[stylist] A New Member
David Andrews
dandrews at visi.com
Sun Dec 28 22:05:15 UTC 2008
Yes, for many of us, our goal is inclusion in society.
We are a smaller group than deaf and hard of hearing persons, so it
is probably less likely that we would have viable institutions like
colleges. Also, there really isn't a blind culture, in the way that
people talk about deaf culture, and braille isn't a language, in the
way that I suspect ASL is.
Dave
At 01:15 PM 12/28/2008, you wrote:
>Dave:
>
>I am a big fan of segregation with gates. This means the separation is not
>at all complete but at the same time it's not complete integration. I don't
>know what it's like in the blind community or what values you all have, but
>in the deaf community, those who went to public schools and were
>"integrated" invariably, when they are adults, wish they hadn't gone to
>public school but instead to deaf schools.
>
>You understand, those who went to public schools grew up feeling inferior
>and rejected. Many of them would, in a misguided effort to make friends,
>try to act hearing and would try all sorts of unhealthy tactics to try and
>be accepted. Girls, for example, would discover early that giving hearing
>boys sexual favors would get them momentary attention and they can't figure
>out why they always get dumped afterwards. There is a wealth of research
>that shows that deaf children in public schools develop very serious
>psychological problems and are ill-adjusted and "weak."
>
>Because of these problems, they do not do well in life. They're not
>assertive, self-sufficient, etc. Many would start over from square one
>after discovering on their own the deaf community. They'd rebuild
>themselves, build up their self-esteem, etc. and it's only then that they
>start having a real life and to succeed--both in the deaf and hearing
>worlds.
>
>To get the best of both worlds, a balancing act between the two doesn't
>work--it is too stressful and rife with failures. Nor does trying to
>integrate completely in the hearing world work, because deaf people just
>aren't hearing people and their trying to be is actually very
>counterproductive. The more they try, the more disappointing the results
>and the more the hearing reject them. What works is for the deaf to have
>their own home base where they belong completely and are at complete ease,
>and then they are also guests of the hearing world. As guests, they don't
>try to be hearing or like them, don't try to downplay their differences.
>They just are themselves, and as guests, they do get a lot of respect and
>the hearing are usually good and gracious hosts.
>
>The deaf colleges are wonderful not only in giving deaf people a higher
>education, but in helping them start over if they are coming in from public
>schools and hearing families. At those colleges, the public school
>graduates are reborn. Those whwo went to deaf schools simply continue their
>education in the same totally accessible way they've enjoyed at deaf
>schools.
>
>Did having those deaf colleges result in a deaf ghetto? No. There is no
>such thing. The result is that most of them are confident and strong
>individuals, and it is extremely difficult for hearing people to manipulate
>them. Those who never went to deaf schools or deaf colleges are like, you
>know, Uncle Toms, like Oreos, black on the outside, but white inside.
>They're pushovers, for the most part.
>
>Don't get me wrong. The mainstream has its uses, and it's good to be mobile
>in it, to work in it, and to milk it for resources such as income and
>clothes and such. But because the deaf have a complete, highly-developed
>culture, they don't need to "belong" elsewhere, and being part of the
>mainstream just isn't desirable. And I am in line with it, because, to be
>honest with you, American mainstream culture leaves a great deal to be
>desired.
>
>Now, I don't know what blind people's values are. From your message, it
>seems you are against any sort of segregation. Does that mean your goal is
>inclusion in mainstream society?
>
>John
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>Behalf Of David Andrews
>Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 10:45 PM
>To: NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>
>The notion of having a "blind college" seems to be a mixed bag at
>best, to me. It smacks of segregation, the blind ghetto, and doesn't
>seem like progress to me. We have to live in a sighted world, so
>that sort of segregation is only putting off the inevitable.
>
>I understand, for whatever it is worth, that the deaf marry within
>their own community more then any other disability group. I presume
>it is a communication thing. While deaf persons "appear" to be more
>"normal" than blind persons, the communication thing is a huge barrier.
>
>Dave
>
>At 09:07 PM 12/27/2008, you wrote:
> >Yeah, there are blind counselors.
> >
> >But my previous point was that, in the deaf community, the employment of
> >deaf people is absolutely necessary in many, many fields. Take group homes
> >for mentally ill deaf people. Having deaf residential staff and social
> >workers is an absolute requirement. Only very, very few hearing people are
> >capable. Or take marketing a new videophone model to deaf consumers. I am
> >willing to bet that one hundred percent of the marketing staff at all the
> >video relay services companies are deaf. Deaf people can tell right off if
> >you're hearing, and that makies it automatically harder to sell.
> >
> >But it seems to me in the blind fields, not many of them are controlled
> >through and through by blind people themselves. Let me ask you: Why not?
> >
> >The deaf community also has four colleges predominatly populated by deaf
> >students. As far as I know, there is no college that is all blind or even
> >mostly blind. Why not? Wouldn't it be cool if there was one?
> >
> >I don't know if this is true, but I recall my deafblind friend Rod
>Macdonald
> >joking that his local blind chapter should be called the Association of
> >Vending Machine Operators. I gather that most of its members, if they have
> >a job, work in the vending machine industry. Is this the number one
> >employer of blind people? If not, what is?
> >
> >The number one source of employment for deafblind people is their own
> >language, ASL. So they have a very safe hold on that!
> >
> >As for deafblind people, the unemployment is unbelievably high. But things
> >are slowly changing as the telecommunications industry opens up to them.
> >
> >John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >Behalf Of David Andrews
> >Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 7:51 PM
> >To: NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List
> >Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
> >
> >We have blind rehab counselors in Minnesota. We provide them with
> >drivers, as needed, a reasonable accommodation. They are only in the
> >field part of the time, so providing the drivers isn't a big deal.
> >
> >There have been blind counselors for a long time, and if New York has
> >none, something is really wrong.
> >
> >Dave
> >
> >At 06:40 PM 12/27/2008, you wrote:
> > >Every counsellor I've had with the commission for the blind has been
> > >sighted. They are required to drive to their clients. Obviously
> > >blind people cannot fill these roles. However, in teaching blind
> > >people to use adaptive equipment blind individuals do this in
> > >facilities for the blind. I work with other handicaps, mostly
> > >mental disabilities, but have never worked with a blind person in
> > >rehabilitation. Yes, we have a blind governor in New York State but
> > >he doesn't use adaptive equipment,, walk with a white cane or read
> > >braille. I just keep forging ahead with my own thing. Judith
> > >----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lee Clark"
> ><johnlee at clarktouch.com>
> > >To: "'NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> > >Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 6:58 PM
> > >Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
> > >
> > >
> > >>Judith:
> > >>
> > >>Deafness is an invisible to most. Deaf people can spot a deaf person a
> >mile
> > >>away with the way their eyes move, but most hearing people don't know
> > >>anything until they'[re spoken to but don't respond, or if they see them
> > >>signing.
> > >>
> > >>Blindness is more visible, certainly.
> > >>
> > >>But more accepted? Maybe as objects of sexual desire, but other than
> >that,
> > >>there's this difference in language. Blind people speak the same
>language
> > >>with the mainstream. For this reason, I think blind people have greater
> > >>potential for employment. However, blind unemployment is far higher
>than
> > >>deaf unemployment.
> > >>
> > >>I think blind people are in higher positions, but deaf people have more
> > >>jobs, just not as many in very high positions. There are several
> > >>"industries" suited especially for deaf people. One is the ASL teaching
> > >>industry. As the second most popular foreign language and the fastest
> > >>growing, there are more than twenty thousand ASL teachers in the
>country.
> > >>This industry includes performers for ASL videos, writers of ASL
> >textbooks,
> > >>tutors, etc. Then there is the relay services industry. Text relay,
> > >>CapTel, and most popular, video relay. This is a multi-billion dollar
> > >>industry and employs many deaf people in administration, training, and
> > >>marketing. A third source of employment is working for the states, for
> > >>departments of human services and commissions and social work and also
> > >>teaching in the state schools for the deaf. You understand, most
>services
> > >>provided to the deaf are provided by deaf people, too. Not many hearing
> > >>people are capable or qualified to teach deaf children, give counseling,
> > >>train, whatever.
> > >>
> > >>But outside of these areas and other smaller businesses geared toward
>the
> > >>deaf, they don't have much headway. We don't have a deaf judge or a
>deaf
> > >>governor, but you've got blind people in those positions.
> > >>
> > >>I may be wrong but low blind employment may have to do with the fact
>blind
> > >>people are not required for meeting the needs of or providing services
>to
> > >>the blind. Maybe you've got a good source of employment in vocational
> > >>rehabilitation, but to me, it seems there are way too many sighted
> >teachers,
> > >>trainers, counselors, and technicians that work with blind people. And
>is
> > >>the fact that blindness is a great deal with SSDI a factor for the high
> > >>unemployment? Deaf people can only earn up to eight hundred dollars per
> > >>month if they want to keep their SSDI, whereas blind people can earn up
>to
> > >>twice that. So it is more in the interest for the deaf to seek full
>time
> > >>jobs and less in the interest for the blind to do the same.
> > >>
> > >>What do you think?
> > >>
> > >>John
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>-----Original Message-----
> > >>From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> > >>Behalf Of Judith Bron
> > >>Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 5:16 PM
> > >>To: NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List
> > >>Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
> > >>
> > >>Could it be that deafness is more acceptable than blindness is that deaf
> > >>people don't look different? In many cases the blind person's eyes look
> > >>different from the sighted person's eyes. Judith
> > >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net>
> > >>To: "NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> > >>Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 6:45 PM
> > >>Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>John,
> > >>>I understand your perspective and I am writing a novel with a blind
> > >>>character, but having grown up trying to be sighted and being taught to
> >be
> > >>
> > >>>sighted, I have information from that world as well and have written
>some
> > >>>fiction with non blind characters, simply to avoid having the story be
> > >>>about blindness, when the real point is more complicated as well as
> > >>>universal.
> > >>>
> > >>>I also can't help wondering, especially reading this particular post,
> > >>>about the difference between the blind and deaf communities. If the
> >blind
> > >>
> > >>>community were as large, independent and self-integrated as the deaf
> > >>>community and if blindness were as socially acceptable as deafness --
> > >>>i.e., Marly Maitlin is a superstar and the only blind woman anyone
>knows
> > >>>is Helen Keller who died over fifty years ago, well, perhaps there
>would
> > >>>be a market for blindness-related literature.
> > >>>Donna
> > >>>
> > >>>--
> > >>>For my bio & to hear clips from The Last Straw:
> > >>>http://cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
> > >>>
> > >>>Apple I-Tunes
> > >>>
> >
> >>>phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244374
> > >>>
> > >>>Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind
> > >>>www.padnfb.org
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>John Lee Clark wrote:
> > >>>>Shelley:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Aside from my six-year run as publisher of my own publishing
>operation,
> >I
> > >>>>have been involved in the publishing world for twelve years. I've
> >worked
> > >>>>with many, many writers, about half of them hearing sighted and the
> >other
> > >>>>deaf sighted with a few deafblind. While the quality of the writing
> > >>>>always
> > >>>>plays a role in whether or not something gets published, the deaf
> > >>>>writers'
> > >>>>writing from the deaf perspective is always, always an advantage.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>No, I don't mean one needs to make a conscious effort to write "about"
> > >>>>being
> > >>>>deaf, in the didactic sense. Just write about life--love, crime,
> >family,
> > >>>>whatever--but through deaf eyes, drawing from the deaf writer's own
> > >>>>observations and sensations. Ha Jin, the well-known writer, made the
> > >>>>point
> > >>>>in his latest book that there are too many writers who write about
>stuff
> > >>>>they learned in a secondhand fashion, and readers can pick it up, even
> > >>>>though they may not be conscious. The writer's describing his or her
> >own
> > >>>>genuine observations and experiences for the purpose of describing
> >things
> > >>
> > >>>>is
> > >>>>very important and lends the work with an aura of, a vibe exuding
> > >>>>authenticity.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>So that's one benefit of writing exactly what you know. Another boon
>to
> > >>>>any
> > >>>>writer is any type of outsiderhood. If you look back on the annals of
> > >>>>literature, those who are "different" from the establishment
>population
> > >>>>but
> > >>>>don't write from that different perspective don't get published often,
> >or
> > >>
> > >>>>if
> > >>>>they do, their work wears off quickly and they are forgotten. Take
>the
> > >>>>example of Thomas Caldwell, who was deaf, but wrote as if he wasn't.
>Who
> > >>>>knows him now? Or take Richard Wright, a wonderful and groundbreaking
> > >>>>African American writer. All of his books are still in print, except
> > >>>>one,
> > >>>>and that was the only book he wrote about only white people.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>You understand, there are tens of thousands sighted people writing and
> > >>>>trying to get published. So I cannot imagine any use in adding more
>of
> > >>>>the
> > >>>>same types of material to that pot. There are only a limited number
>of
> > >>>>genres and plots, and they all have been done over and over again.
>But
> > >>>>if
> > >>>>you're blind, and you're privileged to have different sensations and a
> > >>>>different touch in your observations, that's quite a blessing and will
> > >>>>help
> > >>>>your work stand out amidst the awful racket of the same old, same old
> > >>>>that
> > >>>>editors endure reading through week after week.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Now, my deaf writer friends, they all have found their most important
> >and
> > >>>>rewarding publishing credits through their deaf material. Many of
>them,
> > >>>>before they started workring with me, wrote only mainstream stuff,
> > >>>>thinking
> > >>>>they would have a better chance. Not so. Take Raymond Luczak: He has
> > >>>>written over forty plays, but only twelve with deaf characters.
>Thirteen
> > >>
> > >>>>of
> > >>>>his plays have been produced. All twelve deaf plays and one not make
>up
> > >>>>the
> > >>>>thirteen, leaving the rest of his "hearing" plays still collecting
>dust.
> > >>>>He
> > >>>>has written four novels, only one with deaf characters. No surprise:
> >The
> > >>>>three mainstream works remain unpublished and the deaf one won a
> > >>>>prestigious
> > >>>>fellowship and also a national first-novel contest and will be coming
> >out
> > >>>>soon. Raymond's "hearing" stuff is good and worthy of publication,
>but
> > >>>>the
> > >>>>problem is that there are so many equally good stuff these days,
>because
> > >>>>there are so many well-trained writers from all those MFA programs.
> > >>>>Those
> > >>>>who get published are the ones with unique voices, original twists, or
> > >>>>those
> > >>>>who bring to the reader authentic tastes of different worlds.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>I once got a story from a good deaf writer. It was about the Titanic.
>A
> > >>>>couple gets separated at the end, the woman rowed away while the man
> > >>>>sinks
> > >>>>with the ship. It was wonderfully researched and detailed. The
>writing
> > >>>>was
> > >>>>smooth and luminous. In all the fundamental areas, it was a superb
> > >>>>story.
> > >>>>But it was never picked up, and the deaf writer could not understand
>why
> > >>>>not, since it was one of her very best efforts. The reason, of
>course,
> > >>>>is
> > >>>>that the Titanic as the backdrop for a love story has been done to
> >death.
> > >>>>It was already worn threadbare even before that movie with Leo and
>Kate.
> > >>>>But what if the couple was deaf? They wake up because of the great
> > >>>>commotion outside their room sending vibrations to them. They ask
>each
> > >>>>other what's going on. Outside their room, they see people running.
> > >>>>They
> > >>>>try to get someone to write to them on a notepad, but they're all
> > >>>>panicked.
> > >>>>So they have to investigate, and gradually, from all the visual
> > >>>>information,
> > >>>>they begin to understand. A sailor tries to put the deaf woman in
>line
> > >>>>for
> > >>>>getting on a lifeboat, but she doesn't want to be separated from her
> > >>>>husband. All sorts of misunderstandings, issues, correctives, etc.
> > >>>>occur.
> > >>>>And at the end, a twist on the classic separation thing: The deaf
>woman
> > >>>>decides to sink with her husband, so strong is their bond with each
> >other
> > >>
> > >>>>as
> > >>>>they come from a small community and the deaf woman cannot imagine
> > >>>>venturing
> > >>>>out on her own amidst all those hearing strangers.
> > >>>>Now, isn't that a much better story? A blind couple on the Titanic
> >would
> > >>>>likewise be much better than the mainstream version and would
>definitely
> > >>>>stand out!
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Incidentally, some of the hearing writers I've worked with but who
>have
> > >>>>connectins to the Deaf world, they also have found greater success in
> > >>>>publishing their work relating to the Deaf world as opposed to their
> >more
> > >>>>mainstream fare. Take Morgan Grayce Willow, an ASL interpreter. Her
> > >>>>biggest book credit is her work on interpreting. Her most prestigious
> > >>>>magazine credit is for her essay "Double Language," about her
> >experiences
> > >>
> > >>>>as
> > >>>>an interpreter. She has published other stuff, but with much more
> > >>>>difficulty and less compensation. Or take Pia Taavila, a wonderful
>poet
> > >>>>and
> > >>>>professor of English, who is the daughter of deaf parents, or a CODA
>as
> > >>>>we
> > >>>>call people like her--Children of Deaf Adults. She has written both
> > >>>>mainstream stuff and stuff having to do with her upbringing in a Deaf
> > >>>>home
> > >>>>and her continued link with the Deaf community. You guessed it again:
> > >>>>Her
> > >>>>Deaf-related poems are more readily published and get higher praise.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>It is not that they can't get published without the deaf material.
>They
> > >>>>can
> > >>>>and have. But it is against greater, much greater odds that they do.
> > >>>>Here
> > >>>>and there, they are able to be heard, able to be distinguished from
>the
> > >>>>rest
> > >>>>clamoring for the same editor's attention. And it's not that writing
> > >>>>from a
> > >>>>different perspective will automatically get you published. The
>writing
> > >>>>still has to be good. But it is a huge advantage in arresting the
> > >>>>editor's
> > >>>>attention, curiosity, and interest.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>I don't know how the deaf writers could possibly try to write
>mainstream
> > >>>>stuff, or how you could avoid writing as a blind writer, but I never
> > >>>>could,
> > >>>>never wanted to. It feels fake and contrived to me. It would take
>too
> > >>>>much
> > >>>>effort to pretend, to write about auditory things I never heard, to
> >write
> > >>>>visual descriptions of what I have never seen. I am of the opinion
>that
> > >>>>"'catering" to the mainstream audience is self-defeating, because
>there
> > >>>>are
> > >>>>many writers that produce mainstream stuff and it's not like they're
> > >>>>"catering" but they're genuine because they ARE mainstream. I have
> > >>>>always
> > >>>>written straight from who and what I am. And I am not complaining
>about
> > >>>>my
> > >>>>inability to write mainstream stuff because I've been published in
> >POETRY
> > >>>>magazine twice, while there are thousands of poets who can only dream
> > >>>>about
> > >>>>ever getting there; I've been published in McSWEENEY'S, America's most
> > >>>>hip
> > >>>>literary journal; I've won all those awards; my work has been
>broadcast
> > >>>>on
> > >>>>radio, including on the "Poem of the Day" program on Martha Stewart;
>I'm
> > >>>>being interviewed by someone from The New Yorker right now; I've been
>a
> > >>>>featured poet at an international cultural arts festival, flown there
> > >>>>first-class and with all expenses paid . . . so I guess I must be
> >doing
> > >>>>something right.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>No, that was not to brag at all. That was purely to make my point, to
> > >>>>make
> > >>>>my case for writing from a different angle, and to encourage you and
> > >>>>others
> > >>>>to try doing that. Hey, it can't hurt to try, can it?
> > >>>>
> > >>>>John
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > >>>>Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1865 -
> > >>>>Release Date: 12/26/2008
> > >>>>1:01 PM
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>_______________________________________________
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> > >>Writers Division web site:
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><http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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> > >>
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> >.net
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >Writers Division web site:
> > >http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
><http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> > >
> > >stylist mailing list
> > >stylist at nfbnet.org
> > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >stylist:
> >
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.co
> >m
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >No virus found in this incoming message.
> > >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> > >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1866 - Release Date:
> > >12/27/2008 8:49 PM
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Writers Division web site:
> >http://www.nfb-writers-division.org <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> >
> >stylist mailing list
> >stylist at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >stylist:
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/johnlee%40clarktou
>c
> >h.com
> >
> >No virus found in this incoming message.
> >Checked by AVG.
> >Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1865 - Release Date: 12/26/2008
> >1:01 PM
> >
> >
> >No virus found in this outgoing message.
> >Checked by AVG.
> >Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1865 - Release Date: 12/26/2008
> >1:01 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Writers Division web site:
> >http://www.nfb-writers-division.org <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> >
> >stylist mailing list
> >stylist at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>stylist:
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.co
>m
> >
> >
> >No virus found in this incoming message.
> >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1866 - Release Date:
> >12/27/2008 8:49 PM
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Writers Division web site:
>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
>stylist mailing list
>stylist at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>stylist:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/johnlee%40clarktouc
>h.com
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG.
>Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1865 - Release Date: 12/28/2008
>12:00 AM
>
>
>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>Checked by AVG.
>Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1865 - Release Date: 12/28/2008
>12:00 AM
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Writers Division web site:
>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
>stylist mailing list
>stylist at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for stylist:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1866 - Release Date:
>12/27/2008 8:49 PM
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