[Quietcars] quiet taxis in New York City

[Corbb O'Connor]

Ken,

As always, your postings make for an interesting read! Sounds like  
Samara is interested in a discussion and not a one-size-fits-all  
approach. How did you hear about this meeting? I'd be interested in  
seeing if Northern Virginia or Washington, DC has any meetings like  
this planned. One other note: if the law mandates this advisory board,  
it seems like the association is violating the law by not holding  
meetings of the group! But, let's hope those do resume after they're  
"reshaped."

Thanks, Ken!
Corbb

-----
Corbb O'Connor
studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway

On Dec 11, 2008, at 10:41 PM, Ken Stewart wrote:


On December 3rd, the last of the taxi fora held in
each of the five boroughs, was held in Manhattan
hosted by Lawrence Carter-Long
> Director of Advocacy, Disabilities Network of NYC.
Below are several questions I asked and the answers
from Semara Epstein of the City's Taxi & Limousine
Commission, imperfectly recorded by a human
transcriber who was present and slightly edited by me
.

==============
>
>    KEN STEWART:  Okay.  I have actually, four
> questions,
> but maybe one at a time.  First question is -- and I
> don't know who
> can answer this, but some time ago, I heard that
> there was a TLC
> consumer advisory committee.  So my first question
> is:  What can
> anybody tell us about that consumer advisory
> committee?  Who is on it?
> How often do they meet, and can the public have
> input through that
> advisory committee.
>    SAMARA:  Okay.  This is Samara Epstein, NYC Taxi
> and Limousine
> Commission.  And I guess we can say we have a series
> of advisory
> boards.  They haven't met in a while.  We've been
> reshaping them, because
> for years, there have been people on the boards.
> Some of them haven't
> been involved in making these decisions, so we're
> working on making
> those more productive work sessions, where we can
> bring new policies
> forward.  They haven't met in a while, because
> they've been going through
> that process.
>    KEN STEWART:  I'm sorry.  How many people are on
> it?
>    SAMARA:  Right now, I can't tell you that.  They
> are mandated by
> the administrative code.  I can't remember off the
> top of my head.  It's
> been a while since I've looked at it.  But we have
> -- one is a taxi and
> limousine advisory board.  It's a very old law.  It
> mandates 16
> positions, but it says in the code there's only
> supposed to be 15
> positions.  And there are a handful of other boards.
> I think the
> livery board and the disability advisory board.
> They're all in the
> administrative code of the City of New York.  Those
> are mandated by
> them.  The last meeting we had I believe was in
> 2007, as I mentioned,
> this year we've been working on reshaping them.  It
> we've also had a
> few other boards that weren't plan dated but TLC had
> done at some
> point, so we're figuring out the best way to get
> that feedback.  I am
> interested in having a core group of folks that are
> interested in
> providing me with feedback and working on things
> productively, so I
> don't have a list of current people, because we're
> working on it. There's also a driver advisory
> board that is yet to be
> formed, that was legislated.
>    LAWRENCE:  Okay.  Thanks.  We'll come back to
> you if there's time
> toward the end, Ken.
>    KEN STEWART:  Okay.  Question number two of
> four.  As of October
> first, we were told there bass a directive that all
> additional taxis
> added to the fleet must be environmentally friendly
> hybrids or
> vehicles that can operate electrically.  That kind
> of vehicle in the
> blind community is called a quiet car, and it's very
> scary, because
> blind people and some other groups depend on the
> sounds of vehicles to
> knee where they are, bicycles, riders, kids, and
> pedestrians.  So I'm
> wondering what's the status of that requirement, and
> will the TLC have
> any requirement that any quiet taxi needs to have an
> audible aspect
> added to it?
>    SAMARA:  Ken is well researched.  Good question.
> So the October
> first mandate in the industry group -- they sued the
> taxi and
> limousine commission over that mandate.  So right
> now, that isn't
> going into effect.  But we are encouraging the
> purchase of hybrid
> vehicles through other means, so that does mean we
> expect the number
> of hybrids to grow.  12% of the fleet is hybrid, and
> people are
> concerned about the lack of noise.  I know that's a
> widespread issue
> with hybrid production in general.  Through the taxi
> of tomorrow
> project, I had the opportunity talk to some
> manufacturers, and I know
> that at least one of them that's planning on putting
> a sound in the
> future hybrids, so that when they're on that
> electric mode, it'll have
> a humming noise that people will be able to hear.
> So certainly as
> part of the taxi of tomorrow, if that's something
> that we're able to
> get -- I think that is an important component to
> involve in that, but
> as far as the hybrids that go on the road now, we
> purchase what is
> available, and they don't make that sound yet.  But
> as soon as they
> do, that's certainly something that should be
> brought to the dialogue.
> I understand that's a big issue.
>    [unidentified man in audience]:  I think now is
the time for me to
> bring up -- this is
> something I live with.  Currently the MTA has a
> class action suit
> going on about the sound that comes out of the
> buses.  It is so bloody
> loud and high pitched that you can hear it on
> whatever floor you're
> on.  The 20th, 30th floor.  This is my concern.
> That's why I appeared
> at this meeting today.  I was waiting for this issue
> to come up.  I
> don't know what you mean by humming sound.  I know
> that the TLC has
> been told about this problem from an assembly member
> that does some
> work for a disability rights group.  Can you respond
> it that?  Because
> that's... I hide out with this.
>    SAMARA:  I just want to make sure I understand
> your question.
> Your concern is the lack of noise or too much noise?
>    LAWRENCE:  Or the type of noise.
[same unidentified man]:  It's the type of noise.
Like,
> when you get a bus coming
> -- I don't know what you do with the taxis that are
> accessible.  When
> that thing has to come out, the ramp, or when
> vehicles back up, there
> are too many high pitched sounds that are making
> people crazy.  And a
> bus driver is going deaf from it.  He started a
> class action suit.  So
> I agree that a sound is needed, but for that sound
> to have some kind
> of decibel and pitch control level.  So that we're
> not suffering in
> the city.  We need to get rid of some of these
> hypersounds that we
> already have.
>    SAMARA:  My responses are two fold.  One is, the
> taxi of tomorrow,
> where ideally the TLC will be able to ask for what
> we want -- that's
> something that we can take into consideration, and
> we will rely on
> members of the community, and all of our different
> stakeholders from
> the industry and drivers to help us with that
> process.  We're not
> there yet, but I think that's a fair point.  In
> terms of the other
> vehicles that are being puts on the road right now,
> the TLC really
> can't ask the manufacturers to do anything specific
> until they do it.
> They don't make cars or taxis.  They make them for
> everybody in the
> United States or whoever their consumers are.  And
> so I can't go to a
> company -- although we can talk to the manufacturers
> -- you know, it
> took years and years and years to extend that kind
> of -- their doors
> six inches.  They were focusing on the taxi market.
> Most
> manufacturers -- it's 3,000 cars a year that come to
> the New York
> City, and we are the biggest purchaser of taxis in
> the United States.
> It's not a big enough market for them to do
> something just for us, but
> with the taxi of tomorrow project, if it's something
> that we can
> affect, it's something we'll take into
> consideration.
>    LAWRENCE:  Since we're having a dialogue here,
> is there any
> recognized or understood standard that would meet a
> number of
> criteria?  I think that's what we have to really
> recognize.  If we're
> gonna ask somebody to make something.
>    SAMARA:  There isn't a standard right now.  I
> think this is a
> fairly new issue, as far as manufacturing goes, and
> so it's for the
> activists in the room to tell our federal leaders
> that are making
> these laws about how things have to be manufactured,
> that that's where
> it needs to come from.  The TLC doesn't have the
> ability to mandate
> something like that.
>    LAWRENCE:  Okay.  We'll go to Ken.  Let you get
> your final
> question in.  And go ahead.
>    KEN STEWART:  Thank you very much.  I'll turn
> the other question into
> a statement.  I wanted to respond quickly to the
> concern expressed in
> on the floor about the sounds that a taxi might
> have.  There will be
> no problem with that at all.  Every vehicle creates
sound  primarily  when they're traveling 20 or 30
miles an hour by wind
> turbulence and tires on pavement.  So we
> don't need to put any additional sounds on hybrids
traveling at higher speeds.
> They need a sound
> when they're interacting with pedestrians like on a
> crosswalk or make
> being a turn five miles an hour.  It's nothing that
> will be heard
> by any resident nearby.  Something that would be
> comparable to
> the low sound of an engine as it's maneuvering in an
> intersection and
> so forth.  Another thing -- orange county in
> California is one of the
> places that do that.  They use taxis tour a lot of
> the paratransit
> rides, and it's a win/win for everybody.  It would
save
> the taxpayers a lot
> of money if the paratransit system in New York City
> diverted some
> of those bookings to accessible taxis.
  What
> specific requirements are
> there for accessible taxis for blind people?  What
> do they have to
> have?  The pay systems and devices that take credit
> cards can't just
> have a touch screen with no audible or tactual
> aspect, so I'm
> wondering what specifically will be required for an
> accessible taxi to
> be accessible for a blind user?
>    SAMARA:  As I mentioned in the beginning, and
> I've been criticized
> before.  It should be really a wheelchair accessible
> taxi.  We're
> talking about the ramp.  In terms of other
> accessibility, though, the
> message about the screens is something that's been
> brought up in every
> forum, and I understand it's an issue.  We're
> talking about it -- at
> the agency.  The contracts -- the owners of the
> taxis have contracts
> with three different vendors to provide the screens
> and the payment
> systems and all of that stuff, and those contracts
> are going to be up
> in, I think, a year.  And that enables us to change
> the contracts for
> the next time around to include much better
> components for someone
> that is going to be able to feel something on that
> screen to turn it
> on and off, use it, know how to pay, and we're gonna
> be sure to
> involve people in that process so that it works
> better the next time
> around.  I do understand it's not good for someone
> who needs to be
> able to feel that right now, and it's a problem.  I
> just can't remedy
> it until the next round of that.  Right now, with
> the vendors that
> exist, can we at least get the off button in the
> same location on each
> screen.  There are three different providers, and
> they all have a
> different setup.  We're starting off with that, but
> as we do contract
> negotiations, we will consider what you're talking
> about.








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