[rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice, and DBS's policy concerning out of state services
Dick Davis
ddavis at blindinc.org
Wed Apr 28 14:48:27 UTC 2010
I'm a former state agency director.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of RJ Sandefur
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 5:41 PM
To: Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List
Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice,and DBS's
policy concerning out of state services
Dick, are you a councilor? or a Lawyer? You're shure teaching me allot!
Thanks for the info! RJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Davis" <ddavis at blindinc.org>
To: "'Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List'" <rehab at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "'Pamela Allen'" <pallen at lcb-ruston.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice,and DBS's
policy concerning out of state services
>
> RJ,
>
> One thing I left out is that you can write your own IPE
> (individualized plan for employment) as long as you do it on agency
> forms. You can get whoever you want to assist you, not just your
> counselor. Make sure you are determined eligible for services first.
> After completing it, sign it and send it to your counselor with a
> cover letter asking him or her to approve and sign it within a
> specified time frame, say two weeks. Make sure to send it by
> registered mail or hand deliver it and get a receipt. That way they
> can't say it never arrived.
>
> They have to respond. They can either approve your IPE, refuse to
> approve it, or contact you and try to make changes in it. They can't
> just file it away and ignore it. If they do not respond within your
> specified time frame, write them a more strongly worded letter. If
> they still don't respond, file an appeal, using as your reason that
> they failed to respond after two attempts on your part. Ask for
> mediation or a full evidentiary hearing; don't accept an
> administrative review instead because administrative reviews are not
> an appeal resolution method under federal law. Agencies like to use
> them to kill time, and often they're done by the supervisor who helped
> make the decision in the first place.
>
> If you file an appeal, they have 60 days to resolve it, so the time
> pressure will be on them. If you try mediation (which must be done by
> an independent mediator with no connection with the agency) and it
> doesn't work out, you can go right to the full evidentiary hearing
> (before a state administrative law judge who also has no connection
> with the agency). They have to hold the hearing and give you a
> written ruling within the original 60 day time period unless you grant
> them an extension in writing. I wouldn't grant them one unless there
> is a very good reason.
>
> Once you initiate an appeal, don't let them talk you out of it; if you
> back down, they'll treat you any way they please. It's kind of a
> hardball approach, but it works well, does wonders for your
> self-esteem, and teaches them not to mess with you in the future.
>
> Dick Davis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
> Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 1:52 PM
> To: Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice,and
> DBS's policy concerning out of state services
>
> Thanks for the help dick. RJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dick Davis" <ddavis at blindinc.org>
> To: <angel238 at sbcglobal.net>; "'Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List'"
> <rehab at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 12:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice,and
> DBS's policy concerning out of state services
>
>
>> Hi Everybody,
>>
>> I was at the Wisconsin convention over the weekend and didn't see
>> this until today. The instate preference, which is regulatory and
>> not at all supported by the Rehab Act, was not intended to be used as
>> it is by this agency. A preference is just that, a preference, not a
>> requirement. They're treating it as a requirement. They are
>> operating within the law if they tell you they'd prefer you went to
>> their center and require that you check it out before making a final
>> decision. They would even be within the law if they asked you to do
>> the same with the Louisiana Center, although they should help pay for
>> your travel costs if they make it a requirement. But after being
>> informed, if you choose to go to the Louisiana Center, then that
>> choice is yours, not theirs.
>>
>> The regulations allow them to pay the cost of training at the
>> Lighthouse if it is lower, assuming the Louisiana Center will agree
>> to take it.
>> However,
>> there are lots of ways to get around that. Are the two programs
>> equivalent?
>> Does the Lighthouse provide training seven days a week and 24 hours a
>> day?
>> Does it have supervised student apartments where you can learn to
>> manage a place of your own and practice the skills you are learning
>> in class? Does it offer ten hours a week of mobility instruction,
>> five hours a week of computers, five hours of Braille, ten hours of
>> home
> management, etc.?
>> (Check
>> with the Louisiana Center to make sure these figures are correct.)
>> Does it offer job seeking skills training, career exploration and
>> planning, and assistance in finding employment? If not, the two
>> programs are not equivalent, and there is no justification for paying
>> the same amount for both.
>>
>> Pam Allen can provide you with the Louisiana Center information, and
>> somebody at the Lighthouse should be able to provide you with their
>> equivalents. Just collect the information, compare it, and submit a
>> written request justifying your decision and asking to attend the
>> center of your choice. But you need to apply for services with your
>> state agency and be determined eligible first. If you aren't a
>> client of theirs, they have no obligation to make any kind of
>> commitment to you.
>>
>> Dick
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of angel238 at sbcglobal.net
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 3:57 AM
>> To: Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice,and
>> DBS's policy concerning out of state services
>>
>> I was told that same thing 41 years ago. My mobility instructor
>> never completed the course of training for me because I wasn't able,
>> according to him, to walk a straight line. He encouraged me to get a
>> guide dog. I say, if it happened then, it could well happen to day.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>> To: "Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List" <rehab at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 12:52 PM
>> Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice,and
>> DBS's policy concerning out of state services
>>
>>
>>> Won, As a mobility instructor, Have you ever heard of a person being
>>> denied mobility training do to some one's balance? Or have you ever
>>> heard of a person being told that mobility was being discontinued
>>> because they were unable to walk in a straight line? I have mild
>>> cerebal paulsy, and I was told these things. But my mobility teacher
>>> from high school said that what I was told was a bunch of hogwash!
>>> RJ
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Haro, Juan, CFB" <Juan.Haro at state.nm.us>
>>> To: "Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List" <rehab at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 11:49 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice,and
>>> DBS's policy concerning out of state services
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello RJ:
>>>
>>> NBPCB stands for National Blindness Professional Certification Board.
>>> The web site is nbpcb.org. The only centers that are certified are
>>> the three NFB centers Louisiana, Colorado, and BLIND Inc.; and three
>>> state agencies New Mexico, Nebraska, and Hawaii. The certification
>>> indicates that the training you receive from these training centers
>>> follow a non-visual approach with high expectations.
>>>
>>> Juan F. Haro, M.A., NOMCT
>>> Cane Travel Instructor
>>> Commission for the Blind
>>> 408 N. White Sands Blvd.
>>> Alamogordo, NM 88310
>>> Phone: (575) 437-0401
>>> Email: juan.haro at state.nm.us
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of RJ Sandefur
>>> Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 8:51 AM
>>> To: Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice,and
>>> DBS's policy concerning out of state services
>>>
>>> What is Nbpcb? RJ
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Lansaw,Jane (DARS)" <Jane.Lansaw at dars.state.tx.us>
>>> To: "Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List" <rehab at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 8:27 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice, and
>>> DBS's policy concerning out of state services
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi RJ,
>>>> I wonder if you can use LCB's NBPCB certification as a justification.
>>>> I assume the Lighthouse isn't certified by NBPCB. Dave can
>>>> probably answer this question or maybe Dick Davis if he's watching.
>>>> Also, RJ, if you have any vision at all, even light perception you
>>>> can cite LCB's complete non-visual training as a method you respect
>>>> and feel you need to be fully employment-ready.
>>>>
>>>> I got my home state to send me to Colorado even though I had
>>>> already been through Lion's World several years previously.
>>>>
>>>> Good Luck,
>>>>
>>>> Jane
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:rehab-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of David Andrews
>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 9:59 PM
>>>> To: Rehabilitation Counselor Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [rehab] Fw: questions concerning informed choice, and
>>>> DBS's policy concerning out of state services
>>>>
>>>> If they reopen your case, then you will end up with an employment
>>>> goal, and a plan to reach that goal. You will have to show how LCB
>>>> will help you attain that goal, and why those resources available
>>>> to you in Florida will not do so.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> At 07:01 PM 4/24/2010, you wrote:
>>>>>Dear List, I'm thinking about re-opening my case with DBS, and I
>>>>>recieved this email from them, but I do not wish to recieve my
>>>>>ajustment to blindness training through the lighthouse. I wish to
>>>>>go to LCB. How can I justify this? RJ
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: Howard-Davis, Bobbie
>>>>>To: RJ Sandefur
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 11:51 AM
>>>>>Subject: RE: questions concerning informed choice, and DBS's policy
>>>>>concerning out of state services
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Mr. Sandefur, please accept my condolence to you on the lost of
>>>>>your mother.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you need some adjustment to blindness training at this time, we
>>>>>can reopen your file and refer you the Lighthouse for the Blind of
>>>>>the Palm Beaches at this time for training.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I am also attaching a copy the Division's policy on Informed Choice
>>>>>to help you in making your decision about training.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I know you are aware of the DBS policy on Out-State-Services,
>>>>>because you attached it to your e-mail.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>In order to assist you with training services, please call our
>>>>>office and ask to have your case reopen for services at
>>>>>561-681-2448 or 866-225-0794.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Bobbie Howard-Davis
>>>>>
>>>>>District Administrator
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>--
>>>>>-----------
>>>>>From: RJ Sandefur [mailto:joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com]
>>>>>Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:09 AM
>>>>>To: Howard-Davis, Bobbie
>>>>>Subject: questions concerning informed choice, and DBS's policy
>>>>>concerning out of state services
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Dear Mrs. Davis, My name is Robert Sandefur, I have some questions
>>>>>for you concerning my right to informed choice, and the DBS policy
>>>>>concerning out of state services. In 1999, I attended the
>>>>>rehabilitation center, which is now the orientation and adjustment
>>>>>center, and did not find the experience to be a pleasant one. In
>>>>>2004, I closed my case with DBS, due to a disagreement with my
>>>>>councilor at the time. However, due to having recently lost my
>>>>>mother, and other factors, I believe I am in need of some
>>>>>adjustment to blindness training, and this training should be
>>>>>conducted at the Louisiana center for the blind. (LCB) I was
>>>>>looking at the DBS web sight and came across the policy concerning out
of state services:
>>>>>Out of State Services
>>>>>DIVISION POLICY 6.14
>>>>>
>>>>>SUBJECT
>>>>>Out of State Services
>>>>>
>>>>>EFFECTIVE DATE
>>>>>July 9, 2003
>>>>>
>>>>>REVISION DATE
>>>>>February 14, 2008
>>>>>
>>>>>EXPIRATION DATE
>>>>>This policy will be reviewed annually and updated as needed.
>>>>>
>>>>>PURPOSE
>>>>>
>>>>>To provide guidelines for the provision of out-of-state services.
>>>>>
>>>>>AUTHORITY
>>>>>34 CFR 361.50(b)
>>>>>
>>>>>POLICY
>>>>>The Florida Division of Blind Services has established a preference
>>>>>for in-State services, provided that the preference does not
>>>>>effectively deny an individual a necessary service. If the
>>>>>individual chooses an out-of-State service at a higher cost than an
>>>>>in-State service, and either service would meet the individual's
>>>>>rehabilitation needs, the designated State unit is not responsible
>>>>>for those costs in excess of the cost of the in-State service.
>>>>>However, if the out-of-state services provides a unique service to
>>>>>meet the individual's rehabilitation plan, the Bureau Chief should
>>>>>be contacted to approve or disapproval such a service.
>>>>>
>>>>>Original signed by Michael Elliott, Bureau Chief, February 14, 2008
>>>>>But compare this with a directive from RSA. policy as stated in
>>>>>2001 in RSA PD-01-03:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> POLICY STATEMENT: The State VR program must provide
>>>>>applicants and individuals eligible for VR services with
>>>>>opportunities to exercise informed choice throughout the VR
>>>>>process, including making decisions about the employment goal, VR
>>>>>services, service providers, settings for employment and service
>>>>>provision, and methods for procuring services. To enable an
>>>>>individual to make such decisions, the State VR agency must provide
>>>>>information, support and assistance needed by the individual. The
>>>>>VR agency has the responsibility to implement policies, procedures,
>>>>>and practices, and to develop resources that enable applicants and
>>>>>individuals eligible for VR services to exercise informed choice
>>>>>throughout the entire VR process; these policies, procedures, and
>>>>>practices must be consistent with Federal statutory and regulatory
>>>>>requirements. Mrs. Davis, Does this mean, that DBS can tell me,
>>>>>"RJ, we're denying your request to attend LCB, due to causts?" I do
>>>>>realize I'd have to open a new case with DBS, since the previous
>>>>>one was closed in 2004. For your convience, I've attached a
>>>>>document explaining what LCB is, although I'm shure you know who
>>>>>they are. Mrs. Davis, This is only an inquiry, and I wish to get my
>>>>>facts so that I'll be able to have enough information in order to
>>>>>make an informed choice as to where to go from here. I did study
>>>>>with a Seminary, and obtain my master of theology, in 2006, and I was
licensed by my church to preach in 2005.
>>>>>It was tough loosing Mom, and I know, she'd want me to continue
>>>>>doing what I believe the Lord has called me to do. However, How am
>>>>>I going to be an effective minister, if I don't have the blindness
>>>>>training, needed to sirvive? Another concern I have, is I have
>>>>>learned some ministers start out as by-vocational. In 2004, until
>>>>>now, I didn't see that aspect of it. I have a batchors degree in
criminal justice.
>>>>>Another not so wise disision on my part. Mrs.
>>>>>Davis, I look forward to your answer. Sencerly, Robert Sandefur
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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