[Quietcars] Hybrid vehicles' silence seen as posing peril, MSNBC.com, June 8, 2009

[ckrugman at sbcglobal.net]

Thanks for posting your comment. I too, am a responsible traveler and have 
been for many years. I am a cane user and travel independently regularly 
across the country using local transportation as needed. As a pedestrian I 
observe and follow the same rules of the road that drivers do and have 
observed many of them doing very foolish things. I take the same pride in my 
mobility skills that a trucker would take in the number of miles driven 
without an accident. However, I have had a couple of close calls with quiet 
cars. Fortunately, the only result was a bent cane. However, I believe that 
manufacturers and designers need to be held responsible for adequate safety 
standards under all conditions. Making hybrid cars pedestrian friendly is 
not any different then requiring seat belts/shoulder harnesses, air bags or 
the ability to meet emission standards. Instead of worrying about the 
negative tone of these articles we need to form a coalition with these 
groups and make sure that the demands that protect the safety of the public 
as a whole including children, elderly and emergency response workers as a 
whole are met. We do not need to be selling out to manufacturers who are 
making exorbitant profits at our expense.
Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
1237 P Street
Fresno ca 93721
559-266-9237
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com>
To: "Discussion of new quiet cars and pedestrian safety" 
<quietcars at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 10:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Quietcars] Hybrid vehicles' silence seen as posing 
peril,MSNBC.com, June 8, 2009


> pull your head out of your butt, I've almost gotten hit by one of these 
> things.
> Or are you going to tell me that I just can't travel or something.
> Are you one of these people that think that if they have not seen 
> something them selves, then It doesnt exist?
> I know someone else like this, he thinks that because he has  a job, that 
> everyone else that can't find one are just being lazy.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "michael townsend" <mrtownsend at optonline.net>
> To: "'Discussion of new quiet cars and pedestrian safety'" 
> <quietcars at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 8:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [Quietcars] Hybrid vehicles' silence seen as posing peril, 
> MSNBC.com, June 8, 2009
>
>
>>I really think that what needs to be done here is that all writers have to
>> get on the same page.
>>
>> Most hybrid cars have badges denoting that they are hybrids.
>>
>> Blindness organizations have to understand that safety is a key issue 
>> here,
>> but that peole are working on testing, legislation, the type of 
>> arrangements
>> that will solve the issue, and we as a community have to become more
>> familiar with the vehicles.
>>
>> Several dog guide schools have these cars in their fleets in order to 
>> train
>> students and dogs to react to them.
>>
>> State agencies who offer cane travel should allow students to see a 
>> hybrid
>> up close so that they too can know what the hybrid is all about.
>>
>> Hard of hearing, the elderly, bicyclists, these emergency workers, etc., 
>> all
>> are effected.
>>
>> The term silent killer is way overblown, and I do not accept this.  It is
>> sensational journalism, a tool which has been used to slant the news and
>> evoke an emotional response as long as reporters have been writing 
>> stories.
>>
>>
>> The ACB and NFB have been working together to try and put forth 
>> legislation,
>> as have several of our concerned congress and senate representatives to 
>> find
>> a solution to this issue.  But, as a person first, and a person who 
>> happens
>> not to see, who travels with a dog, I'll tell you that I'm growing tired 
>> of
>> these articles written with the pity party in mind.  You may not like 
>> what I
>> have to say, but I am an advocate for the blind, for access and safety, 
>> and
>> I find this abhorrent and offensive that the tone continues to be, "look
>> what they're doing to us."
>>
>> I appreciate everyone's effort to try and work through the issues that
>> concern us regarding this, but news displays like this, in my very humble
>> opinion, don't do anything but drive a wedge between the auto 
>> manufacturers,
>> the public and we who need to be more proactive rather than reactive as 
>> this
>> article appears to revealing.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: quietcars-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:quietcars-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>> On
>> Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 7:19 PM
>> To: 'quietcars at nfbnet.org'
>> Subject: [Quietcars] Hybrid vehicles' silence seen as posing peril,
>> MSNBC.com, June 8, 2009
>>
>>
>> Link:
>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31112317/from/ET/
>>
>> Text:
>> Hybrid vehicles' silence seen as posing peril Emergency workers share
>> concern of advocates for blind over quiet motors By Alex Johnson Monday,
>> June 8, 2009
>>
>> As the car crept up to them, the students didn't react. It wasn't until 
>> it
>> was about to run them over that they even knew it was there. And that was
>> only because it hit their white canes.
>>
>> The hybrid car's electric motor had kicked in. And the students, all of 
>> whom
>> are blind, couldn't hear it.
>>
>> "It came up, and it was right there. We had no idea it was even coming,"
>> said Chad Wilburn, one of students, who took part in a demonstration of 
>> the
>> new hazard posed by the quiet hybrid vehicles earlier this year in Salt 
>> Lake
>> City by the Utah Center for the Blind.
>>
>> Advocates for the sight-impaired say the vroom of a conventional engine 
>> is
>> the only sure way a blind pedestrian can know that he or she may be 
>> walking
>> into the path of an approaching car. They have been pushing for safety
>> measures for several years, and Congress is considering a bill that would
>> order the Transportation Department to make sure hybrids and the coming
>> generation of all-electric vehicles make enough noise to be heard.
>>
>> But they're not the only ones worried about the silence. Emergency 
>> workers
>> are raising the alarm, too, saying it can be hard to tell whether a 
>> hybrid's
>> engine is still running at the scene of an accident.
>>
>> "If it's in gear, it can lurch forward and injure someone," said James
>> Surrell, a physician at Marquette General Hospital in Michigan, who 
>> teaches
>> hybrid safety classes for rescue workers and emergency medical 
>> technicians.
>>
>> Hybrids' electronic motors offer several other challenges for emergency
>> workers at the scene of an accident. The biggest is that they are 
>> electronic
>> motors.
>>
>> In addition to a standard 12-volt battery under the hood, a typical 
>> hybrid
>> engine uses another battery under the back seat that packs as many as 600
>> volts - more than enough to cause instantaneous death.
>>
>> There have been no documented reports of any emergency worker's having 
>> been
>> electrocuted by a hybrid battery in the United States. But in literature
>> they publish for emergency responders, nearly all manufacturers include
>> vivid warnings like this one in the first-response manual for the Nissan
>> Altima Hybrid: "Failure to disable the high voltage electrical system 
>> before
>> emergency response procedures are performed may result in serious injury 
>> or
>> death from electrical shock."
>>
>> First puzzle: Is it a hybrid?
>>
>> On the road, government safety tests indicate that hybrid vehicles are 
>> just
>> as safe as their gas-powered counterparts. Any concerns come from what to 
>> do
>> once one of them has been in an accident.
>>
>> The high-voltage batteries are thoroughly sealed in protective metal, and
>> there is little chance that they could leak or explode. In fact, hybrid
>> engines are packed with automatic sensors designed to stop the flow of
>> electricity on impact or whenever the side-impact air bags deploy.
>>
>> But that assumes the sensors themselves haven't been damaged.
>>
>> In its guide for emergency responders, Toyota, whose Prius popularized
>> hybrids in the United States, warns crews to "never assume the Prius is 
>> shut
>> off simply because it is silent."
>>
>> Emergency agencies across the nation have added specialized training for
>> workers responding to accident scenes involving hybrids, like a hybrid
>> safety seminar last month at the Lamar Institute of Technology in 
>> Beaumont,
>> Texas. That's because "we're worried about forced entry into a hybrid and
>> using the jaws of life," said Brad Pennison, a captain with the Beaumont
>> Fire Department.
>>
>> At these seminars, crews learn that the first difficulty is recognizing 
>> that
>> a vehicle is, in fact, a hybrid, which calls for different procedures.
>>
>> Most contemporary hybrids are built to resemble their conventional
>> counterparts - a design philosophy the industry calls "mainstreaming." 
>> Many
>> can be identified only by a badge or a small logo; if that's damaged or
>> hidden by debris or another vehicle, rescue crews may have no obvious 
>> clue
>> that there's a high-voltage battery lurking in the wreckage.
>>
>> If the "hybrid" badge is missing from the door of its Silverado and 
>> Sierra
>> trucks, Chevrolet details a four-step inspection process that crews 
>> should
>> follow to determine whether they're dealing with a hybrid or a 
>> conventional
>> engine. Steps 3 and 4 require opening the hood, assuming the emergency
>> workers can get to it.
>>
>> Saturn, meanwhile, suggests finding the vehicle identification number on 
>> its
>> Vue sport utility. "If the eighth digit is a five (5), this signifies the
>> vehicle is a Hybrid," its responder guide says.
>>
>> Just how do you turn this thing off?
>>
>> Once crews know they're dealing with a hybrid, the next step is to make 
>> sure
>> it's turned off. All manufacturers say simply switching off the ignition 
>> and
>> removing the key is the best way to disable the system. But that's not
>> foolproof.
>>
>> For example, even when the motors are disabled, "power remains in the 
>> high
>> voltage electrical system for 5 minutes after the HV electrical system is
>> shut off" in the Prius, Toyota says. On the Lexus GS450h, it can be as 
>> long
>> as 10 minutes.
>>
>> And those instructions assume that the key or the ignition system is
>> accessible. If it isn't, the next option is to disable the standard 
>> 12-volt
>> battery, blocking power to the bigger, more dangerous battery.
>>
>> Different vehicles have different ways to do that, information that 
>> rescuers
>> must either know when they arrive at the scene of an accident or be able 
>> to
>> quickly retrieve.
>>
>> On Honda hybrids, crews are advised to remove the main fuse (they must 
>> have
>> a Phillips-head screwdriver handy) and cut both cables on the 12-volt
>> battery.
>>
>> On Lexus' GS450h, however, they have to remove a yellow fuse in the 
>> engine
>> junction compartment block. On the Lexus RX400h, it's a red fuse. But on 
>> the
>> Lexus LH600h L, they should remove the IG2 relay.
>>
>> Other hybrids call for non-intuitive steps that crews must take before 
>> they
>> can even try to disconnect the 12-volt battery. In the Nissan Altima, for
>> instance, they first have to move the power seats and operate the power
>> trunk release.
>>
>> 'You need to know these little things'
>>
>> If, in the worst case, emergency workers have to go near the big battery
>> cables, they're generally in luck. Nearly all hybrids color-code their
>> battery lines in orange, an easy visual clue. But in some Saturns, some 
>> of
>> the cables are blue.
>>
>> The color isn't set by any law, meaning not only that there isn't 100
>> percent consistency, but there's no guarantee that manufacturers planning 
>> to
>> enter the market will observe the unofficial orange standard.
>>
>> Complications like that mean emergency crews have to take extra time to
>> assess an accident scene, even if injured victims need rescuing.
>>
>> "There's this tremendous amount of electrical energy," said Surrell, of
>> Marquette General Hospital. "You need to know these little things about
>> hybrids because of the potential electrical danger to the victim of the
>> accident and the rescuer alike."
>>
>> Sidebar:
>> How quiet is a hybrid?
>> Researchers at the University of California-Riverside found last year 
>> that
>> the margin of safety for blind pedestrians was 74 percent less when a 
>> hybrid
>> was approaching silently, compared to a vehicle with a conventional 
>> engine.
>> Subjects could correctly judge the approach of a conventional car when it
>> was about 28 feet away, but they couldn't detect a hybrid until it was 7
>> feet away - or about one second from running them over.
>>
>>
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