[stylist] A New Member
Judith Bron
jbron at optonline.net
Sun Dec 28 03:28:17 UTC 2008
A lot of things are wrong in New York. No computer has enough memory to
start listing them. Judith
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
To: "NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
> We have blind rehab counselors in Minnesota. We provide them with
> drivers, as needed, a reasonable accommodation. They are only in the
> field part of the time, so providing the drivers isn't a big deal.
>
> There have been blind counselors for a long time, and if New York has
> none, something is really wrong.
>
> Dave
>
> At 06:40 PM 12/27/2008, you wrote:
>>Every counsellor I've had with the commission for the blind has been
>>sighted. They are required to drive to their clients. Obviously blind
>>people cannot fill these roles. However, in teaching blind people to use
>>adaptive equipment blind individuals do this in facilities for the blind.
>>I work with other handicaps, mostly mental disabilities, but have never
>>worked with a blind person in rehabilitation. Yes, we have a blind
>>governor in New York State but he doesn't use adaptive equipment,, walk
>>with a white cane or read braille. I just keep forging ahead with my own
>>thing. Judith
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lee Clark"
>><johnlee at clarktouch.com>
>>To: "'NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 6:58 PM
>>Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>>
>>
>>>Judith:
>>>
>>>Deafness is an invisible to most. Deaf people can spot a deaf person a
>>>mile
>>>away with the way their eyes move, but most hearing people don't know
>>>anything until they'[re spoken to but don't respond, or if they see them
>>>signing.
>>>
>>>Blindness is more visible, certainly.
>>>
>>>But more accepted? Maybe as objects of sexual desire, but other than
>>>that,
>>>there's this difference in language. Blind people speak the same
>>>language
>>>with the mainstream. For this reason, I think blind people have greater
>>>potential for employment. However, blind unemployment is far higher than
>>>deaf unemployment.
>>>
>>>I think blind people are in higher positions, but deaf people have more
>>>jobs, just not as many in very high positions. There are several
>>>"industries" suited especially for deaf people. One is the ASL teaching
>>>industry. As the second most popular foreign language and the fastest
>>>growing, there are more than twenty thousand ASL teachers in the country.
>>>This industry includes performers for ASL videos, writers of ASL
>>>textbooks,
>>>tutors, etc. Then there is the relay services industry. Text relay,
>>>CapTel, and most popular, video relay. This is a multi-billion dollar
>>>industry and employs many deaf people in administration, training, and
>>>marketing. A third source of employment is working for the states, for
>>>departments of human services and commissions and social work and also
>>>teaching in the state schools for the deaf. You understand, most
>>>services
>>>provided to the deaf are provided by deaf people, too. Not many hearing
>>>people are capable or qualified to teach deaf children, give counseling,
>>>train, whatever.
>>>
>>>But outside of these areas and other smaller businesses geared toward the
>>>deaf, they don't have much headway. We don't have a deaf judge or a deaf
>>>governor, but you've got blind people in those positions.
>>>
>>>I may be wrong but low blind employment may have to do with the fact
>>>blind
>>>people are not required for meeting the needs of or providing services to
>>>the blind. Maybe you've got a good source of employment in vocational
>>>rehabilitation, but to me, it seems there are way too many sighted
>>>teachers,
>>>trainers, counselors, and technicians that work with blind people. And
>>>is
>>>the fact that blindness is a great deal with SSDI a factor for the high
>>>unemployment? Deaf people can only earn up to eight hundred dollars per
>>>month if they want to keep their SSDI, whereas blind people can earn up
>>>to
>>>twice that. So it is more in the interest for the deaf to seek full time
>>>jobs and less in the interest for the blind to do the same.
>>>
>>>What do you think?
>>>
>>>John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>Behalf Of Judith Bron
>>>Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 5:16 PM
>>>To: NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List
>>>Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>>>
>>>Could it be that deafness is more acceptable than blindness is that deaf
>>>people don't look different? In many cases the blind person's eyes look
>>>different from the sighted person's eyes. Judith
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net>
>>>To: "NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 6:45 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>>>
>>>
>>>>John,
>>>>I understand your perspective and I am writing a novel with a blind
>>>>character, but having grown up trying to be sighted and being taught to
>>>>be
>>>
>>>>sighted, I have information from that world as well and have written
>>>>some
>>>>fiction with non blind characters, simply to avoid having the story be
>>>>about blindness, when the real point is more complicated as well as
>>>>universal.
>>>>
>>>>I also can't help wondering, especially reading this particular post,
>>>>about the difference between the blind and deaf communities. If the
>>>>blind
>>>
>>>>community were as large, independent and self-integrated as the deaf
>>>>community and if blindness were as socially acceptable as deafness --
>>>>i.e., Marly Maitlin is a superstar and the only blind woman anyone knows
>>>>is Helen Keller who died over fifty years ago, well, perhaps there would
>>>>be a market for blindness-related literature.
>>>>Donna
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>For my bio & to hear clips from The Last Straw:
>>>>http://cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>>>>
>>>>Apple I-Tunes
>>>>
>>>>phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244374
>>>>
>>>>Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind
>>>>www.padnfb.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>John Lee Clark wrote:
>>>>>Shelley:
>>>>>
>>>>>Aside from my six-year run as publisher of my own publishing operation,
>>>>>I
>>>>>have been involved in the publishing world for twelve years. I've
>>>>>worked
>>>>>with many, many writers, about half of them hearing sighted and the
>>>>>other
>>>>>deaf sighted with a few deafblind. While the quality of the writing
>>>>>always
>>>>>plays a role in whether or not something gets published, the deaf
>>>>>writers'
>>>>>writing from the deaf perspective is always, always an advantage.
>>>>>
>>>>>No, I don't mean one needs to make a conscious effort to write "about"
>>>>>being
>>>>>deaf, in the didactic sense. Just write about life--love, crime,
>>>>>family,
>>>>>whatever--but through deaf eyes, drawing from the deaf writer's own
>>>>>observations and sensations. Ha Jin, the well-known writer, made the
>>>>>point
>>>>>in his latest book that there are too many writers who write about
>>>>>stuff
>>>>>they learned in a secondhand fashion, and readers can pick it up, even
>>>>>though they may not be conscious. The writer's describing his or her
>>>>>own
>>>>>genuine observations and experiences for the purpose of describing
>>>>>things
>>>
>>>>>is
>>>>>very important and lends the work with an aura of, a vibe exuding
>>>>>authenticity.
>>>>>
>>>>>So that's one benefit of writing exactly what you know. Another boon
>>>>>to
>>>>>any
>>>>>writer is any type of outsiderhood. If you look back on the annals of
>>>>>literature, those who are "different" from the establishment population
>>>>>but
>>>>>don't write from that different perspective don't get published often,
>>>>>or
>>>
>>>>>if
>>>>>they do, their work wears off quickly and they are forgotten. Take the
>>>>>example of Thomas Caldwell, who was deaf, but wrote as if he wasn't.
>>>>>Who
>>>>>knows him now? Or take Richard Wright, a wonderful and groundbreaking
>>>>>African American writer. All of his books are still in print, except
>>>>>one,
>>>>>and that was the only book he wrote about only white people.
>>>>>
>>>>>You understand, there are tens of thousands sighted people writing and
>>>>>trying to get published. So I cannot imagine any use in adding more of
>>>>>the
>>>>>same types of material to that pot. There are only a limited number of
>>>>>genres and plots, and they all have been done over and over again. But
>>>>>if
>>>>>you're blind, and you're privileged to have different sensations and a
>>>>>different touch in your observations, that's quite a blessing and will
>>>>>help
>>>>>your work stand out amidst the awful racket of the same old, same old
>>>>>that
>>>>>editors endure reading through week after week.
>>>>>
>>>>>Now, my deaf writer friends, they all have found their most important
>>>>>and
>>>>>rewarding publishing credits through their deaf material. Many of
>>>>>them,
>>>>>before they started workring with me, wrote only mainstream stuff,
>>>>>thinking
>>>>>they would have a better chance. Not so. Take Raymond Luczak: He has
>>>>>written over forty plays, but only twelve with deaf characters.
>>>>>Thirteen
>>>
>>>>>of
>>>>>his plays have been produced. All twelve deaf plays and one not make
>>>>>up
>>>>>the
>>>>>thirteen, leaving the rest of his "hearing" plays still collecting
>>>>>dust.
>>>>>He
>>>>>has written four novels, only one with deaf characters. No surprise:
>>>>>The
>>>>>three mainstream works remain unpublished and the deaf one won a
>>>>>prestigious
>>>>>fellowship and also a national first-novel contest and will be coming
>>>>>out
>>>>>soon. Raymond's "hearing" stuff is good and worthy of publication, but
>>>>>the
>>>>>problem is that there are so many equally good stuff these days,
>>>>>because
>>>>>there are so many well-trained writers from all those MFA programs.
>>>>>Those
>>>>>who get published are the ones with unique voices, original twists, or
>>>>>those
>>>>>who bring to the reader authentic tastes of different worlds.
>>>>>
>>>>>I once got a story from a good deaf writer. It was about the Titanic.
>>>>>A
>>>>>couple gets separated at the end, the woman rowed away while the man
>>>>>sinks
>>>>>with the ship. It was wonderfully researched and detailed. The
>>>>>writing
>>>>>was
>>>>>smooth and luminous. In all the fundamental areas, it was a superb
>>>>>story.
>>>>>But it was never picked up, and the deaf writer could not understand
>>>>>why
>>>>>not, since it was one of her very best efforts. The reason, of course,
>>>>>is
>>>>>that the Titanic as the backdrop for a love story has been done to
>>>>>death.
>>>>>It was already worn threadbare even before that movie with Leo and
>>>>>Kate.
>>>>>But what if the couple was deaf? They wake up because of the great
>>>>>commotion outside their room sending vibrations to them. They ask each
>>>>>other what's going on. Outside their room, they see people running.
>>>>>They
>>>>>try to get someone to write to them on a notepad, but they're all
>>>>>panicked.
>>>>>So they have to investigate, and gradually, from all the visual
>>>>>information,
>>>>>they begin to understand. A sailor tries to put the deaf woman in line
>>>>>for
>>>>>getting on a lifeboat, but she doesn't want to be separated from her
>>>>>husband. All sorts of misunderstandings, issues, correctives, etc.
>>>>>occur.
>>>>>And at the end, a twist on the classic separation thing: The deaf woman
>>>>>decides to sink with her husband, so strong is their bond with each
>>>>>other
>>>
>>>>>as
>>>>>they come from a small community and the deaf woman cannot imagine
>>>>>venturing
>>>>>out on her own amidst all those hearing strangers.
>>>>>Now, isn't that a much better story? A blind couple on the Titanic
>>>>>would
>>>>>likewise be much better than the mainstream version and would
>>>>>definitely
>>>>>stand out!
>>>>>
>>>>>Incidentally, some of the hearing writers I've worked with but who have
>>>>>connectins to the Deaf world, they also have found greater success in
>>>>>publishing their work relating to the Deaf world as opposed to their
>>>>>more
>>>>>mainstream fare. Take Morgan Grayce Willow, an ASL interpreter. Her
>>>>>biggest book credit is her work on interpreting. Her most prestigious
>>>>>magazine credit is for her essay "Double Language," about her
>>>>>experiences
>>>
>>>>>as
>>>>>an interpreter. She has published other stuff, but with much more
>>>>>difficulty and less compensation. Or take Pia Taavila, a wonderful
>>>>>poet
>>>>>and
>>>>>professor of English, who is the daughter of deaf parents, or a CODA as
>>>>>we
>>>>>call people like her--Children of Deaf Adults. She has written both
>>>>>mainstream stuff and stuff having to do with her upbringing in a Deaf
>>>>>home
>>>>>and her continued link with the Deaf community. You guessed it again:
>>>>>Her
>>>>>Deaf-related poems are more readily published and get higher praise.
>>>>>
>>>>>It is not that they can't get published without the deaf material.
>>>>>They
>>>>>can
>>>>>and have. But it is against greater, much greater odds that they do.
>>>>>Here
>>>>>and there, they are able to be heard, able to be distinguished from the
>>>>>rest
>>>>>clamoring for the same editor's attention. And it's not that writing
>>>>>from a
>>>>>different perspective will automatically get you published. The
>>>>>writing
>>>>>still has to be good. But it is a huge advantage in arresting the
>>>>>editor's
>>>>>attention, curiosity, and interest.
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't know how the deaf writers could possibly try to write
>>>>>mainstream
>>>>>stuff, or how you could avoid writing as a blind writer, but I never
>>>>>could,
>>>>>never wanted to. It feels fake and contrived to me. It would take too
>>>>>much
>>>>>effort to pretend, to write about auditory things I never heard, to
>>>>>write
>>>>>visual descriptions of what I have never seen. I am of the opinion
>>>>>that
>>>>>"'catering" to the mainstream audience is self-defeating, because there
>>>>>are
>>>>>many writers that produce mainstream stuff and it's not like they're
>>>>>"catering" but they're genuine because they ARE mainstream. I have
>>>>>always
>>>>>written straight from who and what I am. And I am not complaining
>>>>>about
>>>>>my
>>>>>inability to write mainstream stuff because I've been published in
>>>>>POETRY
>>>>>magazine twice, while there are thousands of poets who can only dream
>>>>>about
>>>>>ever getting there; I've been published in McSWEENEY'S, America's most
>>>>>hip
>>>>>literary journal; I've won all those awards; my work has been broadcast
>>>>>on
>>>>>radio, including on the "Poem of the Day" program on Martha Stewart;
>>>>>I'm
>>>>>being interviewed by someone from The New Yorker right now; I've been a
>>>>>featured poet at an international cultural arts festival, flown there
>>>>>first-class and with all expenses paid . . . so I guess I must be
>>>>>doing
>>>>>something right.
>>>>>
>>>>>No, that was not to brag at all. That was purely to make my point, to
>>>>>make
>>>>>my case for writing from a different angle, and to encourage you and
>>>>>others
>>>>>to try doing that. Hey, it can't hurt to try, can it?
>>>>>
>>>>>John
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>>>>>Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1865 -
>>>>>Release Date: 12/26/2008
>>>>>1:01 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Writers Division web site:
>>>>>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>>>>><http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>>>
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>>>t
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>><http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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>>><http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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>>>_______________________________________________
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>>><http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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>
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