>>>>>
>>>>>             My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>>>
>>>>>             90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>>>
>>>>>             New York, New York  10004
>>>>>
>>>>>            www.myblindspot.org
>>>>>
>>>>>             PH: 917-553-0347
>>>>>
>>>>>             Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>>>
>>>>>             "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt
>>>>>
>>>>>the
>>>>>
>>>>>    one
>>>>>
>>>>>        who is
>>>>>
>>>>>             doing it."
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>
>>>>>             Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>
>>>>>             -----Original Message-----
>>>>>
>>>>>             From: pibe-division-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>>             [mailto:pibe-division-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dr.
>>>>>
>>>>>    Denise M.
>>>>>
>>>>>             Robinson
>>>>>
>>>>>             Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 3:32 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>             To: Professionals in Blindness Education Division List
>>>>>
>>>>>             Subject: Re: [Pibe-division] Digital Handwritten Notes
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>
>>>>>             Ok Lori--there is
>>>>>
>>>>>             The NFB-Kurzweil reader is the size of a phone because it is
>>>>>
>>>>>a
>>>>>
>>>>>    phone
>>>>>
>>>>>        but
>>>>>
>>>>>             also has a camera attached. You hold it over anything in
>>>>>
>>>>>print
>>>>>
>>>>>    about
>>>>>
>>>>>        your
>>>>>
>>>>>             elbow to arm length, take a picture and it will read the
>>>>>
>>>>>text to
>>>>>
>>>>>        you. I will
>>>>>
>>>>>             do a longer blog on this to more fully explain its
>>>>>
>>>>>capabilites 
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>
>>>>>                   Denise 
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>
>>>>>             Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D. 
>>>>>
>>>>>             Teacher of the Blind & Visually Impaired
>>>>>
>>>>>             TechVision-Independent Contractor
>>>>>
>>>>>             Specialist in blind programming/teaching/training
>>>>>
>>>>>             509-674-1853    deniserob at gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>><mailto:deniserob at gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>
>>>>>            http://blindgeteducated.blogspot.com/
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>
>>>>>                
>>>>>
>>>>>                 From: Zephyr <twilight2 at kconline.com >
>>>>>
>>>>>                 To: Professionals in Blindness Education Division List
>>>>>
>>>>>             <pibe-division at nfbnet.org >
>>>>>
>>>>>                 Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 12:04 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>                 Subject: Re: [Pibe-division] Digital Handwritten Notes
>>>>>
>>>>>                
>>>>>
>>>>>                
>>>>>
>>>>>                 Wow! It's not Sci-fi any more?
>>>>>
>>>>>                
>>>>>
>>>>>                 Now, I want an ap that can scan and read hand-writing. I
>>>>>
>>>>>can
>>>>>
>>>>>        always
>>>>>
>>>>>             hope there already something in existence that I am just in
>>>>>
>>>>>the
>>>>>
>>>>>    dark
>>>>>
>>>>>        about.
>>>>>
>>>>>                
>>>>>
>>>>>                 Thanks for sharing the topics which should be brought to
>>>>>
>>>>>the
>>>>>
>>>>>             attention of all blind students, families, and teachers and
>>>>>
>>>>>        administrators.
>>>>>
>>>>>                
>>>>>
>>>>>                
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>
>>>>>                     ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>
>>>>>                     From: Dr. Denise M. Robinson
>>>>>
>>>>>             <mailto:dmehlenbacher at yahoo.com> 
>>>>>
>>>>>                     To: Professionals in Blindness Education Division
>>>>>
>>>>>List
>>>>>
>>>>>             <mailto:pibe-division at nfbnet.org>>>>>
>>>>>                     Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 2:44 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>                     Subject: [Pibe-division] Digital Handwritten Notes
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>
>>>>>                    
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>
>>>>>                     Digital Handwritten Notes
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>><http://blindgeteducated.blogspot.com/2011/09/digital-handwritten-notes.html 
>>>>>
>>>>>             >  
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>
>>>>>                     Digital Handwritten Notes. it sounds like an
>>>>>
>>>>>    oxymoron...kind
>>>>>
>>>>>             of like a hairy bald guy, but it is here.
>>>>>
>>>>>                    
>>>>>
>>>>>                     The writing surface is about the size of a small
>>>>>
>>>>>piece
>>>>>
>>>>>    of
>>>>>
>>>>>             paper. The whole board is light and easy to carry and about
>>>>>
>>>>>the
>>>>>
>>>>>    size
>>>>>
>>>>>        of an
>>>>>
>>>>>             8x11 piece of paper. It is a tiny computer and you can add
>>>>>
>>>>>more
>>>>>
>>>>>    RAM-
>>>>>
>>>>>        with a
>>>>>
>>>>>             memory card. 
>>>>>
>>>>>                    
>>>>>
>>>>>                     The blind student can take the digital note-taking
>>>>>
>>>>>    device to
>>>>>
>>>>>             a class where the teacher is very driven by writing on the
>>>>>
>>>>>    board.
>>>>>
>>>>>        The blind
>>>>>
>>>>>             student hands it to a sighted student and she takes notes on
>>>>>
>>>>>it.
>>>>>
>>>>>    At
>>>>>
>>>>>        the end
>>>>>
>>>>>             of class, the sighted student rips off the pages for
>>>>>
>>>>>themself
>>>>>
>>>>>    and
>>>>>
>>>>>        hands the
>>>>>
>>>>>             board back to the blind student. The blind student can then
>>>>>
>>>>>    download
>>>>>
>>>>>        all the
>>>>>
>>>>>             notes onto the computer. In tangent with this is a
>>>>>
>>>>>handwriting
>>>>>
>>>>>        recognition
>>>>>
>>>>>             tool, which translates the handwriting into digital text
>>>>>
>>>>>that
>>>>>
>>>>>        talking
>>>>>
>>>>>             software can read. Note taking made easy.
>>>>>
>>>>>                    
>>>>>
>>>>>                     This is the one I have been using and as long as the
>>>>>
>>>>>             handwritten notes are legible, the pad can read it to the
>>>>>
>>>>>    computer.
>>>>>
>>>>>        SolidTek
>>>>>
>>>>>             DigiMemo 692 Digital Notepad with Memory by SolidTek
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>><http://www.amazon.com/SolidTek-DigiMemo-692-Digital-Notepad/dp/B0009OD4CS/r 
>>>>>
>>>>>             ef=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1316716386&sr=8-3> 
>>>>>
>>>>>                    
>>>>>
>>>>>                     If you read this information in my blog,
>>>>>
>>>>>            http://blindgeteducated.blogspot.com/ you can just  click on
>>>>>
>>>>>the
>>>>>
>>>>>        links and it
>>>>>
>>>>>             will take you directly to the product, or if you are using
>>>>>
>>>>>    talking
>>>>>
>>>>>        software,
>>>>>
>>>>>             just bring up your links and you can go to the product. This
>>>>>
>>>>>is
>>>>>
>>>>>    true
>>>>>
>>>>>        for all
>>>>>
>>>>>             the information in the blog.
>>>>>
>>>>>                    
>>>>>
>>>>>                    
>>>>>
>>>>>                           Denise 
>>>>>
>>>>>                    
>>>>>
>>>>>                     Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D. 
>>>>>
>>>>>                     Teacher of the Blind & Visually Impaired
>>>>>
>>>>>                     TechVision-Independent Contractor
>>>>>
>>>>>                     Specialist in blind programming/teaching/training
>>>>>
>>>>>                     509-674-1853    deniserob at gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>             <mailto:deniserob at gmail.com> 
>>>>________________________________
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>Pibe-division mailing 
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>>>>________________________________
>>>>  
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>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>
>>________________________________
>> _______________________________________________
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