[rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice, and DBS's policy concerning out of state services

Tue Apr 27 16:08:04 UTC 2010

Hi Everybody,

I was at the Wisconsin convention over the weekend and didn't see this until
today.  The instate preference, which is regulatory and not at all supported
by the Rehab Act, was not intended to be used as it is by this agency.  A
preference is just that, a preference, not a requirement.  They're treating
it as a requirement.  They are operating within the law if they tell you
they'd prefer you went to their center and require that you check it out
before making a final decision.  They would even be within the law if they
asked you to do the same with the Louisiana Center, although they should
help pay for your travel costs if they make it a requirement.  But after
being informed, if you choose to go to the Louisiana Center, then that
choice is yours, not theirs.  

The regulations allow them to pay the cost of training at the Lighthouse if
it is lower, assuming the Louisiana Center will agree to take it.  However,
there are lots of ways to get around that.  Are the two programs equivalent?
Does the Lighthouse provide training seven days a week and 24 hours a day?
Does it have supervised student apartments where you can learn to manage a
place of your own and practice the skills you are learning in class?  Does
it offer ten hours a week of mobility instruction, five hours a week of
computers, five hours of Braille, ten hours of home management, etc.? (Check
with the Louisiana Center to make sure these figures are correct.) Does it
offer job seeking skills training, career exploration and planning, and
assistance in finding employment?  If not, the two programs are not
equivalent, and there is no justification for paying the same amount for
both. 

Pam Allen can provide you with the Louisiana Center information, and
somebody at the Lighthouse should be able to provide you with their
equivalents. Just collect the information, compare it, and submit a written
request justifying your decision and asking to attend the center of your
choice.  But you need to apply for services with your state agency and be
determined eligible first.  If you aren't a client of theirs, they have no
obligation to make any kind of commitment to you.

Dick

-----Original Message-----
From: rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of angel238 at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 3:57 AM
To: Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List
Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice,and DBS's
policy concerning out of state services

I was told that same thing 41 years ago.  My mobility instructor never
completed the course of training for me because I wasn't able, according to
him, to walk a straight line.  He encouraged me to get a guide dog.  I say,
if it happened then, it could well happen to day.
----- Original Message -----
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
To: "Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List" <rehab at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice,and DBS's
policy concerning out of state services

> Won, As a mobility instructor, Have you ever heard of a person being 
> denied mobility training do to some one's balance? Or have you ever 
> heard of a person being told that mobility was being discontinued 
> because they were unable to walk in a straight line? I have mild 
> cerebal paulsy, and I was told these things. But my mobility teacher 
> from high school said that what I was told was a bunch of hogwash! RJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Haro, Juan, CFB" <Juan.Haro at state.nm.us>
> To: "Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List" <rehab at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 11:49 AM
> Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice,and 
> DBS's policy concerning out of state services
>
>
> Hello RJ:
>
> NBPCB stands for National Blindness Professional Certification Board.  
> The web site is nbpcb.org.  The only centers that are certified are 
> the three NFB centers Louisiana, Colorado, and BLIND Inc.; and three 
> state agencies New Mexico, Nebraska, and Hawaii.  The certification 
> indicates that the training you receive from these training centers 
> follow a non-visual approach with high expectations.
>
> Juan F. Haro, M.A., NOMCT
> Cane Travel Instructor
> Commission for the Blind
> 408 N. White Sands Blvd.
> Alamogordo, NM 88310
> Phone: (575) 437-0401
> Email: juan.haro at state.nm.us
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
> Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 8:51 AM
> To: Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice,and 
> DBS's policy concerning out of state services
>
> What is Nbpcb? RJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lansaw,Jane (DARS)" <Jane.Lansaw at dars.state.tx.us>
> To: "Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List" <rehab at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 8:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice, and 
> DBS's policy concerning out of state services
>
>
>> Hi RJ,
>> I wonder if you can use LCB's NBPCB certification as a justification.  
>> I assume the Lighthouse isn't certified by NBPCB.  Dave can probably 
>> answer this question or maybe Dick Davis if he's watching.  Also, RJ, 
>> if you have any vision at all, even light perception you can cite 
>> LCB's complete non-visual training as a method you respect and feel 
>> you need to be fully employment-ready.
>>
>> I got my home state to send me to Colorado even though I had already 
>> been through Lion's World several years previously.
>>
>> Good Luck,
>>
>> Jane
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf Of David Andrews
>> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 9:59 PM
>> To: Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice, and 
>> DBS's policy concerning out of state services
>>
>> If they reopen your case, then you will end up with an employment 
>> goal, and a plan to reach that goal.  You will have to show how LCB 
>> will help you attain that goal, and why those resources available to 
>> you in Florida will not do so.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 07:01 PM 4/24/2010, you wrote:
>>>Dear List, I'm thinking about re-opening my case with DBS, and I 
>>>recieved this email from them, but I do not wish to recieve my 
>>>ajustment to blindness training through the lighthouse. I wish to go 
>>>to LCB. How can I justify this? RJ
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: Howard-Davis, Bobbie
>>>To: RJ Sandefur
>>>Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 11:51 AM
>>>Subject: RE: questions concerning informed choice, and DBS's policy 
>>>concerning out of state services
>>>
>>>
>>>Mr. Sandefur, please accept my condolence to you on the lost of your 
>>>mother.
>>>
>>>If you need some adjustment to blindness training at this time, we 
>>>can reopen your file and refer you the Lighthouse for the Blind of 
>>>the Palm Beaches at this time for training.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I am also attaching a copy the Division's policy on Informed Choice 
>>>to help you in making your decision about training.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I know you are aware of the DBS policy on Out-State-Services, because 
>>>you attached it to your e-mail.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>In order to assist you with training services, please call our office 
>>>and ask to have your case reopen for services at 561-681-2448 or 
>>>866-225-0794.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Bobbie Howard-Davis
>>>
>>>District Administrator
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>-----------
>>>From: RJ Sandefur [mailto:joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com]
>>>Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:09 AM
>>>To: Howard-Davis, Bobbie
>>>Subject: questions concerning informed choice, and DBS's policy 
>>>concerning out of state services
>>>
>>>
>>>Dear Mrs. Davis, My name is Robert Sandefur, I have some questions 
>>>for you concerning my right to informed choice, and the DBS policy 
>>>concerning out of state services. In 1999, I attended the 
>>>rehabilitation center, which is now the orientation and adjustment 
>>>center, and did not find the experience to be a pleasant one. In 
>>>2004, I closed my case with DBS, due to a disagreement with my 
>>>councilor at the time. However, due to having recently lost my 
>>>mother, and other factors, I believe I am in need of some adjustment 
>>>to blindness training, and this training should be conducted at the 
>>>Louisiana center for the blind. (LCB) I was looking at the DBS web 
>>>sight and came across the policy concerning out of state services:
>>>Out of State Services
>>>DIVISION POLICY 6.14
>>>
>>>SUBJECT
>>>Out of State Services
>>>
>>>EFFECTIVE DATE
>>>July 9, 2003
>>>
>>>REVISION DATE
>>>February 14, 2008
>>>
>>>EXPIRATION DATE
>>>This policy will be reviewed annually and updated as needed.
>>>
>>>PURPOSE
>>>
>>>To provide guidelines for the provision of out-of-state services.
>>>
>>>AUTHORITY
>>>34 CFR 361.50(b)
>>>
>>>POLICY
>>>The Florida Division of Blind Services has established a preference 
>>>for in-State services, provided that the preference does not 
>>>effectively deny an individual a necessary service. If the individual 
>>>chooses an out-of-State service at a higher cost than an in-State 
>>>service, and either service would meet the individual's 
>>>rehabilitation needs, the designated State unit is not responsible 
>>>for those costs in excess of the cost of the in-State service.
>>>However, if the out-of-state services provides a unique service to 
>>>meet the individual's rehabilitation plan, the Bureau Chief should be 
>>>contacted to approve or disapproval such a service.
>>>
>>>Original signed by Michael Elliott, Bureau Chief, February 14, 2008 
>>>But compare this with a directive from RSA. policy as stated in 2001 
>>>in RSA PD-01-03:
>>>
>>>
>>>       POLICY STATEMENT:  The State VR program must provide 
>>>applicants and individuals eligible for VR services with 
>>>opportunities to exercise informed choice throughout the VR process, 
>>>including making decisions about the employment goal, VR services, 
>>>service providers, settings for employment and service provision, and 
>>>methods for procuring services.  To enable an individual to make such 
>>>decisions, the State VR agency must provide information, support and 
>>>assistance needed by the individual.  The VR agency has the 
>>>responsibility to implement policies, procedures, and practices, and 
>>>to develop resources that enable applicants and individuals eligible 
>>>for VR services to exercise informed choice throughout the entire VR 
>>>process; these policies, procedures, and practices must be consistent 
>>>with Federal statutory and regulatory requirements. Mrs. Davis, Does 
>>>this mean, that DBS can tell me, "RJ, we're denying your request to 
>>>attend LCB, due to causts?" I do realize I'd have to open a new case 
>>>with DBS, since the previous one was closed in 2004. For your 
>>>convience, I've attached a document explaining what LCB is, although 
>>>I'm shure you know who they are. Mrs. Davis, This is only an inquiry, 
>>>and I wish to get my facts so that I'll be able to have enough 
>>>information in order to make an informed choice as to where to go 
>>>from here. I did study with a Seminary, and obtain my master of 
>>>theology, in 2006, and I was licensed by my church to preach in 2005. 
>>>It was tough loosing Mom, and I know, she'd want me to continue doing 
>>>what I believe the Lord has called me to do. However, How am I going 
>>>to be an effective minister, if I don't have the blindness training, 
>>>needed to sirvive? Another concern I have, is I have learned some 
>>>ministers start out as by-vocational. In 2004, until now, I didn't 
>>>see that aspect of it. I have a batchors degree in criminal justice. 
>>>Another not so wise disision on my part. Mrs.
>>>Davis, I look forward to your answer. Sencerly, Robert Sandefur
>>
>>
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>
>
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