[Sportsandrec] echo location was blind skateboarder

Thu Feb 14 16:17:12 UTC 2013

I'm impressed.  

-----Original Message-----
From: Sportsandrec [mailto:sportsandrec-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
JUSTIN LOUCHART
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 10:32 AM
To: Sports and Recreation for the Blind Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Sportsandrec] echo location was blind skateboarder

Hello, Julie,

We go to our students. For instance I'll be in Colorado in two weeks,
then I'm in Indiana, then Wisconsin, then California, and then I think
I'm in Belgium, Italy, and possibly Australia. Daniel's currently in
Australia, but he's back and forth between something like 30 countries
a year. We have several instructors and several more interns, and our
geography is always changing.

The wind makes things more difficult, but not actually very difficult
at all on the grand scheme. Now, 40 miles an hour might be a little
more tough than a pleasant breeze, but you'd quickly learn to adapt
your clicking technique and your listening technique to manage. I
don't think I would go mountain biking with especially heavy wind, but
I would go hiking in forests or mountains without a problem. The extra
wind would just make it hard to hear enough to ride a bike at fast
speeds on that sort of terrain. Granted, there's always the
possibility that I'd find out that with more experience, maybe it's
easier than I anticipate.

I love the perceptual mobility approach. When recently I had a medical
problem and the doctors brought up enucleation, or surgical removal of
the eyes, I didn't hesitate. I had a little bit of vision left, but I
was certain that I have the skills to acclimate. I knew there would be
a learning curve going from sub-acuity contrast vision to absolutely
nothing, but I was up for the challenge. Honestly, I've enjoyed it.
And I'm not convinced I'd have that confidence if I hadn't first
learned flash sonar and the other parts of the approach.

Flash sonar isn't a miracle cure. The first step will always be your
attitudinal awareness of your life and your blindness. If you feel
restricted, then you're restricted. If you feel open, curious, and
adventurous, then you can learn to accomplish anything. It all comes
down to goals. If you want to learn to do the impossible, you can
learn it. If you feel like you're just fine the way you are, then
you're probably not interested in expanding from that point.

Speaking frankly, I think a lot of the skepticism regarding what we're
capable of as blind people comes from a poor opinion of blindness in
general. We've been trained to think that being blind is hard. You
know, I have to admit, I'm not convinced that blindness is hard. I
think that being blind and scared is hard, but I don't think that
being blind is hard.

Many countries function in the K through 12 system as a hands on,
sighted guide, wall-trailing approach. You use routes, you use arms,
and one day you get a dog to guide you around obstacles. That's the
model we all were told was the best model out there.

I issue that model a polite and friendly challenge. I believe not in
teaching my students what I think I know, but in teaching them to
teach themselves instead. I try and give my students the skills so
that they never have to use routes or guides, unless they really and
truly feel like it.

Most blind folks seem to use sighted guide because it's easier,
faster, and it's what they've been trained on. I tell my students,
"Autonomy above independence." My students can get through most places
basically as quickly as a sighted person, they're just going to need
to ask about visual signage. My students know how to handle their
anxiety about independently navigating airports and shopping malls. If
they want, they can jump on a bike and go with friends. But they also
know that it's completely fine, if you already have the skills, to go
ahead and take an arm. It's of utmost importance that you have the
skills to do anything you could ever want to do. It's somehow even
more important to be able to teach yourself to be comfortable in new
places and new situations. But it's less important to refuse sighted
assistance simply on the grounds of a non-sighted bias.

What I'm saying here is that perceptual mobility gave me options. Not
pretend options, like telling me what to do and when to do it because
it's been done that way for sixty years, but real, true options.
Options to take the ascription or not depending upon my mood that day.
Which is a wonderful and irrefutable freedom.

Forewarning, I'm going to digress a little here. Please bear with me.

I met a very competent blind person once who grew up sighted and went
blind as an adult. Mentally he was all there, and he was very attached
to his independence, but he said on more than one occasion that he
couldn't do things he dreamed of doing because he's blind. He said the
words, "I can't do that, I'm blind," even though I know full well that
he could've done those tasks and more if given the right sense of
freedom. But it just wasn't there. He just didn't have those
non-visual skills. I think about that a lot when interacting with my
students. What are they going through, and what have their
circumstances made them believe about themselves?

I think it's those myths we've grown to believe about ourselves which
are the most dangerous. I'm very careful to not call vision good and
blindness bad. I never say that a student has good enough vision to do
something, or their vision is too bad to do something else. I always
frame it from a place of true neutrality. Vision isn't good, and a
lack of vision isn't bad. And yet this language permeates blindness
culture. You see in everything from self-help books to instructional
documentation and conversation, over and over again, sighted and blind
people alike calling vision good and the lack of vision bad. They
don't even realize they're doing it. That represents a huge slam to
true autonomy in my mind. How can we as blind people expect ourselves
to ride skateboards or go mountain biking if we're so deeply embedded
with these negative frameworks?

I always smile a little bit when I see blind people openly
discouraging other blind people from clicking. They say it'll make us
look weird. That it'll make us socially unacceptable. Really? We
actually believe as a culture that you look weird doing what everyone
else does, and striving for the same goals as our peers? That doesn't
make much sense to me.

I believe in having options and in giving those options to my
students. Autonomy above independence. If you have the skills, the
choice is always yours. If you don't have the skills, you really don't
have a choice.

Justin

On 2/15/13, Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com> wrote:
> Justin L.,
>
> Thank you!  This makes a lot of sense and is very useful.  I think I
> have missed a lot of this discussion because I thought people were still
> talking about skateboarding, which I have absolutely no interest in.
>
> So where do you teach this stuff? Do you travel and do weekend workshops
> or do blind people travel to you?  I am very interested in learning this
> skill.  I use some very basic echolocation skills, but nowhere near what
> you are telling me is possible.
>
> How does wind and weather conditions affect this ability?  I live in
> Nebraska where it is perpetually windy.  There are days when the wind is
> blowing 40mph and I can't hear anything but the wind.
>
> Also, I am primarily a guide dog user so the cane tap method isn't going
> to be any sort of useful to me.  My dog makes course corrections further
> in advance of any of my other dogs.  I appreciate his thoughtfulness and
> planning, but if I was more aware of why he is wanting to do what he is
> suggesting to me, it would be a huge help.  There are times that he
> wants to take a detour, but I insist that we continue only to find out
> two driveways down that people are moving and there is a van parked
> across the sidewalk and stuff everywhere, making it impossible to go
> by.   We end up backtracking and making the turn he suggested in the
> first place.
>
> Thank you again for the excellent explanation of what is possible.   I
> honestly had no idea.
> Julie
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2/15/2013 7:38 AM, JUSTIN LOUCHART wrote:
>> Hello, Everyone,
>>
>> I'm going to point out that there are two Justins involved with this
>> conversation. There's Justin Williams, who wants to hide his potential
>> echolocation abilities, and there's me, Justin Louchart, who is an
>> echolocation teacher and strives to make my skills and the skills of
>> others public information available to all interested  parties.
>>
>> Julie, in response to your question about cane taps being used for
>> echolocation, there are two parts to my answer as an educator and as a
>> scientist in the field.
>>
>> First, yes, your cane tap can be used as a relatively bad echolocation
>> signal.
>>
>> Second, emphasis on the relatively bad.
>>
>> The cane tap comes from the ground, hits the target, and reaches the
>> ears. Meaning that all of your images are going to be bent, blurry,
>> and inconsistent. Not only that, but furthermore there is no real aim
>> or directionality in using a cane tap. Next, the cane tap doesn't work
>> on all or even most surfaces. You cannot modulate the volume or the
>> frequency of the cane tap in anywhere near the same way you can a
>> tongue click. Finally, your acuity simply isn't as good with a cane
>> tap, no matter what you do. You won't be able to see the front versus
>> the back of a car with your cane tap from fifteen feet away.
>>
>> It might be worth mentioning that if you're using your cane tap for
>> echolocation, riding a bicycle independently in unknown environments,
>> riding a mountain bike on advanced trails, hiking on your own, doing
>> independent mountain climbing, doing advanced tree climbing, and
>> accomplishing a thousand other independent recreational activities is
>> much less convenient or likely to happen.
>>
>> I have no fear when I travel, no matter what I'm asked to do. Flash
>> sonar and other perceptual mobility techniques give me the options to
>> do anything from walk to the grocery store without running into
>> anything to go bicycling on an unknown street with my students. Flash
>> sonar opened doors for me and for countless others that most blind
>> folks don't even realize are closed to them. If you ask most blind
>> people why they don't go mountain biking, hiking, or why they don't
>> play soccer with sighted peers, they're going to tell you that they
>> don't even want to. Well, how much of their not wanting to is a result
>> of their not thinking it's easy or fun? How much of it is because
>> blindness and people around blindness indicated to them that it's
>> either impossible, or not worth the effort?
>>
>>
>> I don't have to worry about any of that. I see my environment quite
>> similarly to any sighted person, mine just doesn't have color or
>> extremely fine details. I can choose how to navigate an environment
>> usually a block or half a block away, depending on clutter. If you
>> have that preparation, a million things are easier.
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> On 2/15/13, Julie J.<julielj at neb.rr.com>  wrote:
>>> I'm confused as to why you want to hide your abilities?     I don't get
>>> the sense that you are embarrased or that you think it would truly be a
>>> bother to other people.
>>>
>>> Also, doesn't the tap of the cane tip provide a sound from which to use
>>> for echolocation?  Maybe you've discussed this, I don't know.  Again the
>>> subject was about skateboarding so I wasn't reading.
>>>
>>> Very curiously,
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi, Justin,
>>>>
>>>> Well, do ya think most sighted people will be none the wiser about
>>>> what you are doing, unless they know what to be listening for?
>>>> Perhaps, amongst other blind folk, such an ability might be hard to
>>>> conceal, but relax about your treasure. What's the point of hiding it
>>>> when, I'm sure you don't see sighted people concealing the fact that,
>>>> they might be able to ocularly see. For me, seeing without eyes even
>>>> is a tremendous asset to my travel, in fact to most fasits of
>>>> mobility, and my life in general.
>>>> Please don't see this as an attack. I'm just befuddled.
>>>> Car 09:24 AM 2/11/2013, justin williams wrote:
>>>>> I can't figure out a good work around as of yet.  I really don't want
>>>>> everyone to hear the clicking.  I believe in keeping your abilities
>>>>> hidden.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Sportsandrec [mailto:sportsandrec-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>>>> Of
>>>>> Carly Mihalakis
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 4:57 PM
>>>>> To: Sports and Recreation for the Blind Discussion List; 'Sports and
>>>>> Recreation for the Blind Discussion List'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Sportsandrec] Blind skateboarder
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi, Jody,
>>>>>
>>>>> In an event that no one has yet answered, you sort of slide your
>>>>> tongue
>>>>> against the roof of your mouth, in the way that some people make a
>>>>> little
>>>>> noise while they are absent mindedly, pondering something. I  have
>>>>> successfully made any type of similar sound, functioning as a sort of
>>>>> tongue
>>>>> click, but a little less obvious, something that I can only perceive.
>>>>> Play
>>>>> with it, you can use anything to offer the same feedback about which
>>>>> you are
>>>>> looking device to offer similar  effects of a tongue click, such as
>>>>> drawing
>>>>> in some breath between your top teeth. That also works very well in
>>>>> situations where one must be quiet, as they try to navigate.
>>>>> Car
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> JUSTIN LOUCHART
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 7:59 PM
>>>>>> To: Sports and Recreation for the Blind Discussion List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Sportsandrec] Blind skateboarder
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi, Jody,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ben's echolocation ability was quite good, but by no means unique.
>>>>>> Virtually anyone can learn flash sonar to that degree. It simply
>>>>>> takes
>>>>>> diligence. It's easier than you might think; just most people don't
>>>>>> ever have training in it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Justin Louchart
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/10/13, Jody Ianuzzi<jody at thewhitehats.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have been offline for a week so this may be old news.  Ben
>>>>>>> Underwood had a remarkable echolocation ability.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am sad to say he died a few years ago at only 16 years old.  His
>>>>>>> blindness was caused by cancer of the retina and his eyes were
>>>>>>> removed when he was 2.
>>>>>>> Unfortunately the cancer returned and he died of brain cancer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> JODY
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Justin Louchart
>>>>>> JALOUCHART at GMAIL.COM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Inveniam Viam Aut Faciam
>>>>>>
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-- 
Justin Louchart
JALOUCHART at GMAIL.COM

"I have preferences, but my happiness doesn't depend upon fulfilling them."

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