[Sportsandrec] Cane Placement
Carly Mihalakis
carlymih at earthlink.net
Sat Dec 27 18:27:32 UTC 2008
Joe,
I totally enjoy this pact, as I especially enjoy thinking of lyrics,
as it music plays such a significant role in my experience!
That was a good call, if a lyric was not particularly applicable.
"So I sing a this song of love, Julia."
the Beatles At 08:31 AM 12/27/2008, you wrote:
>Carly,
>The pact is intact, it did not seem apropriate for that post. I'm
>back on the grid lol.
>"I don't mind the sun sometimes and the images it shows" "I can
>taste you on my lips and smell you in my clothes" "Cinnamon and
>sugary and softly spoken lies" "Ya never know just how you'll look
>through other people's eyes" Pepper Butthole Surfers
>Joe
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Carly Mihalakis" <carlymih at earthlink.net>
>To: "Sports and Recreation for the Blind Discussion List"
><sportsandrec at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 1:33 AM
>Subject: Re: [Sportsandrec] Cane Placement
>
>
>>Joe,
>>
>>Where' your LYRIC, boy?
>>I thought it was a pact between music fans!
>>Carly
>>"
>>>Ashley,
>>>I am very tired and am hitting the sack. I feel good to give my
>>>email address jrs3147 at comcast.net but I truely believe this to be
>>>a good discussion on-list and think our board would agree. I am
>>>going to answer this posting first thing in the morning. I want to
>>>give it some thought rather than to ramble or make you feel as if
>>>I am being rude to you. I believe I come off brash often and don't
>>>want to here.
>>>Night,
>>>Joe
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>To: "Sports and Recreation for the Blind Discussion List"
>>><sportsandrec at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 10:47 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [Sportsandrec] Cane Placement
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi Joe,
>>>>
>>>>Well, good for you if you are the type to involve the new member
>>>>in the group. I know what you mean about the house. I am also
>>>>the only blind one and when things are not put up, I stumble over
>>>>them too if I can't see it. I have tunnel vision. But I think
>>>>we both agree that storing the cane out of everybody's way so as
>>>>not to offend or inconvience them is a good idea; its polite. I
>>>>think its a way of blending in. I store my cane under my chair
>>>>at restaurants and when going to dance, its at the table with
>>>>someone. No haven't really been to a club although was at a
>>>>thing called Player's pub at a resort where they had music,
>>>>drinks and dancing for people over 21 only.
>>>>
>>>>As for socializing you said "I worry for you about the mind-set
>>>>of this entire post I am
>>>>replying to and think discussions like these are what the Federation is all
>>>>about and are things that actually change what it means to be blind."
>>>>
>>>>I'm not sure what you mean and we might take it off list if you
>>>>want to reply. so what is your email address?
>>>>I mean I know the philosophy but I don't get your "worry"
>>>>part. Maybe we'll disagree. I guess my life experience doesn't
>>>>fit the nfb philosophy. Sorry; its just that being partially
>>>>blind hasn't been just a nuisance to me. I am on many nfb lists
>>>>though to learn what you all do and how. I met the nfb eight or
>>>>nine years ago as a teen. Anyway, my point is that blindness
>>>>is a barrier to meeting new people for many of us including
>>>>me. If you disagree that's okay but I speak from experience so
>>>>it may be a disagreement here.
>>>>I am totally for going out of your comfort zone and educating
>>>>people and attempting to fit in. But to acquire confidence and
>>>>good self esteem you have to have successful relationships. Its
>>>>a interconnected thing. To have confidence you have to feel
>>>>normal and accepted but to gain confidence you have to
>>>>have the social background for it. Hope that made sense. For
>>>>instance take something recreation related. If a blind kid feels
>>>>included at recess playing on the equipment, slides, swings etc
>>>>they will gain confidence and positive self esteem. But if they
>>>>are rejected by peers and/or discouraged from playing on
>>>>everything or don't due to their own fear they will not acquire confidence.
>>>>
>>>>As for myself I find it uncomfortable to go into a crowd of
>>>>people and not be able to find people I know. Sighted people can
>>>>scan and find them that way. For instance there was a late night
>>>>dinner at my campus and I walked in and didn't know anyone. I
>>>>think someone came up to me later but til then I was
>>>>alone. Having confidence doesn't seem to break the barrier.
>>>>People also come up to me and say "hi" and don't identify
>>>>themselves. I of course ask then. We need to be out there and
>>>>doing regular things but even a positive attitude can only go so
>>>>far. I mean you have to have people you're around do their part
>>>>too such as identifying themselves when they come up to you or
>>>>describing action if you're in a crowd where that's happening
>>>>like a pep rally. Yes a positive attitude goes a long way. Yet
>>>>if people don't accept you or make an effort on their part to
>>>>include you well pretty soon you may loose some of the good
>>>>attitude and/or confidence.
>>>>As for myself I've had good and bad social experiences. But such
>>>>examples are another long post.
>>>>
>>>>Happy holidays!
>>>>Ashley
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: Joe Shaw <jrs3147 at comcast.net>
>>>>>Sent: Dec 26, 2008 6:43 PM
>>>>>To: Sports and Recreation for the Blind Discussion List
>>>>><sportsandrec at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Sportsandrec] Cane Placement
>>>>>
>>>>>You don't go to clubs (razz)
>>>>>As for blind people being non-inclusive, I think sometimes you
>>>>>have to make
>>>>>the first move. In my groups, I am quick to invite and involve
>>>>>the "new guy"
>>>>>as I know of your ilk who is soo scared to talk to people and
>>>>>are afraid you
>>>>>will look funny or say the wrong thing. To that I say being the
>>>>>funny guy or
>>>>>the guy who does something stupid is often embraced by groups as it helps
>>>>>them feel better about doing something out of their comfort zone. The
>>>>>comfort zone and the combat zone are neighbors Ashley, the combat zone is
>>>>>much more fun. I worry for you about the mind-set of this
>>>>>entire post I am
>>>>>replying to and think discussions like these are what the
>>>>>Federation is all
>>>>>about and are things that actually change what it means to be
>>>>>blind. You say
>>>>>blindness is a barrier to meeting new people and I am here to
>>>>>tell you that
>>>>>self-confidence, independence, self-esteem, and accomplishment are the
>>>>>battering ram to that barrier. These tools cannot be culled without trial,
>>>>>success, and yes failure. When you have gathered and honed who you are
>>>>>socially, it is like shampoo wash, rinse, and repeat. I learn to be more
>>>>>comfortable being me daily, join me.
>>>>>As for being considerate to sighted people, I guess. I am the only blind
>>>>>person in my house and noone puts anything away. I stumble over stuff
>>>>>constantly. That is okay. When at a club or restaurant, there are almost
>>>>>always no chairs pushed in. People can see that they are there. That is
>>>>>okay. In many parking lots, many people park any old way they
>>>>>choose to get
>>>>>in and out of wherever it is. That is okay. All these examples
>>>>>are why I use
>>>>>the cane. No, I am not ultra worried if I leave my cane where
>>>>>someone might
>>>>>have to take a step to the right or to the left or step over it. Yes, I
>>>>>usually stash my cane out of everybody else's way so as not to offend or
>>>>>inconvenience anyone, but if I do, I don't stress over it much.
>>>>>"Get up, Stand up!" "Stand up for your rights!" Stand Up For
>>>>>Your Rights Bob
>>>>>Marley
>>>>>Yo Federation Brutha,
>>>>>Joe Shaw
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>To: "Sports and Recreation for the Blind Discussion List"
>>>>><sportsandrec at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 3:36 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Sportsandrec] Cane Placement
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks for your all suggestions. I've done what Kelly has done in the
>>>>>>past. Just looking for ideas and seeing what others thought. I, too,
>>>>>>have left my cane at the table in a club/food setting. I'd leave it at
>>>>>>the corner of the room in a class. I have done what Kelly did
>>>>>>and some of
>>>>>>you said, I leave it somewhere and walk sighted guide to the dance floor
>>>>>>and back to my cane at the end.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I am not shy but I am a little more reserved until you get to know me. I
>>>>>>don't reveal a lot to those I don't know well. I have not made many
>>>>>>friends though even though I tried to be out and about around campus. I
>>>>>>just think there is this barrier; its difficult to go into a room and you
>>>>>>don't know who is there like at club events. But that is a different
>>>>>>matter. No shy and blind should not go together but sadly sometimes they
>>>>>>do. I've seen shy people at nfb meetings and other places like at camps
>>>>>>for the blind. They are overlooked because few can see them and blind
>>>>>>people tend to mingle with those they already know rather than a newcomer
>>>>>>in my experience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Anyway, I do care where I put the cane and what image I project. I think
>>>>>>saying who cares will turn people off. We live with sighted people and
>>>>>>its important to be considerate. It should not be in the way of other
>>>>>>people. Yes its an independent life issue but we have to balance our
>>>>>>rights with the rights of others.
>>>>>>If a cane is in the path at a restaurant someone else will care who is
>>>>>>trying to walk by.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ashley
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>From: Joe Shaw <jrs3147 at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>Sent: Dec 26, 2008 1:23 AM
>>>>>>>To: Sports and Recreation for the Blind Discussion List
>>>>>>><sportsandrec at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Sportsandrec] Cane Placement
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Ashley,
>>>>>>>I have found that shy and blind don't mix well with one another. Leave
>>>>>>>your
>>>>>>>cane wherever you want, who cares. Slide it under your chair, put in the
>>>>>>>corner behind the door at the restroom, give it to sighted friends to
>>>>>>>hold/
>>>>>>>play with while you're dancin. I believe this is a Federation
>>>>>>>phylosiphy/
>>>>>>>independent life issue. Who cares where you put your cane as
>>>>>>>long as it is
>>>>>>>safe and you know where it is. I mean, this is not Plaxico looking for a
>>>>>>>good spot to put his gun before it went off. If you are alone, I guess
>>>>>>>this
>>>>>>>could be an issue though wouldn't you just leave it where you
>>>>>>>are sitting
>>>>>>>be
>>>>>>>it the bar or a table while you dance? If with a group, surely
>>>>>>>someone in
>>>>>>>the group would hold/ watch it while you are cutting your
>>>>>>>proverbial rug.
>>>>>>>In
>>>>>>>my group of blind friends that I have had for a long time, there are
>>>>>>>usually
>>>>>>>a couple types. There is the guy who is very shy because he is blind and
>>>>>>>doesn't have a lot of friends but for those who he has been friends with
>>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>many years and has trouble meeting new people. Then there is the guy who
>>>>>>>doesn't care about his blindness, is outgoing, starts conversations, and
>>>>>>>has
>>>>>>>many friends because he is never afraid to make the initial move. Always
>>>>>>>be
>>>>>>>the ladder Ashley. The ladder is usually the NFB guy.
>>>>>>>"Do a little dance" "Make a little love" "Get down tonight" Get Down
>>>>>>>Tonight
>>>>>>>K.C. and the Sunshine Band
>>>>>>>Merry Christmas/ Happy Hanukkah/ hope everyone had a nice Wednesday and
>>>>>>>Thursday lol.
>>>>>>>JS
>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Carly Mihalakis"
>>>>>>><carlymih at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>To: "Sports and Recreation for the Blind Discussion List"
>>>>>>><sportsandrec at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 5:32 PM
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Sportsandrec] Cane Placement
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Kelly,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You said it!
>>>>>>>>If you're a single chick, or even a single guy dance class could be a
>>>>>>>>great place to meet people, as well as enlighten others of blind
>>>>>>>>peoples'
>>>>>>>>abilities.
>>>>>>>>I realize it sounds scary, but remember how often the protocol in
>>>>>>>>certain
>>>>>>>>situations calls for entirely swollowing your pride, not really being
>>>>>>>>too
>>>>>>>>embarassed just to live your life on your terms?
>>>>>>>>I have been to social salsa dancing, and when I come to a new partner I
>>>>>>>>just say "I'm blind" and it never matters, for I can move. simply
>>>>>>>>leaving
>>>>>>>>the cane at the corner of the dance room (in classes), at the
>>>>>>>>table with
>>>>>>>>other friends (out in clubs), or with the bar tender (there is an
>>>>>>>>advantage of being considered a good tipper) works well. I have carried
>>>>>>>>my
>>>>>>>>folding cane, but not often. Or, you can leave the cane in a trusted
>>>>>>>>place, find the cutest, single, opposite gendered dance partner, and go
>>>>>>>>sighted guide back to your cane. Hey, cheesy I know, but I've met a few
>>>>>>>>repeat dance partners that way, and if you are going to go
>>>>>>>>sighted guide
>>>>>>>>anyway...It also gives a chance to enlighten another person about what
>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>>can do as a blind person, when you might need a little assistance, and
>>>>>>>>most importantly that you are approachable as a blind person.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>As mentioned before, partner dancing is very accessible for everyone.
>>>>>>>>>One
>>>>>>>>>advantage we have is that we pay more attention to how the
>>>>>>>>>moves "feel"
>>>>>>>>>as
>>>>>>>>>opposed to how they "look," often considered to be a better
>>>>>>>>>learning/practice method than pure visualization.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>So, jump in with both feet (put both feet in, put both feet out, put
>>>>>>>>>both
>>>>>>>>>feet in and shake 'em all about...come on, we knew it was
>>>>>>>>>coming). Enjoy
>>>>>>>>>it, and develop a new experience for yourself and those in
>>>>>>>>>the class who
>>>>>>>>>may have never danced with such a good partner who just happens to be
>>>>>>>>>blind.
>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>Sportsandrec mailing list
>>>>>>>>>Sportsandrec at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>Sportsandrec:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>
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>
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