[Quietcars] Hybrid Versus Full electric power.

Sun Dec 19 04:00:33 UTC 2010

And, this does mean getting involved as individuals who travel either with
our guides or canes or with other folks.  It means that those who are
sighted have to contribute as well as do people who are deaf or hard or
hearing and those folks who use wheelchairs to travel about.  

This law benefits all, not just blind folks, as some people mistakenly are
reporting or thinking.  

And, to implement this law properly or to get it to the point where the
implementation of it means something, people are going to have to swallow
their prides and work with cane travelers, dog guide schools and service dog
institutes as well as others for whom they may not have the greatest
fondness, but we will have to respect one another in trying to form a union
which will bring the best and the brightest people together who know what
the hell they are talking about to get what we need done and make this a law
with some substance and not just something that they wrote for the poor
little blind people who are scared of the big, bad hybrid.  

Hybrid cars are here to bridge the gap between gasoline powered cars and
other forms of propulsion, whether it be hydrogen or full electric.  And, to
get to the point where all of this makes sense, prejudices and stereotypes
are going to have to be thrown our the window to find a common bond or
solution.  

Thanks, Deb, for your most cogent points.  

-----Original Message-----
From: quietcars-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:quietcars-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Deborah Kent Stein
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 10:08 PM
To: Discussion of new quiet cars and pedestrian safety
Subject: Re: [Quietcars] Hybrid Versus Full electric power.

Dear Mike,

You're totally correct that there are a lot of unknowns to be worked out
regarding how the Quiet Car will be implemented.  It will be very important
for representatives of the blind and pedestrian communities to work closely
with NHTSA over the next three years (the maximum period allocated for them
to determine a sound requirement) and have real input on what is done.  Some
studies have already been undertaken by NHTSA to determine what blind people
are able to hear and respond to in controlled outdoor conditions.  I expect
there will be further testing before any regulations are drawn up.  Now that
we have the law, we need to be sure it is implemented in a way that meets
our needs.

Debbie

----- Original Message -----
From: "michael townsend" <mrtownsend at optonline.net>
To: <quietcars at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 2:35 PM
Subject: [Quietcars] Hybrid Versus Full electric power.

>I am wondering what listers feel will be the end of this rainbow; hybrid v.
> full electric?
>
> I have spoken to a radio host of a car show in New York today and had
> expressed my concern with the passage of this quiet car bill, and he 
> agrees
> that everybody's got to have their due with this.  But, he feels that the
> electric vehicle will win out in the end.  I do as well, but there are
> certain things to be ironed out and a lot of room needs to be provided for
> discussion.
>
> I have several observations that I would like to share.  I am not an
> engineer or a developer, but a car enthusiast.
>
> I travel with a Seeing eye dog and don't much care for cane travel, though

> I
> am fairly accurate with one.
>
> I think that a guide dog provides a safety net, if you will, when it comes
> to working around hybrid or fully silent vehicles.  And that cannot be
> disputed, because guide dogs work on alerting to motion and speed.  And,
> with the discussion pertaining to silent vehicles or more quiet vehicles,
> most of the guide dog schools have a hybrid on the training venture, and
> this tool is and has been used successfully in one particular school, 
> Seeing
> eye, for nearly four years, and quite successfully has been used to train
> dogs and then the matched team with regard to this hybrid.
>
> I have long advocated that cane travel instructors, and blindness
> organizations get in step and work with their constituents concerning the
> quieter car, but I'm not sure that this has taken place, for their has 
> been
> little discussion on lists about this, that are not guide dog related, the
> NFB quietcar list being  one such list.
>
> So, with that in mind, setting the stage for discussion, I offer these
> points, if I may.
>
> First of all, the bill mandates that there is to be a sound that cannot be
> turned off by drivers, and as of yet, to my knowledge, that particular
> sounder has not been proposed to be used by all manufacturers across the
> board.
>
> Secondly, automobile manufacturers from all companies need to allow this
> sounder to be installed on their vehicles, even though there are 
> proprietary
> hardware and software issues that are going have to be ironed out.
>
> I believe that the bill does clearly state the decibel level at which 
> these
> sounders may operate, but have peole actually been in an environment to 
> see
> whether these are too loud or too soft or recognizable at all over traffic
> noise.  And, the particular sounder noise may determine whether this
> loudness or softness is recognizable at all.
>
> My last point here is that battery technology is not currently good enough
> to allow for full electric use, in that the Chevy Volt, for example, can
> only go 35 miles on a full charge, and then has to be supplemented by a 
> 1.4
> four cylinder gasoline engine which provides propulsion.  The car has to 
> be
> charged at an overnight port, and when fully drained the battery takes ten
> hours to charge at a 110 volt supply.  There are quicker charges available
> from either a 220 or a 440 volt charge, but this shortens 5the life of the
> very expensive battery pack, as will running the car down to its zero 
> charge
> point or having to bring the battery up to its 100 percent charge point.
> These batteries are supposed to last eight years, though none of these
> vehicles has been tested to equivalent numbers.
>
> Batters are expensive and will have to be better developed for both longer
> life and most cost effective implementation and installation in these
> vehicles to keep things real.  $5000 for a replacement of a battery pack, 
> in
> a Chevy volt, and a much higher cost in a european or exotic Japanese
> designed vehicle, sure isn't going to suit the average person's wallet or
> checkbook; but these batteries are supposed to last eight years, with a
> warranty.  None of them has thus far, per a discussion I had heard on
> another radio show that discusses cars.  Go to the Jay's Garage web site 
> and
> look at the discussion of the ford Escape hybrid for discussion of this
> point.
>
> The Nissan Leaf has a designed sounder that cannot be shut off, and it is
> fully electric and can go further on full electric than the Volt, but has 
> no
> gasoline engine to propel the car after the battery dies, and the Leaf 
> costs
> nearly ten grand less in its base form.
>
> The Volt has some sparse interior treatment and cheap plastics, according 
> to
> the auto writers, but it has been deemed the "car of the year" by a couple
> of magazines.
>
> Pricing for the Volt starts at 40 grand, minus a tax credit, versus the
> Leaf, which begins at a modest 32 grand, before tax credit.
>
> Though the passage of this silent car bill is a great thing, it's only t 
> he
> binning, because it was stated that it may take up to and over two years 
> to
> develop the sounder devices, do the testing and implement the results of 
> the
> studies.  But, let's keep involved and keep in touch with our particular
> organizations who've crafted, lobbied for and then support the bill so 
> that
> we don't have something implemented that we truly cannot use.
>
> Thanks.
> Mike T in NJ with Brent
>
>
>
> "I am accustomed to hearing malicious falsehoods about myself...but I 
> think
> I have
> a right to resent, to object to, libelous statements about my dog."
> -Franklin D. Roosevelt
> Mike Townsend and Seeing Eye dog Brent
> Dunellen, New Jersey  08812
> emails:  mrtownsend at optonline.net;
> michael.townsend54 at gmail.com
> Home Phone:  732  200-5643
> Cellular:  732  718-9480
>
>
>
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