[Sportsandrec] Cane Placement
Joe Shaw
jrs3147 at comcast.net
Sat Dec 27 16:31:09 UTC 2008
Carly,
The pact is intact, it did not seem apropriate for that post. I'm back on
the grid lol.
"I don't mind the sun sometimes and the images it shows" "I can taste you on
my lips and smell you in my clothes" "Cinnamon and sugary and softly spoken
lies" "Ya never know just how you'll look through other people's eyes"
Pepper Butthole Surfers
Joe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carly Mihalakis" <carlymih at earthlink.net>
To: "Sports and Recreation for the Blind Discussion List"
<sportsandrec at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 1:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Sportsandrec] Cane Placement
> Joe,
>
> Where' your LYRIC, boy?
> I thought it was a pact between music fans!
> Carly
> "
>>Ashley,
>>I am very tired and am hitting the sack. I feel good to give my email
>>address jrs3147 at comcast.net but I truely believe this to be a good
>>discussion on-list and think our board would agree. I am going to answer
>>this posting first thing in the morning. I want to give it some thought
>>rather than to ramble or make you feel as if I am being rude to you. I
>>believe I come off brash often and don't want to here.
>>Night,
>>Joe
>>----- Original Message ----- From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>To: "Sports and Recreation for the Blind Discussion List"
>><sportsandrec at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 10:47 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Sportsandrec] Cane Placement
>>
>>
>>>Hi Joe,
>>>
>>>Well, good for you if you are the type to involve the new member in the
>>>group. I know what you mean about the house. I am also the only blind
>>>one and when things are not put up, I stumble over them too if I can't
>>>see it. I have tunnel vision. But I think we both agree that storing
>>>the cane out of everybody's way so as not to offend or inconvience them
>>>is a good idea; its polite. I think its a way of blending in. I store
>>>my cane under my chair at restaurants and when going to dance, its at the
>>>table with someone. No haven't really been to a club although was at a
>>>thing called Player's pub at a resort where they had music, drinks and
>>>dancing for people over 21 only.
>>>
>>>As for socializing you said "I worry for you about the mind-set of this
>>>entire post I am
>>>replying to and think discussions like these are what the Federation is
>>>all
>>>about and are things that actually change what it means to be blind."
>>>
>>>I'm not sure what you mean and we might take it off list if you want to
>>>reply. so what is your email address?
>>>I mean I know the philosophy but I don't get your "worry" part. Maybe
>>>we'll disagree. I guess my life experience doesn't fit the nfb
>>>philosophy. Sorry; its just that being partially blind hasn't been just
>>>a nuisance to me. I am on many nfb lists though to learn what you all do
>>>and how. I met the nfb eight or nine years ago as a teen. Anyway, my
>>>point is that blindness
>>>is a barrier to meeting new people for many of us including me. If you
>>>disagree that's okay but I speak from experience so it may be a
>>>disagreement here.
>>>I am totally for going out of your comfort zone and educating people and
>>>attempting to fit in. But to acquire confidence and good self esteem you
>>>have to have successful relationships. Its a interconnected thing. To
>>>have confidence you have to feel normal and accepted but to gain
>>>confidence you have to
>>>have the social background for it. Hope that made sense. For instance
>>>take something recreation related. If a blind kid feels included at
>>>recess playing on the equipment, slides, swings etc they will gain
>>>confidence and positive self esteem. But if they are rejected by peers
>>>and/or discouraged from playing on everything or don't due to their own
>>>fear they will not acquire confidence.
>>>
>>>As for myself I find it uncomfortable to go into a crowd of people and
>>>not be able to find people I know. Sighted people can scan and find them
>>>that way. For instance there was a late night dinner at my campus and I
>>>walked in and didn't know anyone. I think someone came up to me later
>>>but til then I was alone. Having confidence doesn't seem to break the
>>>barrier. People also come up to me and say "hi" and don't identify
>>>themselves. I of course ask then. We need to be out there and doing
>>>regular things but even a positive attitude can only go so far. I mean
>>>you have to have people you're around do their part too such as
>>>identifying themselves when they come up to you or describing action if
>>>you're in a crowd where that's happening like a pep rally. Yes a
>>>positive attitude goes a long way. Yet if people don't accept you or
>>>make an effort on their part to include you well pretty soon you may
>>>loose some of the good attitude and/or confidence.
>>>As for myself I've had good and bad social experiences. But such
>>>examples are another long post.
>>>
>>>Happy holidays!
>>>Ashley
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Joe Shaw <jrs3147 at comcast.net>
>>>>Sent: Dec 26, 2008 6:43 PM
>>>>To: Sports and Recreation for the Blind Discussion List
>>>><sportsandrec at nfbnet.org>
>>>>Subject: Re: [Sportsandrec] Cane Placement
>>>>
>>>>You don't go to clubs (razz)
>>>>As for blind people being non-inclusive, I think sometimes you have to
>>>>make
>>>>the first move. In my groups, I am quick to invite and involve the "new
>>>>guy"
>>>>as I know of your ilk who is soo scared to talk to people and are afraid
>>>>you
>>>>will look funny or say the wrong thing. To that I say being the funny
>>>>guy or
>>>>the guy who does something stupid is often embraced by groups as it
>>>>helps
>>>>them feel better about doing something out of their comfort zone. The
>>>>comfort zone and the combat zone are neighbors Ashley, the combat zone
>>>>is
>>>>much more fun. I worry for you about the mind-set of this entire post I
>>>>am
>>>>replying to and think discussions like these are what the Federation is
>>>>all
>>>>about and are things that actually change what it means to be blind. You
>>>>say
>>>>blindness is a barrier to meeting new people and I am here to tell you
>>>>that
>>>>self-confidence, independence, self-esteem, and accomplishment are the
>>>>battering ram to that barrier. These tools cannot be culled without
>>>>trial,
>>>>success, and yes failure. When you have gathered and honed who you are
>>>>socially, it is like shampoo wash, rinse, and repeat. I learn to be more
>>>>comfortable being me daily, join me.
>>>>As for being considerate to sighted people, I guess. I am the only blind
>>>>person in my house and noone puts anything away. I stumble over stuff
>>>>constantly. That is okay. When at a club or restaurant, there are almost
>>>>always no chairs pushed in. People can see that they are there. That is
>>>>okay. In many parking lots, many people park any old way they choose to
>>>>get
>>>>in and out of wherever it is. That is okay. All these examples are why I
>>>>use
>>>>the cane. No, I am not ultra worried if I leave my cane where someone
>>>>might
>>>>have to take a step to the right or to the left or step over it. Yes, I
>>>>usually stash my cane out of everybody else's way so as not to offend or
>>>>inconvenience anyone, but if I do, I don't stress over it much.
>>>>"Get up, Stand up!" "Stand up for your rights!" Stand Up For Your Rights
>>>>Bob
>>>>Marley
>>>>Yo Federation Brutha,
>>>>Joe Shaw
>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>To: "Sports and Recreation for the Blind Discussion List"
>>>><sportsandrec at nfbnet.org>
>>>>Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 3:36 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [Sportsandrec] Cane Placement
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks for your all suggestions. I've done what Kelly has done in the
>>>>>past. Just looking for ideas and seeing what others thought. I, too,
>>>>>have left my cane at the table in a club/food setting. I'd leave it at
>>>>>the corner of the room in a class. I have done what Kelly did and some
>>>>>of
>>>>>you said, I leave it somewhere and walk sighted guide to the dance
>>>>>floor
>>>>>and back to my cane at the end.
>>>>>
>>>>>I am not shy but I am a little more reserved until you get to know me.
>>>>>I
>>>>>don't reveal a lot to those I don't know well. I have not made many
>>>>>friends though even though I tried to be out and about around campus.
>>>>>I
>>>>>just think there is this barrier; its difficult to go into a room and
>>>>>you
>>>>>don't know who is there like at club events. But that is a different
>>>>>matter. No shy and blind should not go together but sadly sometimes
>>>>>they
>>>>>do. I've seen shy people at nfb meetings and other places like at
>>>>>camps
>>>>>for the blind. They are overlooked because few can see them and blind
>>>>>people tend to mingle with those they already know rather than a
>>>>>newcomer
>>>>>in my experience.
>>>>>
>>>>>Anyway, I do care where I put the cane and what image I project. I
>>>>>think
>>>>>saying who cares will turn people off. We live with sighted people and
>>>>>its important to be considerate. It should not be in the way of other
>>>>>people. Yes its an independent life issue but we have to balance our
>>>>>rights with the rights of others.
>>>>>If a cane is in the path at a restaurant someone else will care who is
>>>>>trying to walk by.
>>>>>
>>>>>Ashley
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>From: Joe Shaw <jrs3147 at comcast.net>
>>>>>>Sent: Dec 26, 2008 1:23 AM
>>>>>>To: Sports and Recreation for the Blind Discussion List
>>>>>><sportsandrec at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Sportsandrec] Cane Placement
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ashley,
>>>>>>I have found that shy and blind don't mix well with one another. Leave
>>>>>>your
>>>>>>cane wherever you want, who cares. Slide it under your chair, put in
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>corner behind the door at the restroom, give it to sighted friends to
>>>>>>hold/
>>>>>>play with while you're dancin. I believe this is a Federation
>>>>>>phylosiphy/
>>>>>>independent life issue. Who cares where you put your cane as long as
>>>>>>it is
>>>>>>safe and you know where it is. I mean, this is not Plaxico looking for
>>>>>>a
>>>>>>good spot to put his gun before it went off. If you are alone, I guess
>>>>>>this
>>>>>>could be an issue though wouldn't you just leave it where you are
>>>>>>sitting
>>>>>>be
>>>>>>it the bar or a table while you dance? If with a group, surely someone
>>>>>>in
>>>>>>the group would hold/ watch it while you are cutting your proverbial
>>>>>>rug.
>>>>>>In
>>>>>>my group of blind friends that I have had for a long time, there are
>>>>>>usually
>>>>>>a couple types. There is the guy who is very shy because he is blind
>>>>>>and
>>>>>>doesn't have a lot of friends but for those who he has been friends
>>>>>>with
>>>>>>for
>>>>>>many years and has trouble meeting new people. Then there is the guy
>>>>>>who
>>>>>>doesn't care about his blindness, is outgoing, starts conversations,
>>>>>>and
>>>>>>has
>>>>>>many friends because he is never afraid to make the initial move.
>>>>>>Always
>>>>>>be
>>>>>>the ladder Ashley. The ladder is usually the NFB guy.
>>>>>>"Do a little dance" "Make a little love" "Get down tonight" Get Down
>>>>>>Tonight
>>>>>>K.C. and the Sunshine Band
>>>>>>Merry Christmas/ Happy Hanukkah/ hope everyone had a nice Wednesday
>>>>>>and
>>>>>>Thursday lol.
>>>>>>JS
>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Carly Mihalakis"
>>>>>><carlymih at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>To: "Sports and Recreation for the Blind Discussion List"
>>>>>><sportsandrec at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 5:32 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Sportsandrec] Cane Placement
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Kelly,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You said it!
>>>>>>>If you're a single chick, or even a single guy dance class could be a
>>>>>>>great place to meet people, as well as enlighten others of blind
>>>>>>>peoples'
>>>>>>>abilities.
>>>>>>>I realize it sounds scary, but remember how often the protocol in
>>>>>>>certain
>>>>>>>situations calls for entirely swollowing your pride, not really being
>>>>>>>too
>>>>>>>embarassed just to live your life on your terms?
>>>>>>>I have been to social salsa dancing, and when I come to a new partner
>>>>>>>I
>>>>>>>just say "I'm blind" and it never matters, for I can move. simply
>>>>>>>leaving
>>>>>>>the cane at the corner of the dance room (in classes), at the table
>>>>>>>with
>>>>>>>other friends (out in clubs), or with the bar tender (there is an
>>>>>>>advantage of being considered a good tipper) works well. I have
>>>>>>>carried
>>>>>>>my
>>>>>>>folding cane, but not often. Or, you can leave the cane in a trusted
>>>>>>>place, find the cutest, single, opposite gendered dance partner, and
>>>>>>>go
>>>>>>>sighted guide back to your cane. Hey, cheesy I know, but I've met a
>>>>>>>few
>>>>>>>repeat dance partners that way, and if you are going to go sighted
>>>>>>>guide
>>>>>>>anyway...It also gives a chance to enlighten another person about
>>>>>>>what
>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>can do as a blind person, when you might need a little assistance,
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>most importantly that you are approachable as a blind person.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>As mentioned before, partner dancing is very accessible for
>>>>>>>>everyone.
>>>>>>>>One
>>>>>>>>advantage we have is that we pay more attention to how the moves
>>>>>>>>"feel"
>>>>>>>>as
>>>>>>>>opposed to how they "look," often considered to be a better
>>>>>>>>learning/practice method than pure visualization.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>So, jump in with both feet (put both feet in, put both feet out, put
>>>>>>>>both
>>>>>>>>feet in and shake 'em all about...come on, we knew it was coming).
>>>>>>>>Enjoy
>>>>>>>>it, and develop a new experience for yourself and those in the class
>>>>>>>>who
>>>>>>>>may have never danced with such a good partner who just happens to
>>>>>>>>be
>>>>>>>>blind.
>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>Sportsandrec mailing list
>>>>>>>>Sportsandrec at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
>>>Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
>>>
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