[stylist] A New Member

Sun Dec 28 02:43:20 UTC 2008

Particularly since California rehab will only pay community college rates
for the first couple years of school. You'd think they never heard of
consumer choice. 

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Shelley J. Alongi
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 6:37 PM
To: NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member

I had a blind rehab counsellor twenty years ago when I was just entering
college. Ultimately I chose not to have rehab pay for my college. Long long
story. The counsellor is still around here somewhere and he had a driver. 
There is at least one rehab counsellor here in Orange County and he's blind
and I can't stand him. His personality doesn't lend itself to being a rehab
counsellor. I choose not to work with agencies. I need a broader
perspective.
Shelley J. Alongi
Your Lifelong Pampered Chef Consultant With Bells On!
Home Office: (714)869-3207
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To read essays on my journey through Metrolink 111 or other interests click
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SJ&alpha=A

updated Dec 7, 2008
----- Original Message -----
From: "Angela fowler" <fowlers at syix.com>
To: "'NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member

> There are a few blind rehab councilors in CA, down south. Don't know how
> many, but they're there.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of David Andrews
> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 5:51 PM
> To: NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>
> We have blind rehab counselors in Minnesota.  We provide them with 
> drivers,
> as needed, a reasonable accommodation.  They are only in the field part of
> the time, so providing the drivers isn't a big deal.
>
> There have been blind counselors for a long time, and if New York has 
> none,
> something is really wrong.
>
> Dave
>
> At 06:40 PM 12/27/2008, you wrote:
>>Every counsellor I've had with the commission for the blind has been
>>sighted.  They are required to drive to their clients.  Obviously blind
>>people cannot fill these roles.  However, in teaching blind people to
>>use adaptive equipment blind individuals do this in facilities for the
>>blind.  I work with other handicaps, mostly mental disabilities, but
>>have never worked with a blind person in rehabilitation.  Yes, we have
>>a blind governor in New York State but he doesn't use adaptive
>>equipment,, walk with a white cane or read braille.  I just keep
>>forging ahead with my own thing.  Judith
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lee Clark"
>><johnlee at clarktouch.com>
>>To: "'NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 6:58 PM
>>Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>>
>>
>>>Judith:
>>>
>>>Deafness is an invisible to most.  Deaf people can spot a deaf person
>>>a mile away with the way their eyes move, but most hearing people
>>>don't know anything until they'[re spoken to but don't respond, or if
>>>they see them signing.
>>>
>>>Blindness is more visible, certainly.
>>>
>>>But more accepted?  Maybe as objects of sexual desire, but other than
>>>that, there's this difference in language.  Blind people speak the
>>>same language with the mainstream.  For this reason, I think blind
>>>people have greater potential for employment.  However, blind
>>>unemployment is far higher than deaf unemployment.
>>>
>>>I think blind people are in higher positions, but deaf people have
>>>more jobs, just not as many in very high positions.  There are several
>>>"industries" suited especially for deaf people.  One is the ASL
>>>teaching industry.  As the second most popular foreign language and
>>>the fastest growing, there are more than twenty thousand ASL teachers in
> the country.
>>>This industry includes performers for ASL videos, writers of ASL
>>>textbooks, tutors, etc.  Then there is the relay services industry.
>>>Text relay, CapTel, and most popular, video relay.  This is a
>>>multi-billion dollar industry and employs many deaf people in
>>>administration, training, and marketing.  A third source of employment
>>>is working for the states, for departments of human services and
>>>commissions and social work and also teaching in the state schools for
>>>the deaf.  You understand, most services provided to the deaf are
>>>provided by deaf people, too.  Not many hearing people are capable or
>>>qualified to teach deaf children, give counseling, train, whatever.
>>>
>>>But outside of these areas and other smaller businesses geared toward
>>>the deaf, they don't have much headway.  We don't have a deaf judge or
>>>a deaf governor, but you've got blind people in those positions.
>>>
>>>I may be wrong but low blind employment may have to do with the fact
>>>blind people are not required for meeting the needs of or providing
>>>services to the blind.  Maybe you've got a good source of employment
>>>in vocational rehabilitation, but to me, it seems there are way too
>>>many sighted teachers, trainers, counselors, and technicians that work
>>>with blind people.  And is the fact that blindness is a great deal
>>>with SSDI a factor for the high unemployment?  Deaf people can only
>>>earn up to eight hundred dollars per month if they want to keep their
>>>SSDI, whereas blind people can earn up to twice that.  So it is more
>>>in the interest for the deaf to seek full time jobs and less in the
> interest for the blind to do the same.
>>>
>>>What do you think?
>>>
>>>John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>On Behalf Of Judith Bron
>>>Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 5:16 PM
>>>To: NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>>>
>>>Could it be that deafness is more acceptable than blindness is that
>>>deaf people don't look different?  In many cases the blind person's
>>>eyes look different from the sighted person's eyes.  Judith
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net>
>>>To: "NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 6:45 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>>>
>>>
>>>>John,
>>>>I understand your perspective and I am writing a novel with a blind
>>>>character, but having grown up trying to be sighted and being taught
>>>>to be
>>>
>>>>sighted, I have information from that world as well and have written
>>>>some fiction with non blind characters, simply to avoid having the
>>>>story be about blindness, when the real point is more complicated as
>>>>well as universal.
>>>>
>>>>I also can't help wondering, especially reading this particular post,
>>>>about the difference between the blind and deaf communities.  If the
>>>>blind
>>>
>>>>community were as large, independent and self-integrated as the deaf
>>>>community and if blindness were as socially acceptable as deafness -- 
>>>>i.e., Marly Maitlin is a superstar and the only blind woman anyone
>>>>knows is Helen Keller who died over fifty years ago, well, perhaps
>>>>there would be a market for blindness-related literature.
>>>>Donna
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>For my bio & to hear clips from The Last Straw:
>>>>http://cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>>>>
>>>>Apple I-Tunes
>>>>
>>>>phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924
>>>>4374
>>>>
>>>>Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind
>>>>www.padnfb.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>John Lee Clark wrote:
>>>>>Shelley:
>>>>>
>>>>>Aside from my six-year run as publisher of my own publishing
>>>>>operation, I have been involved in the publishing world for twelve
>>>>>years.  I've worked with many, many writers, about half of them
>>>>>hearing sighted and the other deaf sighted with a few deafblind.
>>>>>While the quality of the writing always plays a role in whether or
>>>>>not something gets published, the deaf writers'
>>>>>writing from the deaf perspective is always, always an advantage.
>>>>>
>>>>>No, I don't mean one needs to make a conscious effort to write "about"
>>>>>being
>>>>>deaf, in the didactic sense.  Just write about life--love, crime,
>>>>>family, whatever--but through deaf eyes, drawing from the deaf
>>>>>writer's own observations and sensations.  Ha Jin, the well-known
>>>>>writer, made the point in his latest book that there are too many
>>>>>writers who write about stuff they learned in a secondhand fashion,
>>>>>and readers can pick it up, even though they may not be conscious.
>>>>>The writer's describing his or her own genuine observations and
>>>>>experiences for the purpose of describing things
>>>
>>>>>is
>>>>>very important and lends the work with an aura of, a vibe exuding
>>>>>authenticity.
>>>>>
>>>>>So that's one benefit of writing exactly what you know.  Another
>>>>>boon to any writer is any type of outsiderhood.  If you look back on
>>>>>the annals of literature, those who are "different" from the
>>>>>establishment population but don't write from that different
>>>>>perspective don't get published often, or
>>>
>>>>>if
>>>>>they do, their work wears off quickly and they are forgotten.  Take
>>>>>the example of Thomas Caldwell, who was deaf, but wrote as if he
>>>>>wasn't. Who knows him now?  Or take Richard Wright, a wonderful and
>>>>>groundbreaking African American writer.  All of his books are still
>>>>>in print, except one, and that was the only book he wrote about only
>>>>>white people.
>>>>>
>>>>>You understand, there are tens of thousands sighted people writing
>>>>>and trying to get published.  So I cannot imagine any use in adding
>>>>>more of the same types of material to that pot.  There are only a
>>>>>limited number of genres and plots, and they all have been done over
>>>>>and over again.  But if you're blind, and you're privileged to have
>>>>>different sensations and a different touch in your observations,
>>>>>that's quite a blessing and will help your work stand out amidst the
>>>>>awful racket of the same old, same old that editors endure reading
>>>>>through week after week.
>>>>>
>>>>>Now, my deaf writer friends, they all have found their most
>>>>>important and rewarding publishing credits through their deaf
>>>>>material.  Many of them, before they started workring with me, wrote
>>>>>only mainstream stuff, thinking they would have a better chance.
>>>>>Not so.  Take Raymond Luczak: He has written over forty plays, but
>>>>>only twelve with deaf characters. Thirteen
>>>
>>>>>of
>>>>>his plays have been produced.  All twelve deaf plays and one not
>>>>>make up the thirteen, leaving the rest of his "hearing" plays still
>>>>>collecting dust.
>>>>>He
>>>>>has written four novels, only one with deaf characters.  No
>>>>>surprise: The three mainstream works remain unpublished and the deaf
>>>>>one won a prestigious fellowship and also a national first-novel
>>>>>contest and will be coming out soon.  Raymond's "hearing" stuff is
>>>>>good and worthy of publication, but the problem is that there are so
>>>>>many equally good stuff these days, because there are so many
>>>>>well-trained writers from all those MFA programs.
>>>>>Those
>>>>>who get published are the ones with unique voices, original twists,
>>>>>or those who bring to the reader authentic tastes of different
>>>>>worlds.
>>>>>
>>>>>I once got a story from a good deaf writer.  It was about the
>>>>>Titanic. A couple gets separated at the end, the woman rowed away
>>>>>while the man sinks with the ship.  It was wonderfully researched
>>>>>and detailed.  The writing was smooth and luminous.  In all the
>>>>>fundamental areas, it was a superb story.
>>>>>But it was never picked up, and the deaf writer could not understand
>>>>>why not, since it was one of her very best efforts.  The reason, of
>>>>>course, is that the Titanic as the backdrop for a love story has
>>>>>been done to death.
>>>>>It was already worn threadbare even before that movie with Leo and 
>>>>>Kate.
>>>>>But what if the couple was deaf?  They wake up because of the great
>>>>>commotion outside their room sending vibrations to them.  They ask
>>>>>each other what's going on.  Outside their room, they see people
> running.
>>>>>They
>>>>>try to get someone to write to them on a notepad, but they're all
>>>>>panicked.
>>>>>So they have to investigate, and gradually, from all the visual
>>>>>information, they begin to understand.  A sailor tries to put the
>>>>>deaf woman in line for getting on a lifeboat, but she doesn't want
>>>>>to be separated from her husband.  All sorts of misunderstandings,
>>>>>issues, correctives, etc.
>>>>>occur.
>>>>>And at the end, a twist on the classic separation thing: The deaf
>>>>>woman decides to sink with her husband, so strong is their bond with
>>>>>each other
>>>
>>>>>as
>>>>>they come from a small community and the deaf woman cannot imagine
>>>>>venturing out on her own amidst all those hearing strangers.
>>>>>Now, isn't that a much better story?  A blind couple on the Titanic
>>>>>would likewise be much better than the mainstream version and would
>>>>>definitely stand out!
>>>>>
>>>>>Incidentally, some of the hearing writers I've worked with but who
>>>>>have connectins to the Deaf world, they also have found greater
>>>>>success in publishing their work relating to the Deaf world as
>>>>>opposed to their more mainstream fare.  Take Morgan Grayce Willow,
>>>>>an ASL interpreter.  Her biggest book credit is her work on
>>>>>interpreting.  Her most prestigious magazine credit is for her essay
>>>>>"Double Language," about her experiences
>>>
>>>>>as
>>>>>an interpreter.  She has published other stuff, but with much more
>>>>>difficulty and less compensation.  Or take Pia Taavila, a wonderful
>>>>>poet and professor of English, who is the daughter of deaf parents,
>>>>>or a CODA as we call people like her--Children of Deaf Adults.  She
>>>>>has written both mainstream stuff and stuff having to do with her
>>>>>upbringing in a Deaf home and her continued link with the Deaf
>>>>>community.  You guessed it again:
>>>>>Her
>>>>>Deaf-related poems are more readily published and get higher praise.
>>>>>
>>>>>It is not that they can't get published without the deaf material.
>>>>>They can and have.  But it is against greater, much greater odds
>>>>>that they do.
>>>>>Here
>>>>>and there, they are able to be heard, able to be distinguished from
>>>>>the rest clamoring for the same editor's attention.  And it's not
>>>>>that writing from a different perspective will automatically get you
>>>>>published.  The writing still has to be good.  But it is a huge
>>>>>advantage in arresting the editor's attention, curiosity, and
>>>>>interest.
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't know how the deaf writers could possibly try to write
>>>>>mainstream stuff, or how you could avoid writing as a blind writer,
>>>>>but I never could, never wanted to.  It feels fake and contrived to
>>>>>me.  It would take too much effort to pretend, to write about
>>>>>auditory things I never heard, to write visual descriptions of what
>>>>>I have never seen.  I am of the opinion that "'catering" to the
>>>>>mainstream audience is self-defeating, because there are many
>>>>>writers that produce mainstream stuff and it's not like they're
>>>>>"catering" but they're genuine because they ARE mainstream.  I have
>>>>>always written straight from who and what I am.  And I am not
>>>>>complaining about my inability to write mainstream stuff because
>>>>>I've been published in POETRY magazine twice, while there are
>>>>>thousands of poets who can only dream about ever getting there; I've
>>>>>been published in McSWEENEY'S, America's most hip literary journal;
>>>>>I've won all those awards; my work has been broadcast on radio,
>>>>>including on the "Poem of the Day" program on Martha Stewart; I'm
>>>>>being interviewed by someone from The New Yorker right now; I've
>>>>>been a featured poet at an international cultural arts festival, flown
> there
>>>>>first-class and with all expenses paid . . .   so I guess I must be
> doing
>>>>>something right.
>>>>>
>>>>>No, that was not to brag at all.  That was purely to make my point,
>>>>>to make my case for writing from a different angle, and to encourage
>>>>>you and others to try doing that.  Hey, it can't hurt to try, can
>>>>>it?
>>>>>
>>>>>John
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>No virus found in this outgoing message.
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>>>>>1:01 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Writers Division web site:
>>>>>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>>>>><http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>><http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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>>><http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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>>><http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>
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>><http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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