[Sportsandrec] echo location was blind skateboarder
justin williams
justin.williams2 at gmail.com
Thu Feb 14 16:16:40 UTC 2013
You said it all that time buddy. I agree 100 percent. I always think that
there is a way to do something given the right sool, skill, or situation.
Sometimes I don't always have access to it. I can combine that with my
martila arts practice.
-----Original Message-----
From: Sportsandrec [mailto:sportsandrec-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
JUSTIN LOUCHART
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 10:32 AM
To: Sports and Recreation for the Blind Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Sportsandrec] echo location was blind skateboarder
Hello, Julie,
We go to our students. For instance I'll be in Colorado in two weeks, then
I'm in Indiana, then Wisconsin, then California, and then I think I'm in
Belgium, Italy, and possibly Australia. Daniel's currently in Australia, but
he's back and forth between something like 30 countries a year. We have
several instructors and several more interns, and our geography is always
changing.
The wind makes things more difficult, but not actually very difficult at all
on the grand scheme. Now, 40 miles an hour might be a little more tough than
a pleasant breeze, but you'd quickly learn to adapt your clicking technique
and your listening technique to manage. I don't think I would go mountain
biking with especially heavy wind, but I would go hiking in forests or
mountains without a problem. The extra wind would just make it hard to hear
enough to ride a bike at fast speeds on that sort of terrain. Granted,
there's always the possibility that I'd find out that with more experience,
maybe it's easier than I anticipate.
I love the perceptual mobility approach. When recently I had a medical
problem and the doctors brought up enucleation, or surgical removal of the
eyes, I didn't hesitate. I had a little bit of vision left, but I was
certain that I have the skills to acclimate. I knew there would be a
learning curve going from sub-acuity contrast vision to absolutely nothing,
but I was up for the challenge. Honestly, I've enjoyed it.
And I'm not convinced I'd have that confidence if I hadn't first learned
flash sonar and the other parts of the approach.
Flash sonar isn't a miracle cure. The first step will always be your
attitudinal awareness of your life and your blindness. If you feel
restricted, then you're restricted. If you feel open, curious, and
adventurous, then you can learn to accomplish anything. It all comes down to
goals. If you want to learn to do the impossible, you can learn it. If you
feel like you're just fine the way you are, then you're probably not
interested in expanding from that point.
Speaking frankly, I think a lot of the skepticism regarding what we're
capable of as blind people comes from a poor opinion of blindness in
general. We've been trained to think that being blind is hard. You know, I
have to admit, I'm not convinced that blindness is hard. I think that being
blind and scared is hard, but I don't think that being blind is hard.
Many countries function in the K through 12 system as a hands on, sighted
guide, wall-trailing approach. You use routes, you use arms, and one day you
get a dog to guide you around obstacles. That's the model we all were told
was the best model out there.
I issue that model a polite and friendly challenge. I believe not in
teaching my students what I think I know, but in teaching them to teach
themselves instead. I try and give my students the skills so that they never
have to use routes or guides, unless they really and truly feel like it.
Most blind folks seem to use sighted guide because it's easier, faster, and
it's what they've been trained on. I tell my students, "Autonomy above
independence." My students can get through most places basically as quickly
as a sighted person, they're just going to need to ask about visual signage.
My students know how to handle their anxiety about independently navigating
airports and shopping malls. If they want, they can jump on a bike and go
with friends. But they also know that it's completely fine, if you already
have the skills, to go ahead and take an arm. It's of utmost importance that
you have the skills to do anything you could ever want to do. It's somehow
even more important to be able to teach yourself to be comfortable in new
places and new situations. But it's less important to refuse sighted
assistance simply on the grounds of a non-sighted bias.
What I'm saying here is that perceptual mobility gave me options. Not
pretend options, like telling me what to do and when to do it because it's
been done that way for sixty years, but real, true options.
Options to take the ascription or not depending upon my mood that day.
Which is a wonderful and irrefutable freedom.
Forewarning, I'm going to digress a little here. Please bear with me.
I met a very competent blind person once who grew up sighted and went blind
as an adult. Mentally he was all there, and he was very attached to his
independence, but he said on more than one occasion that he couldn't do
things he dreamed of doing because he's blind. He said the words, "I can't
do that, I'm blind," even though I know full well that he could've done
those tasks and more if given the right sense of freedom. But it just wasn't
there. He just didn't have those non-visual skills. I think about that a lot
when interacting with my students. What are they going through, and what
have their circumstances made them believe about themselves?
I think it's those myths we've grown to believe about ourselves which are
the most dangerous. I'm very careful to not call vision good and blindness
bad. I never say that a student has good enough vision to do something, or
their vision is too bad to do something else. I always frame it from a place
of true neutrality. Vision isn't good, and a lack of vision isn't bad. And
yet this language permeates blindness culture. You see in everything from
self-help books to instructional documentation and conversation, over and
over again, sighted and blind people alike calling vision good and the lack
of vision bad. They don't even realize they're doing it. That represents a
huge slam to true autonomy in my mind. How can we as blind people expect
ourselves to ride skateboards or go mountain biking if we're so deeply
embedded with these negative frameworks?
I always smile a little bit when I see blind people openly discouraging
other blind people from clicking. They say it'll make us look weird. That
it'll make us socially unacceptable. Really? We actually believe as a
culture that you look weird doing what everyone else does, and striving for
the same goals as our peers? That doesn't make much sense to me.
I believe in having options and in giving those options to my students.
Autonomy above independence. If you have the skills, the choice is always
yours. If you don't have the skills, you really don't have a choice.
Justin
On 2/15/13, Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com> wrote:
> Justin L.,
>
> Thank you! This makes a lot of sense and is very useful. I think I
> have missed a lot of this discussion because I thought people were
> still talking about skateboarding, which I have absolutely no interest in.
>
> So where do you teach this stuff? Do you travel and do weekend
> workshops or do blind people travel to you? I am very interested in
> learning this skill. I use some very basic echolocation skills, but
> nowhere near what you are telling me is possible.
>
> How does wind and weather conditions affect this ability? I live in
> Nebraska where it is perpetually windy. There are days when the wind
> is blowing 40mph and I can't hear anything but the wind.
>
> Also, I am primarily a guide dog user so the cane tap method isn't
> going to be any sort of useful to me. My dog makes course corrections
> further in advance of any of my other dogs. I appreciate his
> thoughtfulness and planning, but if I was more aware of why he is
> wanting to do what he is suggesting to me, it would be a huge help.
> There are times that he wants to take a detour, but I insist that we
> continue only to find out two driveways down that people are moving
> and there is a van parked across the sidewalk and stuff everywhere, making
it impossible to go
> by. We end up backtracking and making the turn he suggested in the
> first place.
>
> Thank you again for the excellent explanation of what is possible. I
> honestly had no idea.
> Julie
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2/15/2013 7:38 AM, JUSTIN LOUCHART wrote:
>> Hello, Everyone,
>>
>> I'm going to point out that there are two Justins involved with this
>> conversation. There's Justin Williams, who wants to hide his
>> potential echolocation abilities, and there's me, Justin Louchart,
>> who is an echolocation teacher and strives to make my skills and the
>> skills of others public information available to all interested parties.
>>
>> Julie, in response to your question about cane taps being used for
>> echolocation, there are two parts to my answer as an educator and as
>> a scientist in the field.
>>
>> First, yes, your cane tap can be used as a relatively bad
>> echolocation signal.
>>
>> Second, emphasis on the relatively bad.
>>
>> The cane tap comes from the ground, hits the target, and reaches the
>> ears. Meaning that all of your images are going to be bent, blurry,
>> and inconsistent. Not only that, but furthermore there is no real aim
>> or directionality in using a cane tap. Next, the cane tap doesn't
>> work on all or even most surfaces. You cannot modulate the volume or
>> the frequency of the cane tap in anywhere near the same way you can a
>> tongue click. Finally, your acuity simply isn't as good with a cane
>> tap, no matter what you do. You won't be able to see the front versus
>> the back of a car with your cane tap from fifteen feet away.
>>
>> It might be worth mentioning that if you're using your cane tap for
>> echolocation, riding a bicycle independently in unknown environments,
>> riding a mountain bike on advanced trails, hiking on your own, doing
>> independent mountain climbing, doing advanced tree climbing, and
>> accomplishing a thousand other independent recreational activities is
>> much less convenient or likely to happen.
>>
>> I have no fear when I travel, no matter what I'm asked to do. Flash
>> sonar and other perceptual mobility techniques give me the options to
>> do anything from walk to the grocery store without running into
>> anything to go bicycling on an unknown street with my students. Flash
>> sonar opened doors for me and for countless others that most blind
>> folks don't even realize are closed to them. If you ask most blind
>> people why they don't go mountain biking, hiking, or why they don't
>> play soccer with sighted peers, they're going to tell you that they
>> don't even want to. Well, how much of their not wanting to is a
>> result of their not thinking it's easy or fun? How much of it is
>> because blindness and people around blindness indicated to them that
>> it's either impossible, or not worth the effort?
>>
>>
>> I don't have to worry about any of that. I see my environment quite
>> similarly to any sighted person, mine just doesn't have color or
>> extremely fine details. I can choose how to navigate an environment
>> usually a block or half a block away, depending on clutter. If you
>> have that preparation, a million things are easier.
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> On 2/15/13, Julie J.<julielj at neb.rr.com> wrote:
>>> I'm confused as to why you want to hide your abilities? I don't get
>>> the sense that you are embarrased or that you think it would truly
>>> be a bother to other people.
>>>
>>> Also, doesn't the tap of the cane tip provide a sound from which to
>>> use for echolocation? Maybe you've discussed this, I don't know.
>>> Again the subject was about skateboarding so I wasn't reading.
>>>
>>> Very curiously,
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi, Justin,
>>>>
>>>> Well, do ya think most sighted people will be none the wiser about
>>>> what you are doing, unless they know what to be listening for?
>>>> Perhaps, amongst other blind folk, such an ability might be hard to
>>>> conceal, but relax about your treasure. What's the point of hiding
>>>> it when, I'm sure you don't see sighted people concealing the fact
>>>> that, they might be able to ocularly see. For me, seeing without
>>>> eyes even is a tremendous asset to my travel, in fact to most
>>>> fasits of mobility, and my life in general.
>>>> Please don't see this as an attack. I'm just befuddled.
>>>> Car 09:24 AM 2/11/2013, justin williams wrote:
>>>>> I can't figure out a good work around as of yet. I really don't
>>>>> want everyone to hear the clicking. I believe in keeping your
>>>>> abilities hidden.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Sportsandrec [mailto:sportsandrec-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf Of Carly Mihalakis
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 4:57 PM
>>>>> To: Sports and Recreation for the Blind Discussion List; 'Sports
>>>>> and Recreation for the Blind Discussion List'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Sportsandrec] Blind skateboarder
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi, Jody,
>>>>>
>>>>> In an event that no one has yet answered, you sort of slide your
>>>>> tongue against the roof of your mouth, in the way that some people
>>>>> make a little noise while they are absent mindedly, pondering
>>>>> something. I have successfully made any type of similar sound,
>>>>> functioning as a sort of tongue click, but a little less obvious,
>>>>> something that I can only perceive.
>>>>> Play
>>>>> with it, you can use anything to offer the same feedback about
>>>>> which you are looking device to offer similar effects of a tongue
>>>>> click, such as drawing in some breath between your top teeth. That
>>>>> also works very well in situations where one must be quiet, as
>>>>> they try to navigate.
>>>>> Car
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> JUSTIN LOUCHART
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 7:59 PM
>>>>>> To: Sports and Recreation for the Blind Discussion List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Sportsandrec] Blind skateboarder
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi, Jody,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ben's echolocation ability was quite good, but by no means unique.
>>>>>> Virtually anyone can learn flash sonar to that degree. It simply
>>>>>> takes diligence. It's easier than you might think; just most
>>>>>> people don't ever have training in it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Justin Louchart
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/10/13, Jody Ianuzzi<jody at thewhitehats.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have been offline for a week so this may be old news. Ben
>>>>>>> Underwood had a remarkable echolocation ability.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am sad to say he died a few years ago at only 16 years old.
>>>>>>> His blindness was caused by cancer of the retina and his eyes
>>>>>>> were removed when he was 2.
>>>>>>> Unfortunately the cancer returned and he died of brain cancer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> JODY
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Justin Louchart
>>>>>> JALOUCHART at GMAIL.COM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Inveniam Viam Aut Faciam
>>>>>>
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--
Justin Louchart
JALOUCHART at GMAIL.COM
"I have preferences, but my happiness doesn't depend upon fulfilling them."
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