[Quietcars] quiet taxis in New York City

[Ken Stewart]

On December 3rd, the last of the taxi fora held in
each of the five boroughs, was held in Manhattan
hosted by Lawrence Carter-Long
> Director of Advocacy, Disabilities Network of NYC. 
Below are several questions I asked and the answers
from Semara Epstein of the City's Taxi & Limousine
Commission, imperfectly recorded by a human
transcriber who was present and slightly edited by me
.

==============
> 
>     KEN STEWART:  Okay.  I have actually, four
> questions,
> but maybe one at a time.  First question is -- and I
> don't know who
> can answer this, but some time ago, I heard that
> there was a TLC
> consumer advisory committee.  So my first question
> is:  What can
> anybody tell us about that consumer advisory
> committee?  Who is on it?
> How often do they meet, and can the public have
> input through that
> advisory committee.
>     SAMARA:  Okay.  This is Samara Epstein, NYC Taxi
> and Limousine
> Commission.  And I guess we can say we have a series
> of advisory
> boards.  They haven't met in a while.  We've been
> reshaping them, because
> for years, there have been people on the boards. 
> Some of them haven't
> been involved in making these decisions, so we're
> working on making
> those more productive work sessions, where we can
> bring new policies
> forward.  They haven't met in a while, because
> they've been going through
> that process.
>     KEN STEWART:  I'm sorry.  How many people are on
> it?
>     SAMARA:  Right now, I can't tell you that.  They
> are mandated by
> the administrative code.  I can't remember off the
> top of my head.  It's
> been a while since I've looked at it.  But we have
> -- one is a taxi and
> limousine advisory board.  It's a very old law.  It
> mandates 16
> positions, but it says in the code there's only
> supposed to be 15
> positions.  And there are a handful of other boards.
>  I think the
> livery board and the disability advisory board. 
> They're all in the
> administrative code of the City of New York.  Those
> are mandated by
> them.  The last meeting we had I believe was in
> 2007, as I mentioned,
> this year we've been working on reshaping them.  It
> we've also had a
> few other boards that weren't plan dated but TLC had
> done at some
> point, so we're figuring out the best way to get
> that feedback.  I am
> interested in having a core group of folks that are
> interested in
> providing me with feedback and working on things
> productively, so I
> don't have a list of current people, because we're
> working on it. There's also a driver advisory
> board that is yet to be
> formed, that was legislated.
>     LAWRENCE:  Okay.  Thanks.  We'll come back to
> you if there's time
> toward the end, Ken.
>     KEN STEWART:  Okay.  Question number two of
> four.  As of October
> first, we were told there bass a directive that all
> additional taxis
> added to the fleet must be environmentally friendly
> hybrids or
> vehicles that can operate electrically.  That kind
> of vehicle in the
> blind community is called a quiet car, and it's very
> scary, because
> blind people and some other groups depend on the
> sounds of vehicles to
> knee where they are, bicycles, riders, kids, and
> pedestrians.  So I'm
> wondering what's the status of that requirement, and
> will the TLC have
> any requirement that any quiet taxi needs to have an
> audible aspect
> added to it?
>     SAMARA:  Ken is well researched.  Good question.
>  So the October
> first mandate in the industry group -- they sued the
> taxi and
> limousine commission over that mandate.  So right
> now, that isn't
> going into effect.  But we are encouraging the
> purchase of hybrid
> vehicles through other means, so that does mean we
> expect the number
> of hybrids to grow.  12% of the fleet is hybrid, and
> people are
> concerned about the lack of noise.  I know that's a
> widespread issue
> with hybrid production in general.  Through the taxi
> of tomorrow
> project, I had the opportunity talk to some
> manufacturers, and I know
> that at least one of them that's planning on putting
> a sound in the
> future hybrids, so that when they're on that
> electric mode, it'll have
> a humming noise that people will be able to hear. 
> So certainly as
> part of the taxi of tomorrow, if that's something
> that we're able to
> get -- I think that is an important component to
> involve in that, but
> as far as the hybrids that go on the road now, we
> purchase what is
> available, and they don't make that sound yet.  But
> as soon as they
> do, that's certainly something that should be
> brought to the dialogue.
> I understand that's a big issue.
>     [unidentified man in audience]:  I think now is
the time for me to
> bring up -- this is
> something I live with.  Currently the MTA has a
> class action suit
> going on about the sound that comes out of the
> buses.  It is so bloody
> loud and high pitched that you can hear it on
> whatever floor you're
> on.  The 20th, 30th floor.  This is my concern. 
> That's why I appeared
> at this meeting today.  I was waiting for this issue
> to come up.  I
> don't know what you mean by humming sound.  I know
> that the TLC has
> been told about this problem from an assembly member
> that does some
> work for a disability rights group.  Can you respond
> it that?  Because
> that's... I hide out with this.
>     SAMARA:  I just want to make sure I understand
> your question.
> Your concern is the lack of noise or too much noise?
>     LAWRENCE:  Or the type of noise.
[same unidentified man]:  It's the type of noise. 
Like,
> when you get a bus coming
> -- I don't know what you do with the taxis that are
> accessible.  When
> that thing has to come out, the ramp, or when
> vehicles back up, there
> are too many high pitched sounds that are making
> people crazy.  And a
> bus driver is going deaf from it.  He started a
> class action suit.  So
> I agree that a sound is needed, but for that sound
> to have some kind
> of decibel and pitch control level.  So that we're
> not suffering in
> the city.  We need to get rid of some of these
> hypersounds that we
> already have.
>     SAMARA:  My responses are two fold.  One is, the
> taxi of tomorrow,
> where ideally the TLC will be able to ask for what
> we want -- that's
> something that we can take into consideration, and
> we will rely on
> members of the community, and all of our different
> stakeholders from
> the industry and drivers to help us with that
> process.  We're not
> there yet, but I think that's a fair point.  In
> terms of the other
> vehicles that are being puts on the road right now,
> the TLC really
> can't ask the manufacturers to do anything specific
> until they do it.
> They don't make cars or taxis.  They make them for
> everybody in the
> United States or whoever their consumers are.  And
> so I can't go to a
> company -- although we can talk to the manufacturers
> -- you know, it
> took years and years and years to extend that kind
> of -- their doors
> six inches.  They were focusing on the taxi market. 
> Most
> manufacturers -- it's 3,000 cars a year that come to
> the New York
> City, and we are the biggest purchaser of taxis in
> the United States.
> It's not a big enough market for them to do
> something just for us, but
> with the taxi of tomorrow project, if it's something
> that we can
> affect, it's something we'll take into
> consideration.
>     LAWRENCE:  Since we're having a dialogue here,
> is there any
> recognized or understood standard that would meet a
> number of
> criteria?  I think that's what we have to really
> recognize.  If we're
> gonna ask somebody to make something.
>     SAMARA:  There isn't a standard right now.  I
> think this is a
> fairly new issue, as far as manufacturing goes, and
> so it's for the
> activists in the room to tell our federal leaders
> that are making
> these laws about how things have to be manufactured,
> that that's where
> it needs to come from.  The TLC doesn't have the
> ability to mandate
> something like that.
>     LAWRENCE:  Okay.  We'll go to Ken.  Let you get
> your final
> question in.  And go ahead.
>     KEN STEWART:  Thank you very much.  I'll turn
> the other question into
> a statement.  I wanted to respond quickly to the
> concern expressed in
> on the floor about the sounds that a taxi might
> have.  There will be
> no problem with that at all.  Every vehicle creates
sound  primarily  when they're traveling 20 or 30
miles an hour by wind
> turbulence and tires on pavement.  So we
> don't need to put any additional sounds on hybrids
traveling at higher speeds. 
> They need a sound
> when they're interacting with pedestrians like on a
> crosswalk or make
> being a turn five miles an hour.  It's nothing that
> will be heard
> by any resident nearby.  Something that would be
> comparable to
> the low sound of an engine as it's maneuvering in an
> intersection and
> so forth.  Another thing -- orange county in
> California is one of the
> places that do that.  They use taxis tour a lot of
> the paratransit
> rides, and it's a win/win for everybody.  It would
save
> the taxpayers a lot
> of money if the paratransit system in New York City
> diverted some
> of those bookings to accessible taxis.
  What
> specific requirements are
> there for accessible taxis for blind people?  What
> do they have to
> have?  The pay systems and devices that take credit
> cards can't just
> have a touch screen with no audible or tactual
> aspect, so I'm
> wondering what specifically will be required for an
> accessible taxi to
> be accessible for a blind user?
>     SAMARA:  As I mentioned in the beginning, and
> I've been criticized
> before.  It should be really a wheelchair accessible
> taxi.  We're
> talking about the ramp.  In terms of other
> accessibility, though, the
> message about the screens is something that's been
> brought up in every
> forum, and I understand it's an issue.  We're
> talking about it -- at
> the agency.  The contracts -- the owners of the
> taxis have contracts
> with three different vendors to provide the screens
> and the payment
> systems and all of that stuff, and those contracts
> are going to be up
> in, I think, a year.  And that enables us to change
> the contracts for
> the next time around to include much better
> components for someone
> that is going to be able to feel something on that
> screen to turn it
> on and off, use it, know how to pay, and we're gonna
> be sure to
> involve people in that process so that it works
> better the next time
> around.  I do understand it's not good for someone
> who needs to be
> able to feel that right now, and it's a problem.  I
> just can't remedy
> it until the next round of that.  Right now, with
> the vendors that
> exist, can we at least get the off button in the
> same location on each
> screen.  There are three different providers, and
> they all have a
> different setup.  We're starting off with that, but
> as we do contract
> negotiations, we will consider what you're talking
> about.