[Quietcars] Hybrid vehicles' silence seen as posing peril, MSNBC.com, June 8, 2009

[dewey bradley]

pull your head out of your butt, I've almost gotten hit by one of these 
things.
Or are you going to tell me that I just can't travel or something.
Are you one of these people that think that if they have not seen something 
them selves, then It doesnt exist?
I know someone else like this, he thinks that because he has  a job, that 
everyone else that can't find one are just being lazy.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "michael townsend" <mrtownsend at optonline.net>
To: "'Discussion of new quiet cars and pedestrian safety'" 
<quietcars at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Quietcars] Hybrid vehicles' silence seen as posing peril, 
MSNBC.com, June 8, 2009


>I really think that what needs to be done here is that all writers have to
> get on the same page.
>
> Most hybrid cars have badges denoting that they are hybrids.
>
> Blindness organizations have to understand that safety is a key issue 
> here,
> but that peole are working on testing, legislation, the type of 
> arrangements
> that will solve the issue, and we as a community have to become more
> familiar with the vehicles.
>
> Several dog guide schools have these cars in their fleets in order to 
> train
> students and dogs to react to them.
>
> State agencies who offer cane travel should allow students to see a hybrid
> up close so that they too can know what the hybrid is all about.
>
> Hard of hearing, the elderly, bicyclists, these emergency workers, etc., 
> all
> are effected.
>
> The term silent killer is way overblown, and I do not accept this.  It is
> sensational journalism, a tool which has been used to slant the news and
> evoke an emotional response as long as reporters have been writing 
> stories.
>
>
> The ACB and NFB have been working together to try and put forth 
> legislation,
> as have several of our concerned congress and senate representatives to 
> find
> a solution to this issue.  But, as a person first, and a person who 
> happens
> not to see, who travels with a dog, I'll tell you that I'm growing tired 
> of
> these articles written with the pity party in mind.  You may not like what 
> I
> have to say, but I am an advocate for the blind, for access and safety, 
> and
> I find this abhorrent and offensive that the tone continues to be, "look
> what they're doing to us."
>
> I appreciate everyone's effort to try and work through the issues that
> concern us regarding this, but news displays like this, in my very humble
> opinion, don't do anything but drive a wedge between the auto 
> manufacturers,
> the public and we who need to be more proactive rather than reactive as 
> this
> article appears to revealing.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: quietcars-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:quietcars-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
> On
> Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel
> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 7:19 PM
> To: 'quietcars at nfbnet.org'
> Subject: [Quietcars] Hybrid vehicles' silence seen as posing peril,
> MSNBC.com, June 8, 2009
>
>
> Link:
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31112317/from/ET/
>
> Text:
> Hybrid vehicles' silence seen as posing peril Emergency workers share
> concern of advocates for blind over quiet motors By Alex Johnson Monday,
> June 8, 2009
>
> As the car crept up to them, the students didn't react. It wasn't until it
> was about to run them over that they even knew it was there. And that was
> only because it hit their white canes.
>
> The hybrid car's electric motor had kicked in. And the students, all of 
> whom
> are blind, couldn't hear it.
>
> "It came up, and it was right there. We had no idea it was even coming,"
> said Chad Wilburn, one of students, who took part in a demonstration of 
> the
> new hazard posed by the quiet hybrid vehicles earlier this year in Salt 
> Lake
> City by the Utah Center for the Blind.
>
> Advocates for the sight-impaired say the vroom of a conventional engine is
> the only sure way a blind pedestrian can know that he or she may be 
> walking
> into the path of an approaching car. They have been pushing for safety
> measures for several years, and Congress is considering a bill that would
> order the Transportation Department to make sure hybrids and the coming
> generation of all-electric vehicles make enough noise to be heard.
>
> But they're not the only ones worried about the silence. Emergency workers
> are raising the alarm, too, saying it can be hard to tell whether a 
> hybrid's
> engine is still running at the scene of an accident.
>
> "If it's in gear, it can lurch forward and injure someone," said James
> Surrell, a physician at Marquette General Hospital in Michigan, who 
> teaches
> hybrid safety classes for rescue workers and emergency medical 
> technicians.
>
> Hybrids' electronic motors offer several other challenges for emergency
> workers at the scene of an accident. The biggest is that they are 
> electronic
> motors.
>
> In addition to a standard 12-volt battery under the hood, a typical hybrid
> engine uses another battery under the back seat that packs as many as 600
> volts - more than enough to cause instantaneous death.
>
> There have been no documented reports of any emergency worker's having 
> been
> electrocuted by a hybrid battery in the United States. But in literature
> they publish for emergency responders, nearly all manufacturers include
> vivid warnings like this one in the first-response manual for the Nissan
> Altima Hybrid: "Failure to disable the high voltage electrical system 
> before
> emergency response procedures are performed may result in serious injury 
> or
> death from electrical shock."
>
> First puzzle: Is it a hybrid?
>
> On the road, government safety tests indicate that hybrid vehicles are 
> just
> as safe as their gas-powered counterparts. Any concerns come from what to 
> do
> once one of them has been in an accident.
>
> The high-voltage batteries are thoroughly sealed in protective metal, and
> there is little chance that they could leak or explode. In fact, hybrid
> engines are packed with automatic sensors designed to stop the flow of
> electricity on impact or whenever the side-impact air bags deploy.
>
> But that assumes the sensors themselves haven't been damaged.
>
> In its guide for emergency responders, Toyota, whose Prius popularized
> hybrids in the United States, warns crews to "never assume the Prius is 
> shut
> off simply because it is silent."
>
> Emergency agencies across the nation have added specialized training for
> workers responding to accident scenes involving hybrids, like a hybrid
> safety seminar last month at the Lamar Institute of Technology in 
> Beaumont,
> Texas. That's because "we're worried about forced entry into a hybrid and
> using the jaws of life," said Brad Pennison, a captain with the Beaumont
> Fire Department.
>
> At these seminars, crews learn that the first difficulty is recognizing 
> that
> a vehicle is, in fact, a hybrid, which calls for different procedures.
>
> Most contemporary hybrids are built to resemble their conventional
> counterparts - a design philosophy the industry calls "mainstreaming." 
> Many
> can be identified only by a badge or a small logo; if that's damaged or
> hidden by debris or another vehicle, rescue crews may have no obvious clue
> that there's a high-voltage battery lurking in the wreckage.
>
> If the "hybrid" badge is missing from the door of its Silverado and Sierra
> trucks, Chevrolet details a four-step inspection process that crews should
> follow to determine whether they're dealing with a hybrid or a 
> conventional
> engine. Steps 3 and 4 require opening the hood, assuming the emergency
> workers can get to it.
>
> Saturn, meanwhile, suggests finding the vehicle identification number on 
> its
> Vue sport utility. "If the eighth digit is a five (5), this signifies the
> vehicle is a Hybrid," its responder guide says.
>
> Just how do you turn this thing off?
>
> Once crews know they're dealing with a hybrid, the next step is to make 
> sure
> it's turned off. All manufacturers say simply switching off the ignition 
> and
> removing the key is the best way to disable the system. But that's not
> foolproof.
>
> For example, even when the motors are disabled, "power remains in the high
> voltage electrical system for 5 minutes after the HV electrical system is
> shut off" in the Prius, Toyota says. On the Lexus GS450h, it can be as 
> long
> as 10 minutes.
>
> And those instructions assume that the key or the ignition system is
> accessible. If it isn't, the next option is to disable the standard 
> 12-volt
> battery, blocking power to the bigger, more dangerous battery.
>
> Different vehicles have different ways to do that, information that 
> rescuers
> must either know when they arrive at the scene of an accident or be able 
> to
> quickly retrieve.
>
> On Honda hybrids, crews are advised to remove the main fuse (they must 
> have
> a Phillips-head screwdriver handy) and cut both cables on the 12-volt
> battery.
>
> On Lexus' GS450h, however, they have to remove a yellow fuse in the engine
> junction compartment block. On the Lexus RX400h, it's a red fuse. But on 
> the
> Lexus LH600h L, they should remove the IG2 relay.
>
> Other hybrids call for non-intuitive steps that crews must take before 
> they
> can even try to disconnect the 12-volt battery. In the Nissan Altima, for
> instance, they first have to move the power seats and operate the power
> trunk release.
>
> 'You need to know these little things'
>
> If, in the worst case, emergency workers have to go near the big battery
> cables, they're generally in luck. Nearly all hybrids color-code their
> battery lines in orange, an easy visual clue. But in some Saturns, some of
> the cables are blue.
>
> The color isn't set by any law, meaning not only that there isn't 100
> percent consistency, but there's no guarantee that manufacturers planning 
> to
> enter the market will observe the unofficial orange standard.
>
> Complications like that mean emergency crews have to take extra time to
> assess an accident scene, even if injured victims need rescuing.
>
> "There's this tremendous amount of electrical energy," said Surrell, of
> Marquette General Hospital. "You need to know these little things about
> hybrids because of the potential electrical danger to the victim of the
> accident and the rescuer alike."
>
> Sidebar:
> How quiet is a hybrid?
> Researchers at the University of California-Riverside found last year that
> the margin of safety for blind pedestrians was 74 percent less when a 
> hybrid
> was approaching silently, compared to a vehicle with a conventional 
> engine.
> Subjects could correctly judge the approach of a conventional car when it
> was about 28 feet away, but they couldn't detect a hybrid until it was 7
> feet away - or about one second from running them over.
>
>
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