[rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice, and DBS's policy concerning out of state services

Tue Apr 27 22:40:43 UTC 2010

Dick, are you a councilor? or a Lawyer? You're shure teaching me allot! 
Thanks for the info! RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dick Davis" <ddavis at blindinc.org>
To: "'Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List'" <rehab at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "'Pamela Allen'" <pallen at lcb-ruston.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice,and DBS's 
policy concerning out of state services


>
> RJ,
>
> One thing I left out is that you can write your own IPE (individualized 
> plan
> for employment) as long as you do it on agency forms.  You can get whoever
> you want to assist you, not just your counselor.  Make sure you are
> determined eligible for services first.  After completing it, sign it and
> send it to your counselor with a cover letter asking him or her to approve
> and sign it within a specified time frame, say two weeks.  Make sure to 
> send
> it by registered mail or hand deliver it and get a receipt.  That way they
> can't say it never arrived.
>
> They have to respond.  They can either approve your IPE, refuse to approve
> it, or contact you and try to make changes in it.  They can't just file it
> away and ignore it.  If they do not respond within your specified time
> frame, write them a more strongly worded letter.  If they still don't
> respond, file an appeal, using as your reason that they failed to respond
> after two attempts on your part.  Ask for mediation or a full evidentiary
> hearing; don't accept an administrative review instead because
> administrative reviews are not an appeal resolution method under federal
> law.  Agencies like to use them to kill time, and often they're done by 
> the
> supervisor who helped make the decision in the first place.
>
> If you file an appeal, they have 60 days to resolve it, so the time 
> pressure
> will be on them. If you try mediation (which must be done by an 
> independent
> mediator with no connection with the agency) and it doesn't work out, you
> can go right to the full evidentiary hearing (before a state 
> administrative
> law judge who also has no connection with the agency).  They have to hold
> the hearing and give you a written ruling within the original 60 day time
> period unless you grant them an extension in writing.  I wouldn't grant 
> them
> one unless there is a very good reason.
>
> Once you initiate an appeal, don't let them talk you out of it; if you 
> back
> down, they'll treat you any way they please. It's kind of a hardball
> approach, but it works well, does wonders for your self-esteem, and 
> teaches
> them not to mess with you in the future.
>
> Dick Davis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of RJ Sandefur
> Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 1:52 PM
> To: Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice,and DBS's
> policy concerning out of state services
>
> Thanks for the help dick. RJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dick Davis" <ddavis at blindinc.org>
> To: <angel238 at sbcglobal.net>; "'Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List'"
> <rehab at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 12:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice,and DBS's
> policy concerning out of state services
>
>
>> Hi Everybody,
>>
>> I was at the Wisconsin convention over the weekend and didn't see this
>> until today.  The instate preference, which is regulatory and not at
>> all supported by the Rehab Act, was not intended to be used as it is
>> by this agency.  A preference is just that, a preference, not a
>> requirement.  They're treating it as a requirement.  They are
>> operating within the law if they tell you they'd prefer you went to
>> their center and require that you check it out before making a final
>> decision.  They would even be within the law if they asked you to do
>> the same with the Louisiana Center, although they should help pay for
>> your travel costs if they make it a requirement.  But after being
>> informed, if you choose to go to the Louisiana Center, then that
>> choice is yours, not theirs.
>>
>> The regulations allow them to pay the cost of training at the
>> Lighthouse if it is lower, assuming the Louisiana Center will agree to
>> take it.
>> However,
>> there are lots of ways to get around that.  Are the two programs
>> equivalent?
>> Does the Lighthouse provide training seven days a week and 24 hours a 
>> day?
>> Does it have supervised student apartments where you can learn to
>> manage a place of your own and practice the skills you are learning in
>> class?  Does it offer ten hours a week of mobility instruction, five
>> hours a week of computers, five hours of Braille, ten hours of home
> management, etc.?
>> (Check
>> with the Louisiana Center to make sure these figures are correct.)
>> Does it offer job seeking skills training, career exploration and
>> planning, and assistance in finding employment?  If not, the two
>> programs are not equivalent, and there is no justification for paying
>> the same amount for both.
>>
>> Pam Allen can provide you with the Louisiana Center information, and
>> somebody at the Lighthouse should be able to provide you with their
>> equivalents. Just collect the information, compare it, and submit a
>> written request justifying your decision and asking to attend the
>> center of your choice.  But you need to apply for services with your
>> state agency and be determined eligible first.  If you aren't a client
>> of theirs, they have no obligation to make any kind of commitment to
>> you.
>>
>> Dick
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of angel238 at sbcglobal.net
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 3:57 AM
>> To: Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice,and
>> DBS's policy concerning out of state services
>>
>> I was told that same thing 41 years ago.  My mobility instructor never
>> completed the course of training for me because I wasn't able,
>> according to him, to walk a straight line.  He encouraged me to get a
>> guide dog.  I say, if it happened then, it could well happen to day.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>> To: "Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List" <rehab at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 12:52 PM
>> Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice,and
>> DBS's policy concerning out of state services
>>
>>
>>> Won, As a mobility instructor, Have you ever heard of a person being
>>> denied mobility training do to some one's balance? Or have you ever
>>> heard of a person being told that mobility was being discontinued
>>> because they were unable to walk in a straight line? I have mild
>>> cerebal paulsy, and I was told these things. But my mobility teacher
>>> from high school said that what I was told was a bunch of hogwash! RJ
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Haro, Juan, CFB" <Juan.Haro at state.nm.us>
>>> To: "Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List" <rehab at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 11:49 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice,and
>>> DBS's policy concerning out of state services
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello RJ:
>>>
>>> NBPCB stands for National Blindness Professional Certification Board.
>>> The web site is nbpcb.org.  The only centers that are certified are
>>> the three NFB centers Louisiana, Colorado, and BLIND Inc.; and three
>>> state agencies New Mexico, Nebraska, and Hawaii.  The certification
>>> indicates that the training you receive from these training centers
>>> follow a non-visual approach with high expectations.
>>>
>>> Juan F. Haro, M.A., NOMCT
>>> Cane Travel Instructor
>>> Commission for the Blind
>>> 408 N. White Sands Blvd.
>>> Alamogordo, NM 88310
>>> Phone: (575) 437-0401
>>> Email: juan.haro at state.nm.us
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
>>> Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 8:51 AM
>>> To: Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice,and
>>> DBS's policy concerning out of state services
>>>
>>> What is Nbpcb? RJ
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Lansaw,Jane (DARS)" <Jane.Lansaw at dars.state.tx.us>
>>> To: "Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List" <rehab at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 8:27 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice, and
>>> DBS's policy concerning out of state services
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi RJ,
>>>> I wonder if you can use LCB's NBPCB certification as a justification.
>>>> I assume the Lighthouse isn't certified by NBPCB.  Dave can probably
>>>> answer this question or maybe Dick Davis if he's watching.  Also, RJ,
>>>> if you have any vision at all, even light perception you can cite
>>>> LCB's complete non-visual training as a method you respect and feel
>>>> you need to be fully employment-ready.
>>>>
>>>> I got my home state to send me to Colorado even though I had already
>>>> been through Lion's World several years previously.
>>>>
>>>> Good Luck,
>>>>
>>>> Jane
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of David Andrews
>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 9:59 PM
>>>> To: Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice, and
>>>> DBS's policy concerning out of state services
>>>>
>>>> If they reopen your case, then you will end up with an employment
>>>> goal, and a plan to reach that goal.  You will have to show how LCB
>>>> will help you attain that goal, and why those resources available to
>>>> you in Florida will not do so.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> At 07:01 PM 4/24/2010, you wrote:
>>>>>Dear List, I'm thinking about re-opening my case with DBS, and I
>>>>>recieved this email from them, but I do not wish to recieve my
>>>>>ajustment to blindness training through the lighthouse. I wish to go
>>>>>to LCB. How can I justify this? RJ
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: Howard-Davis, Bobbie
>>>>>To: RJ Sandefur
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 11:51 AM
>>>>>Subject: RE: questions concerning informed choice, and DBS's policy
>>>>>concerning out of state services
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Mr. Sandefur, please accept my condolence to you on the lost of your
>>>>>mother.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you need some adjustment to blindness training at this time, we
>>>>>can reopen your file and refer you the Lighthouse for the Blind of
>>>>>the Palm Beaches at this time for training.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I am also attaching a copy the Division's policy on Informed Choice
>>>>>to help you in making your decision about training.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I know you are aware of the DBS policy on Out-State-Services, because
>>>>>you attached it to your e-mail.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>In order to assist you with training services, please call our office
>>>>>and ask to have your case reopen for services at 561-681-2448 or
>>>>>866-225-0794.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Bobbie Howard-Davis
>>>>>
>>>>>District Administrator
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>-----------
>>>>>From: RJ Sandefur [mailto:joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com]
>>>>>Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:09 AM
>>>>>To: Howard-Davis, Bobbie
>>>>>Subject: questions concerning informed choice, and DBS's policy
>>>>>concerning out of state services
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Dear Mrs. Davis, My name is Robert Sandefur, I have some questions
>>>>>for you concerning my right to informed choice, and the DBS policy
>>>>>concerning out of state services. In 1999, I attended the
>>>>>rehabilitation center, which is now the orientation and adjustment
>>>>>center, and did not find the experience to be a pleasant one. In
>>>>>2004, I closed my case with DBS, due to a disagreement with my
>>>>>councilor at the time. However, due to having recently lost my
>>>>>mother, and other factors, I believe I am in need of some adjustment
>>>>>to blindness training, and this training should be conducted at the
>>>>>Louisiana center for the blind. (LCB) I was looking at the DBS web
>>>>>sight and came across the policy concerning out of state services:
>>>>>Out of State Services
>>>>>DIVISION POLICY 6.14
>>>>>
>>>>>SUBJECT
>>>>>Out of State Services
>>>>>
>>>>>EFFECTIVE DATE
>>>>>July 9, 2003
>>>>>
>>>>>REVISION DATE
>>>>>February 14, 2008
>>>>>
>>>>>EXPIRATION DATE
>>>>>This policy will be reviewed annually and updated as needed.
>>>>>
>>>>>PURPOSE
>>>>>
>>>>>To provide guidelines for the provision of out-of-state services.
>>>>>
>>>>>AUTHORITY
>>>>>34 CFR 361.50(b)
>>>>>
>>>>>POLICY
>>>>>The Florida Division of Blind Services has established a preference
>>>>>for in-State services, provided that the preference does not
>>>>>effectively deny an individual a necessary service. If the individual
>>>>>chooses an out-of-State service at a higher cost than an in-State
>>>>>service, and either service would meet the individual's
>>>>>rehabilitation needs, the designated State unit is not responsible
>>>>>for those costs in excess of the cost of the in-State service.
>>>>>However, if the out-of-state services provides a unique service to
>>>>>meet the individual's rehabilitation plan, the Bureau Chief should be
>>>>>contacted to approve or disapproval such a service.
>>>>>
>>>>>Original signed by Michael Elliott, Bureau Chief, February 14, 2008
>>>>>But compare this with a directive from RSA. policy as stated in 2001
>>>>>in RSA PD-01-03:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>       POLICY STATEMENT:  The State VR program must provide
>>>>>applicants and individuals eligible for VR services with
>>>>>opportunities to exercise informed choice throughout the VR process,
>>>>>including making decisions about the employment goal, VR services,
>>>>>service providers, settings for employment and service provision, and
>>>>>methods for procuring services.  To enable an individual to make such
>>>>>decisions, the State VR agency must provide information, support and
>>>>>assistance needed by the individual.  The VR agency has the
>>>>>responsibility to implement policies, procedures, and practices, and
>>>>>to develop resources that enable applicants and individuals eligible
>>>>>for VR services to exercise informed choice throughout the entire VR
>>>>>process; these policies, procedures, and practices must be consistent
>>>>>with Federal statutory and regulatory requirements. Mrs. Davis, Does
>>>>>this mean, that DBS can tell me, "RJ, we're denying your request to
>>>>>attend LCB, due to causts?" I do realize I'd have to open a new case
>>>>>with DBS, since the previous one was closed in 2004. For your
>>>>>convience, I've attached a document explaining what LCB is, although
>>>>>I'm shure you know who they are. Mrs. Davis, This is only an inquiry,
>>>>>and I wish to get my facts so that I'll be able to have enough
>>>>>information in order to make an informed choice as to where to go
>>>>>from here. I did study with a Seminary, and obtain my master of
>>>>>theology, in 2006, and I was licensed by my church to preach in 2005.
>>>>>It was tough loosing Mom, and I know, she'd want me to continue doing
>>>>>what I believe the Lord has called me to do. However, How am I going
>>>>>to be an effective minister, if I don't have the blindness training,
>>>>>needed to sirvive? Another concern I have, is I have learned some
>>>>>ministers start out as by-vocational. In 2004, until now, I didn't
>>>>>see that aspect of it. I have a batchors degree in criminal justice.
>>>>>Another not so wise disision on my part. Mrs.
>>>>>Davis, I look forward to your answer. Sencerly, Robert Sandefur
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> rehab mailing list
>>>> rehab at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/rehab_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> rehab:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/rehab_nfbnet.org/jane.lansaw%40
>>>> dars.state.tx.us
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> rehab mailing list
>>>> rehab at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/rehab_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> rehab:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/rehab_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksan
>>>> defur%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> rehab mailing list
>>> rehab at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/rehab_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> rehab:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/rehab_nfbnet.org/juan.haro%40sta
>>> te.nm.us
>>>
>>>
>>> Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including all attachments is for
>>> the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential
>>> and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure
>>> or distribution is prohibited unless specifically provided under the
>>> New Mexico Inspection of Public Records Act. If you are not the
>>> intended recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies
>>> of this message. -- This email has been scanned by the Sybari -
>>> Antigen Email System.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> rehab mailing list
>>> rehab at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/rehab_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> rehab:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/rehab_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksand
>>> efur%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> rehab mailing list
>>> rehab at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/rehab_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> rehab:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/rehab_nfbnet.org/angel238%40sbcg
>>> lobal.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> rehab mailing list
>> rehab at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/rehab_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> rehab:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/rehab_nfbnet.org/ddavis%40blindinc.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> rehab mailing list
>> rehab at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/rehab_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> rehab:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/rehab_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%4
> 0gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> rehab mailing list
> rehab at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/rehab_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> rehab:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/rehab_nfbnet.org/ddavis%40blindinc.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> rehab mailing list
> rehab at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/rehab_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> rehab:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/rehab_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com