[rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice, and DBS's policy concerning out of state services

Tue Apr 27 18:52:02 UTC 2010

Thanks for the help dick. RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dick Davis" <ddavis at blindinc.org>
To: <angel238 at sbcglobal.net>; "'Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List'" 
<rehab at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice,and DBS's 
policy concerning out of state services


> Hi Everybody,
>
> I was at the Wisconsin convention over the weekend and didn't see this 
> until
> today.  The instate preference, which is regulatory and not at all 
> supported
> by the Rehab Act, was not intended to be used as it is by this agency.  A
> preference is just that, a preference, not a requirement.  They're 
> treating
> it as a requirement.  They are operating within the law if they tell you
> they'd prefer you went to their center and require that you check it out
> before making a final decision.  They would even be within the law if they
> asked you to do the same with the Louisiana Center, although they should
> help pay for your travel costs if they make it a requirement.  But after
> being informed, if you choose to go to the Louisiana Center, then that
> choice is yours, not theirs.
>
> The regulations allow them to pay the cost of training at the Lighthouse 
> if
> it is lower, assuming the Louisiana Center will agree to take it. 
> However,
> there are lots of ways to get around that.  Are the two programs 
> equivalent?
> Does the Lighthouse provide training seven days a week and 24 hours a day?
> Does it have supervised student apartments where you can learn to manage a
> place of your own and practice the skills you are learning in class?  Does
> it offer ten hours a week of mobility instruction, five hours a week of
> computers, five hours of Braille, ten hours of home management, etc.? 
> (Check
> with the Louisiana Center to make sure these figures are correct.) Does it
> offer job seeking skills training, career exploration and planning, and
> assistance in finding employment?  If not, the two programs are not
> equivalent, and there is no justification for paying the same amount for
> both.
>
> Pam Allen can provide you with the Louisiana Center information, and
> somebody at the Lighthouse should be able to provide you with their
> equivalents. Just collect the information, compare it, and submit a 
> written
> request justifying your decision and asking to attend the center of your
> choice.  But you need to apply for services with your state agency and be
> determined eligible first.  If you aren't a client of theirs, they have no
> obligation to make any kind of commitment to you.
>
> Dick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of angel238 at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 3:57 AM
> To: Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice,and DBS's
> policy concerning out of state services
>
> I was told that same thing 41 years ago.  My mobility instructor never
> completed the course of training for me because I wasn't able, according 
> to
> him, to walk a straight line.  He encouraged me to get a guide dog.  I 
> say,
> if it happened then, it could well happen to day.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
> To: "Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List" <rehab at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 12:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice,and DBS's
> policy concerning out of state services
>
>
>> Won, As a mobility instructor, Have you ever heard of a person being
>> denied mobility training do to some one's balance? Or have you ever
>> heard of a person being told that mobility was being discontinued
>> because they were unable to walk in a straight line? I have mild
>> cerebal paulsy, and I was told these things. But my mobility teacher
>> from high school said that what I was told was a bunch of hogwash! RJ
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Haro, Juan, CFB" <Juan.Haro at state.nm.us>
>> To: "Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List" <rehab at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 11:49 AM
>> Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice,and
>> DBS's policy concerning out of state services
>>
>>
>> Hello RJ:
>>
>> NBPCB stands for National Blindness Professional Certification Board.
>> The web site is nbpcb.org.  The only centers that are certified are
>> the three NFB centers Louisiana, Colorado, and BLIND Inc.; and three
>> state agencies New Mexico, Nebraska, and Hawaii.  The certification
>> indicates that the training you receive from these training centers
>> follow a non-visual approach with high expectations.
>>
>> Juan F. Haro, M.A., NOMCT
>> Cane Travel Instructor
>> Commission for the Blind
>> 408 N. White Sands Blvd.
>> Alamogordo, NM 88310
>> Phone: (575) 437-0401
>> Email: juan.haro at state.nm.us
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
>> Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 8:51 AM
>> To: Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice,and
>> DBS's policy concerning out of state services
>>
>> What is Nbpcb? RJ
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Lansaw,Jane (DARS)" <Jane.Lansaw at dars.state.tx.us>
>> To: "Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List" <rehab at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 8:27 AM
>> Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice, and
>> DBS's policy concerning out of state services
>>
>>
>>> Hi RJ,
>>> I wonder if you can use LCB's NBPCB certification as a justification.
>>> I assume the Lighthouse isn't certified by NBPCB.  Dave can probably
>>> answer this question or maybe Dick Davis if he's watching.  Also, RJ,
>>> if you have any vision at all, even light perception you can cite
>>> LCB's complete non-visual training as a method you respect and feel
>>> you need to be fully employment-ready.
>>>
>>> I got my home state to send me to Colorado even though I had already
>>> been through Lion's World several years previously.
>>>
>>> Good Luck,
>>>
>>> Jane
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of David Andrews
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 9:59 PM
>>> To: Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice, and
>>> DBS's policy concerning out of state services
>>>
>>> If they reopen your case, then you will end up with an employment
>>> goal, and a plan to reach that goal.  You will have to show how LCB
>>> will help you attain that goal, and why those resources available to
>>> you in Florida will not do so.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> At 07:01 PM 4/24/2010, you wrote:
>>>>Dear List, I'm thinking about re-opening my case with DBS, and I
>>>>recieved this email from them, but I do not wish to recieve my
>>>>ajustment to blindness training through the lighthouse. I wish to go
>>>>to LCB. How can I justify this? RJ
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: Howard-Davis, Bobbie
>>>>To: RJ Sandefur
>>>>Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 11:51 AM
>>>>Subject: RE: questions concerning informed choice, and DBS's policy
>>>>concerning out of state services
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Mr. Sandefur, please accept my condolence to you on the lost of your
>>>>mother.
>>>>
>>>>If you need some adjustment to blindness training at this time, we
>>>>can reopen your file and refer you the Lighthouse for the Blind of
>>>>the Palm Beaches at this time for training.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I am also attaching a copy the Division's policy on Informed Choice
>>>>to help you in making your decision about training.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I know you are aware of the DBS policy on Out-State-Services, because
>>>>you attached it to your e-mail.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>In order to assist you with training services, please call our office
>>>>and ask to have your case reopen for services at 561-681-2448 or
>>>>866-225-0794.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Bobbie Howard-Davis
>>>>
>>>>District Administrator
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>-----------
>>>>From: RJ Sandefur [mailto:joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com]
>>>>Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:09 AM
>>>>To: Howard-Davis, Bobbie
>>>>Subject: questions concerning informed choice, and DBS's policy
>>>>concerning out of state services
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Dear Mrs. Davis, My name is Robert Sandefur, I have some questions
>>>>for you concerning my right to informed choice, and the DBS policy
>>>>concerning out of state services. In 1999, I attended the
>>>>rehabilitation center, which is now the orientation and adjustment
>>>>center, and did not find the experience to be a pleasant one. In
>>>>2004, I closed my case with DBS, due to a disagreement with my
>>>>councilor at the time. However, due to having recently lost my
>>>>mother, and other factors, I believe I am in need of some adjustment
>>>>to blindness training, and this training should be conducted at the
>>>>Louisiana center for the blind. (LCB) I was looking at the DBS web
>>>>sight and came across the policy concerning out of state services:
>>>>Out of State Services
>>>>DIVISION POLICY 6.14
>>>>
>>>>SUBJECT
>>>>Out of State Services
>>>>
>>>>EFFECTIVE DATE
>>>>July 9, 2003
>>>>
>>>>REVISION DATE
>>>>February 14, 2008
>>>>
>>>>EXPIRATION DATE
>>>>This policy will be reviewed annually and updated as needed.
>>>>
>>>>PURPOSE
>>>>
>>>>To provide guidelines for the provision of out-of-state services.
>>>>
>>>>AUTHORITY
>>>>34 CFR 361.50(b)
>>>>
>>>>POLICY
>>>>The Florida Division of Blind Services has established a preference
>>>>for in-State services, provided that the preference does not
>>>>effectively deny an individual a necessary service. If the individual
>>>>chooses an out-of-State service at a higher cost than an in-State
>>>>service, and either service would meet the individual's
>>>>rehabilitation needs, the designated State unit is not responsible
>>>>for those costs in excess of the cost of the in-State service.
>>>>However, if the out-of-state services provides a unique service to
>>>>meet the individual's rehabilitation plan, the Bureau Chief should be
>>>>contacted to approve or disapproval such a service.
>>>>
>>>>Original signed by Michael Elliott, Bureau Chief, February 14, 2008
>>>>But compare this with a directive from RSA. policy as stated in 2001
>>>>in RSA PD-01-03:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>       POLICY STATEMENT:  The State VR program must provide
>>>>applicants and individuals eligible for VR services with
>>>>opportunities to exercise informed choice throughout the VR process,
>>>>including making decisions about the employment goal, VR services,
>>>>service providers, settings for employment and service provision, and
>>>>methods for procuring services.  To enable an individual to make such
>>>>decisions, the State VR agency must provide information, support and
>>>>assistance needed by the individual.  The VR agency has the
>>>>responsibility to implement policies, procedures, and practices, and
>>>>to develop resources that enable applicants and individuals eligible
>>>>for VR services to exercise informed choice throughout the entire VR
>>>>process; these policies, procedures, and practices must be consistent
>>>>with Federal statutory and regulatory requirements. Mrs. Davis, Does
>>>>this mean, that DBS can tell me, "RJ, we're denying your request to
>>>>attend LCB, due to causts?" I do realize I'd have to open a new case
>>>>with DBS, since the previous one was closed in 2004. For your
>>>>convience, I've attached a document explaining what LCB is, although
>>>>I'm shure you know who they are. Mrs. Davis, This is only an inquiry,
>>>>and I wish to get my facts so that I'll be able to have enough
>>>>information in order to make an informed choice as to where to go
>>>>from here. I did study with a Seminary, and obtain my master of
>>>>theology, in 2006, and I was licensed by my church to preach in 2005.
>>>>It was tough loosing Mom, and I know, she'd want me to continue doing
>>>>what I believe the Lord has called me to do. However, How am I going
>>>>to be an effective minister, if I don't have the blindness training,
>>>>needed to sirvive? Another concern I have, is I have learned some
>>>>ministers start out as by-vocational. In 2004, until now, I didn't
>>>>see that aspect of it. I have a batchors degree in criminal justice.
>>>>Another not so wise disision on my part. Mrs.
>>>>Davis, I look forward to your answer. Sencerly, Robert Sandefur
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> rehab mailing list
>>> rehab at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/rehab_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> rehab:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/rehab_nfbnet.org/jane.lansaw%40
>>> dars.state.tx.us
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> rehab mailing list
>>> rehab at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/rehab_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> rehab:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/rehab_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksan
>>> defur%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> rehab mailing list
>> rehab at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/rehab_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> rehab:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/rehab_nfbnet.org/juan.haro%40sta
>> te.nm.us
>>
>>
>> Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including all attachments is for
>> the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential
>> and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure
>> or distribution is prohibited unless specifically provided under the
>> New Mexico Inspection of Public Records Act. If you are not the
>> intended recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies
>> of this message. -- This email has been scanned by the Sybari -
>> Antigen Email System.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> rehab mailing list
>> rehab at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/rehab_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> rehab:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/rehab_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksand
>> efur%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> rehab mailing list
>> rehab at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/rehab_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> rehab:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/rehab_nfbnet.org/angel238%40sbcg
>> lobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> rehab mailing list
> rehab at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/rehab_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> rehab:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/rehab_nfbnet.org/ddavis%40blindinc.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> rehab mailing list
> rehab at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/rehab_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> rehab:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/rehab_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com