[stylist] A New Member
Judith Bron
jbron at optonline.net
Mon Dec 29 02:35:58 UTC 2008
Integration was necessary to make Americans think in a more inclusive
manner. I went to a predominately black school so learned very young that
thinking someone was beneath you because of their skin color never really
was a matter in muy life. We can go into all kinds of reasons why
integration failed but I don't think this is the forum for that. Also, can
we change the subject line for this thread? Judith
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Lee Clark" <johnlee at clarktouch.com>
To: "'NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
> Donna:
>
> You know, when the whole integration thing for blacks and whites in
> schools
> came up in the fifities and sixties, there were a lot of black people who
> were against it. Those came from successful black communities. The
> theologian Thomas Sowell and the novelist Ella Neale Hurston were the
> leading voices against integration, fearing it would destroy black
> societies
> that were doing fine. And they were right. Integration did destroy their
> respective home communities.
>
> But integration was thought to be necessary because there were many poor
> black schools that lacked fair funding and lacked the same resources as
> the
> white schools. But it remains a thorny issue even today, because there
> are
> STILL many predominantly black schools that are strapped for money and
> resources. All of the governmental fixes, all the staggered integration
> systems, all the special forced school transfers--all of that hasn'['t
> done
> any good yet.
>
>>From my own experience, segregation was a blessing. I consider my
>>education
> at the Minnesota State Academy for the Deaf by far a better one than I
> could
> ever get at a public school, even if I was hearing and sighted. If you
> compare the average income of our graduates with the average income of the
> public school alumni, or the percentage of students with Ph.D.s or any
> other
> marker, and if the schools are to get credit for the success of their
> students, MSAD is the way to go.
>
> I did take classes at the nearly school for the blind, for Braille and O
> and
> M, and it was a totally different world. It was a depressing place, and
> there was only one fully blind teacher. I couldn't make sense of that at
> all. The vibe, the dynamics, the environment was very different to me.
> But
> when I visited the Kentucky school for the blind, I found it to be more
> like
> my school. So I guess it can vary from school to school.
>
> Anyway, I think the main theory behind integration is that it was the only
> way to attain equality. Because, you know, segregation didn't do that.
> But
> has integration helped? I am sure it has, to some degree. I guess the
> debate over whether it was a gain or a loss will never end.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Donna Hill
> Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 1:33 PM
> To: NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>
> Dave,
> I agree. Segregation doesn't work for blind people, nor should it be
> expected to.
> Donna
>
> --
> For my bio & to hear clips from The Last Straw:
> http://cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>
> Apple I-Tunes
>
> phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244374
>
> Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind
> www.padnfb.org
>
>
>
>
>
> David Andrews wrote:
>> The notion of having a "blind college" seems to be a mixed bag at
>> best, to me. It smacks of segregation, the blind ghetto, and doesn't
>> seem like progress to me. We have to live in a sighted world, so that
>> sort of segregation is only putting off the inevitable.
>>
>> I understand, for whatever it is worth, that the deaf marry within
>> their own community more then any other disability group. I presume
>> it is a communication thing. While deaf persons "appear" to be more
>> "normal" than blind persons, the communication thing is a huge barrier.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 09:07 PM 12/27/2008, you wrote:
>>> Yeah, there are blind counselors.
>>>
>>> But my previous point was that, in the deaf community, the employment of
>>> deaf people is absolutely necessary in many, many fields. Take group
>>> homes
>>> for mentally ill deaf people. Having deaf residential staff and social
>>> workers is an absolute requirement. Only very, very few hearing
>>> people are
>>> capable. Or take marketing a new videophone model to deaf
>>> consumers. I am
>>> willing to bet that one hundred percent of the marketing staff at all
>>> the
>>> video relay services companies are deaf. Deaf people can tell right
>>> off if
>>> you're hearing, and that makies it automatically harder to sell.
>>>
>>> But it seems to me in the blind fields, not many of them are controlled
>>> through and through by blind people themselves. Let me ask you: Why
>>> not?
>>>
>>> The deaf community also has four colleges predominatly populated by deaf
>>> students. As far as I know, there is no college that is all blind or
>>> even
>>> mostly blind. Why not? Wouldn't it be cool if there was one?
>>>
>>> I don't know if this is true, but I recall my deafblind friend Rod
>>> Macdonald
>>> joking that his local blind chapter should be called the Association of
>>> Vending Machine Operators. I gather that most of its members, if
>>> they have
>>> a job, work in the vending machine industry. Is this the number one
>>> employer of blind people? If not, what is?
>>>
>>> The number one source of employment for deafblind people is their own
>>> language, ASL. So they have a very safe hold on that!
>>>
>>> As for deafblind people, the unemployment is unbelievably high. But
>>> things
>>> are slowly changing as the telecommunications industry opens up to them.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of David Andrews
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 7:51 PM
>>> To: NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>>>
>>> We have blind rehab counselors in Minnesota. We provide them with
>>> drivers, as needed, a reasonable accommodation. They are only in the
>>> field part of the time, so providing the drivers isn't a big deal.
>>>
>>> There have been blind counselors for a long time, and if New York has
>>> none, something is really wrong.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> At 06:40 PM 12/27/2008, you wrote:
>>> >Every counsellor I've had with the commission for the blind has been
>>> >sighted. They are required to drive to their clients. Obviously
>>> >blind people cannot fill these roles. However, in teaching blind
>>> >people to use adaptive equipment blind individuals do this in
>>> >facilities for the blind. I work with other handicaps, mostly
>>> >mental disabilities, but have never worked with a blind person in
>>> >rehabilitation. Yes, we have a blind governor in New York State but
>>> >he doesn't use adaptive equipment,, walk with a white cane or read
>>> >braille. I just keep forging ahead with my own thing. Judith
>>> >----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lee Clark"
>>> <johnlee at clarktouch.com>
>>> >To: "'NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>> >Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 6:58 PM
>>> >Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>Judith:
>>> >>
>>> >>Deafness is an invisible to most. Deaf people can spot a deaf
>>> person a
>>> mile
>>> >>away with the way their eyes move, but most hearing people don't know
>>> >>anything until they'[re spoken to but don't respond, or if they see
>>> them
>>> >>signing.
>>> >>
>>> >>Blindness is more visible, certainly.
>>> >>
>>> >>But more accepted? Maybe as objects of sexual desire, but other than
>>> that,
>>> >>there's this difference in language. Blind people speak the same
>>> language
>>> >>with the mainstream. For this reason, I think blind people have
>>> greater
>>> >>potential for employment. However, blind unemployment is far
>>> higher than
>>> >>deaf unemployment.
>>> >>
>>> >>I think blind people are in higher positions, but deaf people have
>>> more
>>> >>jobs, just not as many in very high positions. There are several
>>> >>"industries" suited especially for deaf people. One is the ASL
>>> teaching
>>> >>industry. As the second most popular foreign language and the fastest
>>> >>growing, there are more than twenty thousand ASL teachers in the
>>> country.
>>> >>This industry includes performers for ASL videos, writers of ASL
>>> textbooks,
>>> >>tutors, etc. Then there is the relay services industry. Text relay,
>>> >>CapTel, and most popular, video relay. This is a multi-billion dollar
>>> >>industry and employs many deaf people in administration, training, and
>>> >>marketing. A third source of employment is working for the states,
>>> for
>>> >>departments of human services and commissions and social work and also
>>> >>teaching in the state schools for the deaf. You understand, most
>>> services
>>> >>provided to the deaf are provided by deaf people, too. Not many
>>> hearing
>>> >>people are capable or qualified to teach deaf children, give
>>> counseling,
>>> >>train, whatever.
>>> >>
>>> >>But outside of these areas and other smaller businesses geared
>>> toward the
>>> >>deaf, they don't have much headway. We don't have a deaf judge or
>>> a deaf
>>> >>governor, but you've got blind people in those positions.
>>> >>
>>> >>I may be wrong but low blind employment may have to do with the
>>> fact blind
>>> >>people are not required for meeting the needs of or providing
>>> services to
>>> >>the blind. Maybe you've got a good source of employment in vocational
>>> >>rehabilitation, but to me, it seems there are way too many sighted
>>> teachers,
>>> >>trainers, counselors, and technicians that work with blind people.
>>> And is
>>> >>the fact that blindness is a great deal with SSDI a factor for the
>>> high
>>> >>unemployment? Deaf people can only earn up to eight hundred
>>> dollars per
>>> >>month if they want to keep their SSDI, whereas blind people can
>>> earn up to
>>> >>twice that. So it is more in the interest for the deaf to seek
>>> full time
>>> >>jobs and less in the interest for the blind to do the same.
>>> >>
>>> >>What do you think?
>>> >>
>>> >>John
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>-----Original Message-----
>>> >>From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> >>Behalf Of Judith Bron
>>> >>Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 5:16 PM
>>> >>To: NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> >>Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>>> >>
>>> >>Could it be that deafness is more acceptable than blindness is that
>>> deaf
>>> >>people don't look different? In many cases the blind person's eyes
>>> look
>>> >>different from the sighted person's eyes. Judith
>>> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net>
>>> >>To: "NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>> >>Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 6:45 PM
>>> >>Subject: Re: [stylist] A New Member
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>>John,
>>> >>>I understand your perspective and I am writing a novel with a blind
>>> >>>character, but having grown up trying to be sighted and being
>>> taught to
>>> be
>>> >>
>>> >>>sighted, I have information from that world as well and have
>>> written some
>>> >>>fiction with non blind characters, simply to avoid having the
>>> story be
>>> >>>about blindness, when the real point is more complicated as well as
>>> >>>universal.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>I also can't help wondering, especially reading this particular post,
>>> >>>about the difference between the blind and deaf communities. If the
>>> blind
>>> >>
>>> >>>community were as large, independent and self-integrated as the deaf
>>> >>>community and if blindness were as socially acceptable as deafness --
>>> >>>i.e., Marly Maitlin is a superstar and the only blind woman anyone
>>> knows
>>> >>>is Helen Keller who died over fifty years ago, well, perhaps there
>>> would
>>> >>>be a market for blindness-related literature.
>>> >>>Donna
>>> >>>
>>> >>>--
>>> >>>For my bio & to hear clips from The Last Straw:
>>> >>>http://cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>>> >>>
>>> >>>Apple I-Tunes
>>> >>>
>>>
>>>>phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244374
>
>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind
>>> >>>www.padnfb.org
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>John Lee Clark wrote:
>>> >>>>Shelley:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>Aside from my six-year run as publisher of my own publishing
>>> operation,
>>> I
>>> >>>>have been involved in the publishing world for twelve years. I've
>>> worked
>>> >>>>with many, many writers, about half of them hearing sighted and the
>>> other
>>> >>>>deaf sighted with a few deafblind. While the quality of the writing
>>> >>>>always
>>> >>>>plays a role in whether or not something gets published, the deaf
>>> >>>>writers'
>>> >>>>writing from the deaf perspective is always, always an advantage.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>No, I don't mean one needs to make a conscious effort to write
>>> "about"
>>> >>>>being
>>> >>>>deaf, in the didactic sense. Just write about life--love, crime,
>>> family,
>>> >>>>whatever--but through deaf eyes, drawing from the deaf writer's own
>>> >>>>observations and sensations. Ha Jin, the well-known writer, made
>>> the
>>> >>>>point
>>> >>>>in his latest book that there are too many writers who write
>>> about stuff
>>> >>>>they learned in a secondhand fashion, and readers can pick it up,
>>> even
>>> >>>>though they may not be conscious. The writer's describing his or
>>> her
>>> own
>>> >>>>genuine observations and experiences for the purpose of describing
>>> things
>>> >>
>>> >>>>is
>>> >>>>very important and lends the work with an aura of, a vibe exuding
>>> >>>>authenticity.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>So that's one benefit of writing exactly what you know. Another
>>> boon to
>>> >>>>any
>>> >>>>writer is any type of outsiderhood. If you look back on the
>>> annals of
>>> >>>>literature, those who are "different" from the establishment
>>> population
>>> >>>>but
>>> >>>>don't write from that different perspective don't get published
>>> often,
>>> or
>>> >>
>>> >>>>if
>>> >>>>they do, their work wears off quickly and they are forgotten.
>>> Take the
>>> >>>>example of Thomas Caldwell, who was deaf, but wrote as if he
>>> wasn't. Who
>>> >>>>knows him now? Or take Richard Wright, a wonderful and
>>> groundbreaking
>>> >>>>African American writer. All of his books are still in print,
>>> except
>>> >>>>one,
>>> >>>>and that was the only book he wrote about only white people.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>You understand, there are tens of thousands sighted people
>>> writing and
>>> >>>>trying to get published. So I cannot imagine any use in adding
>>> more of
>>> >>>>the
>>> >>>>same types of material to that pot. There are only a limited
>>> number of
>>> >>>>genres and plots, and they all have been done over and over
>>> again. But
>>> >>>>if
>>> >>>>you're blind, and you're privileged to have different sensations
>>> and a
>>> >>>>different touch in your observations, that's quite a blessing and
>>> will
>>> >>>>help
>>> >>>>your work stand out amidst the awful racket of the same old, same
>>> old
>>> >>>>that
>>> >>>>editors endure reading through week after week.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>Now, my deaf writer friends, they all have found their most
>>> important
>>> and
>>> >>>>rewarding publishing credits through their deaf material. Many
>>> of them,
>>> >>>>before they started workring with me, wrote only mainstream stuff,
>>> >>>>thinking
>>> >>>>they would have a better chance. Not so. Take Raymond Luczak:
>>> He has
>>> >>>>written over forty plays, but only twelve with deaf characters.
>>> Thirteen
>>> >>
>>> >>>>of
>>> >>>>his plays have been produced. All twelve deaf plays and one not
>>> make up
>>> >>>>the
>>> >>>>thirteen, leaving the rest of his "hearing" plays still
>>> collecting dust.
>>> >>>>He
>>> >>>>has written four novels, only one with deaf characters. No
>>> surprise:
>>> The
>>> >>>>three mainstream works remain unpublished and the deaf one won a
>>> >>>>prestigious
>>> >>>>fellowship and also a national first-novel contest and will be
>>> coming
>>> out
>>> >>>>soon. Raymond's "hearing" stuff is good and worthy of
>>> publication, but
>>> >>>>the
>>> >>>>problem is that there are so many equally good stuff these days,
>>> because
>>> >>>>there are so many well-trained writers from all those MFA programs.
>>> >>>>Those
>>> >>>>who get published are the ones with unique voices, original
>>> twists, or
>>> >>>>those
>>> >>>>who bring to the reader authentic tastes of different worlds.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>I once got a story from a good deaf writer. It was about the
>>> Titanic. A
>>> >>>>couple gets separated at the end, the woman rowed away while the man
>>> >>>>sinks
>>> >>>>with the ship. It was wonderfully researched and detailed. The
>>> writing
>>> >>>>was
>>> >>>>smooth and luminous. In all the fundamental areas, it was a superb
>>> >>>>story.
>>> >>>>But it was never picked up, and the deaf writer could not
>>> understand why
>>> >>>>not, since it was one of her very best efforts. The reason, of
>>> course,
>>> >>>>is
>>> >>>>that the Titanic as the backdrop for a love story has been done to
>>> death.
>>> >>>>It was already worn threadbare even before that movie with Leo
>>> and Kate.
>>> >>>>But what if the couple was deaf? They wake up because of the great
>>> >>>>commotion outside their room sending vibrations to them. They
>>> ask each
>>> >>>>other what's going on. Outside their room, they see people running.
>>> >>>>They
>>> >>>>try to get someone to write to them on a notepad, but they're all
>>> >>>>panicked.
>>> >>>>So they have to investigate, and gradually, from all the visual
>>> >>>>information,
>>> >>>>they begin to understand. A sailor tries to put the deaf woman
>>> in line
>>> >>>>for
>>> >>>>getting on a lifeboat, but she doesn't want to be separated from her
>>> >>>>husband. All sorts of misunderstandings, issues, correctives, etc.
>>> >>>>occur.
>>> >>>>And at the end, a twist on the classic separation thing: The deaf
>>> woman
>>> >>>>decides to sink with her husband, so strong is their bond with each
>>> other
>>> >>
>>> >>>>as
>>> >>>>they come from a small community and the deaf woman cannot imagine
>>> >>>>venturing
>>> >>>>out on her own amidst all those hearing strangers.
>>> >>>>Now, isn't that a much better story? A blind couple on the Titanic
>>> would
>>> >>>>likewise be much better than the mainstream version and would
>>> definitely
>>> >>>>stand out!
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>Incidentally, some of the hearing writers I've worked with but
>>> who have
>>> >>>>connectins to the Deaf world, they also have found greater
>>> success in
>>> >>>>publishing their work relating to the Deaf world as opposed to their
>>> more
>>> >>>>mainstream fare. Take Morgan Grayce Willow, an ASL interpreter.
>>> Her
>>> >>>>biggest book credit is her work on interpreting. Her most
>>> prestigious
>>> >>>>magazine credit is for her essay "Double Language," about her
>>> experiences
>>> >>
>>> >>>>as
>>> >>>>an interpreter. She has published other stuff, but with much more
>>> >>>>difficulty and less compensation. Or take Pia Taavila, a
>>> wonderful poet
>>> >>>>and
>>> >>>>professor of English, who is the daughter of deaf parents, or a
>>> CODA as
>>> >>>>we
>>> >>>>call people like her--Children of Deaf Adults. She has written both
>>> >>>>mainstream stuff and stuff having to do with her upbringing in a
>>> Deaf
>>> >>>>home
>>> >>>>and her continued link with the Deaf community. You guessed it
>>> again:
>>> >>>>Her
>>> >>>>Deaf-related poems are more readily published and get higher praise.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>It is not that they can't get published without the deaf
>>> material. They
>>> >>>>can
>>> >>>>and have. But it is against greater, much greater odds that they
>>> do.
>>> >>>>Here
>>> >>>>and there, they are able to be heard, able to be distinguished
>>> from the
>>> >>>>rest
>>> >>>>clamoring for the same editor's attention. And it's not that
>>> writing
>>> >>>>from a
>>> >>>>different perspective will automatically get you published. The
>>> writing
>>> >>>>still has to be good. But it is a huge advantage in arresting the
>>> >>>>editor's
>>> >>>>attention, curiosity, and interest.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>I don't know how the deaf writers could possibly try to write
>>> mainstream
>>> >>>>stuff, or how you could avoid writing as a blind writer, but I never
>>> >>>>could,
>>> >>>>never wanted to. It feels fake and contrived to me. It would
>>> take too
>>> >>>>much
>>> >>>>effort to pretend, to write about auditory things I never heard, to
>>> write
>>> >>>>visual descriptions of what I have never seen. I am of the
>>> opinion that
>>> >>>>"'catering" to the mainstream audience is self-defeating, because
>>> there
>>> >>>>are
>>> >>>>many writers that produce mainstream stuff and it's not like they're
>>> >>>>"catering" but they're genuine because they ARE mainstream. I have
>>> >>>>always
>>> >>>>written straight from who and what I am. And I am not
>>> complaining about
>>> >>>>my
>>> >>>>inability to write mainstream stuff because I've been published in
>>> POETRY
>>> >>>>magazine twice, while there are thousands of poets who can only
>>> dream
>>> >>>>about
>>> >>>>ever getting there; I've been published in McSWEENEY'S, America's
>>> most
>>> >>>>hip
>>> >>>>literary journal; I've won all those awards; my work has been
>>> broadcast
>>> >>>>on
>>> >>>>radio, including on the "Poem of the Day" program on Martha
>>> Stewart; I'm
>>> >>>>being interviewed by someone from The New Yorker right now; I've
>>> been a
>>> >>>>featured poet at an international cultural arts festival, flown
>>> there
>>> >>>>first-class and with all expenses paid . . . so I guess I must be
>>> doing
>>> >>>>something right.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>No, that was not to brag at all. That was purely to make my
>>> point, to
>>> >>>>make
>>> >>>>my case for writing from a different angle, and to encourage you and
>>> >>>>others
>>> >>>>to try doing that. Hey, it can't hurt to try, can it?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>John
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>>> >>>>Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1865 -
>>> >>>>Release Date: 12/26/2008
>>> >>>>1:01 PM
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>_______________________________________________
>>> >>>>Writers Division web site:
>>> >>>>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>>> >>>><http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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>
>>>
>>> ne
>>> >>t
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
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>>> >>>_______________________________________________
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>>> .n
>>> >>et
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>_______________________________________________
>>> >>Writers Division web site:
>>> >>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>> >>
>>> >>stylist mailing list
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>>> uc
>>> >>h.com
>>> >>
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>>> 12/26/2008
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>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>_______________________________________________
>>> >>Writers Division web site:
>>> >>http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>> >>
>>> >>stylist mailing list
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>
>>>
>>> .net
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >_______________________________________________
>>> >Writers Division web site:
>>> >http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>> >
>>> >stylist mailing list
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>>> stylist:
>>>
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.co
>
>>>
>>> m
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
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>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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>>> stylist:
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/johnlee%40clarktouc
>
>>>
>>> h.com
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG.
>>> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1865 - Release Date:
>>> 12/26/2008
>>> 1:01 PM
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>>> Checked by AVG.
>>> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1865 - Release Date:
>>> 12/26/2008
>>> 1:01 PM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site:
>>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> stylist:
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1866 - Release Date:
>>> 12/27/2008 8:49 PM
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40epix.ne
> t
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386)
>> Database version: 5.11420
>> http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>>
>
>
>
>
> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386)
> Database version: 5.11420
> http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/johnlee%40clarktouc
> h.com
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1865 - Release Date:
> 12/28/2008
> 12:00 AM
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1865 - Release Date:
> 12/28/2008
> 12:00 AM
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/jbron%40optonline.net
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