[Sportsandrec] echo location was blind skateboarder
Julie J.
julielj at neb.rr.com
Fri Feb 15 16:38:25 UTC 2013
Justin L.,
You are awesome!
I will freely admit that I am one of those people who at one point in my
life thought the clicking thing was weird and obtrusive. That was early
in my blindness when I was just learning to deal with things from a
blindness perspective. I functioned as a sighted person up until my
very late teens. It worked, my vision then was 20/100 or so. then
within about a year I went to around 20/1000.
I think it takes time to adjust and get comfortable with the skills of
blindness. I thought the cane was weird and obtrusive when I first
started using it. I felt like I had a giant neon sign flashing above my
head wherever I went. Years later I felt the same with the dog,
although not as severe. Now though, I don't give a crap what other
people think. I am going to do what works for me and if that is purple
polka dot pants and a guide dog, then I'm totally, completely fine with
that.
I am very comfortable with my blindness. I don't hide it or feel
awkward about it. I think I'm positive about my blindness, my future
and what I can do. However I don't think that means that there isn't
room for more growth. Jeez I'm going survival camping this summer!
*smile* There's always something new to learn, whether you are sighted
or blind.
So this morning I'm sitting here thinking, why is this clicking thing
any more weird than using a cane or a dog? The only answer I can come
up with is, it isn't. It's just as a community of blind people we have
decided that it is. It's like those purple polka dot pants, they are
only weird if we assign the value of weird to them.
I teach goal setting, problem solving, finding personal motivation,
coping with peer pressure and that sort of thing to young people who are
struggling. Just this past week we were talking about possibilities.
there is a story about running a four minute mile. For a long time no
one thought it was possible so no one broke that record. then within a
short time after the first person proved that concept wrong, it was
accomplished by several others. The point is that sometimes we have no
clue what is possible until someone points it out. I don't think this
necessarily comes from a self defeating attitude. It's just that we
haven't thought in that exact direction before.
You wrote: *I think about that a lot when interacting with my
students. What are they going through, and what have their
circumstances made them believe about themselves?*
I think this same thing about the kids I work with. It isn't just
blindness that limits us. I work with kids who are in foster care, on
probation, in trouble with the police, pregnant or in danger of dropping
out of school. I think it is part of the human condition to let our
circumstances limit us. You have to make a decision to be a victim or
allow that challenge to propel you forward into places you never
imagined for yourself. It's hard to do that alone though. When you are
the only one saying, "I can do this." your chances for success go way
down. I think there are four pieces to success.
First you have to want to be successful. You have to make the choice
not to be the victim. Then you have to change the way you think. You
have to tell yourself, I don't know how to do this thing, but I can
learn, instead of I can't. second you have to have the guts to keep
going. You have to accept that you are going to mess up, fall down, and
get bruised, but you have to have the guts to get up and go at it
again. third I think you have to have a purpose. there has to be
something you want more than anything else. something that keeps you
alive inside. Something that you will make the sacrifices necessary,
whatever they are, to make it happen. finally you need support. You
need people who can be cheerleaders, confidants, coaches, mentors or a
drill sergeant if you need that.
So where can I find out more about what you do? Is there a web site?
Julie
On 2/15/2013 9:31 AM, JUSTIN LOUCHART wrote:
> Hello, Julie,
>
>
> We go to our students. For instance I'll be in Colorado in two weeks,
> then I'm in Indiana, then Wisconsin, then California, and then I think
> I'm in Belgium, Italy, and possibly Australia. Daniel's currently in
> Australia, but he's back and forth between something like 30 countries
> a year. We have several instructors and several more interns, and our
> geography is always changing.
>
> The wind makes things more difficult, but not actually very difficult
> at all on the grand scheme. Now, 40 miles an hour might be a little
> more tough than a pleasant breeze, but you'd quickly learn to adapt
> your clicking technique and your listening technique to manage. I
> don't think I would go mountain biking with especially heavy wind, but
> I would go hiking in forests or mountains without a problem. The extra
> wind would just make it hard to hear enough to ride a bike at fast
> speeds on that sort of terrain. Granted, there's always the
> possibility that I'd find out that with more experience, maybe it's
> easier than I anticipate.
>
> I love the perceptual mobility approach. When recently I had a medical
> problem and the doctors brought up enucleation, or surgical removal of
> the eyes, I didn't hesitate. I had a little bit of vision left, but I
> was certain that I have the skills to acclimate. I knew there would be
> a learning curve going from sub-acuity contrast vision to absolutely
> nothing, but I was up for the challenge. Honestly, I've enjoyed it.
> And I'm not convinced I'd have that confidence if I hadn't first
> learned flash sonar and the other parts of the approach.
>
> Flash sonar isn't a miracle cure. The first step will always be your
> attitudinal awareness of your life and your blindness. If you feel
> restricted, then you're restricted. If you feel open, curious, and
> adventurous, then you can learn to accomplish anything. It all comes
> down to goals. If you want to learn to do the impossible, you can
> learn it. If you feel like you're just fine the way you are, then
> you're probably not interested in expanding from that point.
>
> Speaking frankly, I think a lot of the skepticism regarding what we're
> capable of as blind people comes from a poor opinion of blindness in
> general. We've been trained to think that being blind is hard. You
> know, I have to admit, I'm not convinced that blindness is hard. I
> think that being blind and scared is hard, but I don't think that
> being blind is hard.
>
> Many countries function in the K through 12 system as a hands on,
> sighted guide, wall-trailing approach. You use routes, you use arms,
> and one day you get a dog to guide you around obstacles. That's the
> model we all were told was the best model out there.
>
> I issue that model a polite and friendly challenge. I believe not in
> teaching my students what I think I know, but in teaching them to
> teach themselves instead. I try and give my students the skills so
> that they never have to use routes or guides, unless they really and
> truly feel like it.
>
> Most blind folks seem to use sighted guide because it's easier,
> faster, and it's what they've been trained on. I tell my students,
> "Autonomy above independence." My students can get through most places
> basically as quickly as a sighted person, they're just going to need
> to ask about visual signage. My students know how to handle their
> anxiety about independently navigating airports and shopping malls. If
> they want, they can jump on a bike and go with friends. But they also
> know that it's completely fine, if you already have the skills, to go
> ahead and take an arm. It's of utmost importance that you have the
> skills to do anything you could ever want to do. It's somehow even
> more important to be able to teach yourself to be comfortable in new
> places and new situations. But it's less important to refuse sighted
> assistance simply on the grounds of a non-sighted bias.
>
> What I'm saying here is that perceptual mobility gave me options. Not
> pretend options, like telling me what to do and when to do it because
> it's been done that way for sixty years, but real, true options.
> Options to take the ascription or not depending upon my mood that day.
> Which is a wonderful and irrefutable freedom.
>
> Forewarning, I'm going to digress a little here. Please bear with me.
>
> I met a very competent blind person once who grew up sighted and went
> blind as an adult. Mentally he was all there, and he was very attached
> to his independence, but he said on more than one occasion that he
> couldn't do things he dreamed of doing because he's blind. He said the
> words, "I can't do that, I'm blind," even though I know full well that
> he could've done those tasks and more if given the right sense of
> freedom. But it just wasn't there. He just didn't have those
> non-visual skills. I think about that a lot when interacting with my
> students. What are they going through, and what have their
> circumstances made them believe about themselves?
>
> I think it's those myths we've grown to believe about ourselves which
> are the most dangerous. I'm very careful to not call vision good and
> blindness bad. I never say that a student has good enough vision to do
> something, or their vision is too bad to do something else. I always
> frame it from a place of true neutrality. Vision isn't good, and a
> lack of vision isn't bad. And yet this language permeates blindness
> culture. You see in everything from self-help books to instructional
> documentation and conversation, over and over again, sighted and blind
> people alike calling vision good and the lack of vision bad. They
> don't even realize they're doing it. That represents a huge slam to
> true autonomy in my mind. How can we as blind people expect ourselves
> to ride skateboards or go mountain biking if we're so deeply embedded
> with these negative frameworks?
>
> I always smile a little bit when I see blind people openly
> discouraging other blind people from clicking. They say it'll make us
> look weird. That it'll make us socially unacceptable. Really? We
> actually believe as a culture that you look weird doing what everyone
> else does, and striving for the same goals as our peers? That doesn't
> make much sense to me.
>
> I believe in having options and in giving those options to my
> students. Autonomy above independence. If you have the skills, the
> choice is always yours. If you don't have the skills, you really don't
> have a choice.
>
> Justin
>
> On 2/15/13, Julie J.<julielj at neb.rr.com> wrote:
>> Justin L.,
>>
>> Thank you! This makes a lot of sense and is very useful. I think I
>> have missed a lot of this discussion because I thought people were still
>> talking about skateboarding, which I have absolutely no interest in.
>>
>> So where do you teach this stuff? Do you travel and do weekend workshops
>> or do blind people travel to you? I am very interested in learning this
>> skill. I use some very basic echolocation skills, but nowhere near what
>> you are telling me is possible.
>>
>> How does wind and weather conditions affect this ability? I live in
>> Nebraska where it is perpetually windy. There are days when the wind is
>> blowing 40mph and I can't hear anything but the wind.
>>
>> Also, I am primarily a guide dog user so the cane tap method isn't going
>> to be any sort of useful to me. My dog makes course corrections further
>> in advance of any of my other dogs. I appreciate his thoughtfulness and
>> planning, but if I was more aware of why he is wanting to do what he is
>> suggesting to me, it would be a huge help. There are times that he
>> wants to take a detour, but I insist that we continue only to find out
>> two driveways down that people are moving and there is a van parked
>> across the sidewalk and stuff everywhere, making it impossible to go
>> by. We end up backtracking and making the turn he suggested in the
>> first place.
>>
>> Thank you again for the excellent explanation of what is possible. I
>> honestly had no idea.
>> Julie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/15/2013 7:38 AM, JUSTIN LOUCHART wrote:
>>> Hello, Everyone,
>>>
>>> I'm going to point out that there are two Justins involved with this
>>> conversation. There's Justin Williams, who wants to hide his potential
>>> echolocation abilities, and there's me, Justin Louchart, who is an
>>> echolocation teacher and strives to make my skills and the skills of
>>> others public information available to all interested parties.
>>>
>>> Julie, in response to your question about cane taps being used for
>>> echolocation, there are two parts to my answer as an educator and as a
>>> scientist in the field.
>>>
>>> First, yes, your cane tap can be used as a relatively bad echolocation
>>> signal.
>>>
>>> Second, emphasis on the relatively bad.
>>>
>>> The cane tap comes from the ground, hits the target, and reaches the
>>> ears. Meaning that all of your images are going to be bent, blurry,
>>> and inconsistent. Not only that, but furthermore there is no real aim
>>> or directionality in using a cane tap. Next, the cane tap doesn't work
>>> on all or even most surfaces. You cannot modulate the volume or the
>>> frequency of the cane tap in anywhere near the same way you can a
>>> tongue click. Finally, your acuity simply isn't as good with a cane
>>> tap, no matter what you do. You won't be able to see the front versus
>>> the back of a car with your cane tap from fifteen feet away.
>>>
>>> It might be worth mentioning that if you're using your cane tap for
>>> echolocation, riding a bicycle independently in unknown environments,
>>> riding a mountain bike on advanced trails, hiking on your own, doing
>>> independent mountain climbing, doing advanced tree climbing, and
>>> accomplishing a thousand other independent recreational activities is
>>> much less convenient or likely to happen.
>>>
>>> I have no fear when I travel, no matter what I'm asked to do. Flash
>>> sonar and other perceptual mobility techniques give me the options to
>>> do anything from walk to the grocery store without running into
>>> anything to go bicycling on an unknown street with my students. Flash
>>> sonar opened doors for me and for countless others that most blind
>>> folks don't even realize are closed to them. If you ask most blind
>>> people why they don't go mountain biking, hiking, or why they don't
>>> play soccer with sighted peers, they're going to tell you that they
>>> don't even want to. Well, how much of their not wanting to is a result
>>> of their not thinking it's easy or fun? How much of it is because
>>> blindness and people around blindness indicated to them that it's
>>> either impossible, or not worth the effort?
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't have to worry about any of that. I see my environment quite
>>> similarly to any sighted person, mine just doesn't have color or
>>> extremely fine details. I can choose how to navigate an environment
>>> usually a block or half a block away, depending on clutter. If you
>>> have that preparation, a million things are easier.
>>>
>>> Justin
>>>
>>> On 2/15/13, Julie J.<julielj at neb.rr.com> wrote:
>>>> I'm confused as to why you want to hide your abilities? I don't get
>>>> the sense that you are embarrased or that you think it would truly be a
>>>> bother to other people.
>>>>
>>>> Also, doesn't the tap of the cane tip provide a sound from which to use
>>>> for echolocation? Maybe you've discussed this, I don't know. Again the
>>>> subject was about skateboarding so I wasn't reading.
>>>>
>>>> Very curiously,
>>>> Julie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi, Justin,
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, do ya think most sighted people will be none the wiser about
>>>>> what you are doing, unless they know what to be listening for?
>>>>> Perhaps, amongst other blind folk, such an ability might be hard to
>>>>> conceal, but relax about your treasure. What's the point of hiding it
>>>>> when, I'm sure you don't see sighted people concealing the fact that,
>>>>> they might be able to ocularly see. For me, seeing without eyes even
>>>>> is a tremendous asset to my travel, in fact to most fasits of
>>>>> mobility, and my life in general.
>>>>> Please don't see this as an attack. I'm just befuddled.
>>>>> Car 09:24 AM 2/11/2013, justin williams wrote:
>>>>>> I can't figure out a good work around as of yet. I really don't want
>>>>>> everyone to hear the clicking. I believe in keeping your abilities
>>>>>> hidden.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Sportsandrec [mailto:sportsandrec-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>>>>> Of
>>>>>> Carly Mihalakis
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 4:57 PM
>>>>>> To: Sports and Recreation for the Blind Discussion List; 'Sports and
>>>>>> Recreation for the Blind Discussion List'
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Sportsandrec] Blind skateboarder
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi, Jody,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In an event that no one has yet answered, you sort of slide your
>>>>>> tongue
>>>>>> against the roof of your mouth, in the way that some people make a
>>>>>> little
>>>>>> noise while they are absent mindedly, pondering something. I have
>>>>>> successfully made any type of similar sound, functioning as a sort of
>>>>>> tongue
>>>>>> click, but a little less obvious, something that I can only perceive.
>>>>>> Play
>>>>>> with it, you can use anything to offer the same feedback about which
>>>>>> you are
>>>>>> looking device to offer similar effects of a tongue click, such as
>>>>>> drawing
>>>>>> in some breath between your top teeth. That also works very well in
>>>>>> situations where one must be quiet, as they try to navigate.
>>>>>> Car
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> JUSTIN LOUCHART
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 7:59 PM
>>>>>>> To: Sports and Recreation for the Blind Discussion List
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Sportsandrec] Blind skateboarder
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi, Jody,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ben's echolocation ability was quite good, but by no means unique.
>>>>>>> Virtually anyone can learn flash sonar to that degree. It simply
>>>>>>> takes
>>>>>>> diligence. It's easier than you might think; just most people don't
>>>>>>> ever have training in it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Justin Louchart
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/10/13, Jody Ianuzzi<jody at thewhitehats.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have been offline for a week so this may be old news. Ben
>>>>>>>> Underwood had a remarkable echolocation ability.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am sad to say he died a few years ago at only 16 years old. His
>>>>>>>> blindness was caused by cancer of the retina and his eyes were
>>>>>>>> removed when he was 2.
>>>>>>>> Unfortunately the cancer returned and he died of brain cancer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> JODY
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Justin Louchart
>>>>>>> JALOUCHART at GMAIL.COM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Inveniam Viam Aut Faciam
>>>>>>>
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