[stylist] Fantasy and the conservative reader?

Mon Oct 5 22:53:51 UTC 2009

Helene, The problems many experience because of their treatment is wide and 
varied.  You can mention it in writing, but one person can never be 
responsible for mentioning it all.  Again, I think you are trying to do too 
much in your novel.  Judith
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "helene ryles" <dreamavdb at googlemail.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Fantasy and the conservative reader?


>I also agree that disabled people can often achieve a lot more then is
> expected of them.
> I think the abuse that some suffer from probably cause some to suffer
> things such as PTSD which limits them more then their physical
> problems do. I want to show that it's the treatment rather then the
> disability itself that causes disabled problems.
>
> Helene
>
> On 05/10/2009, helene ryles <dreamavdb at googlemail.com> wrote:
>> Barbara: Ok. This isn't a romance. The affair between Vinny and Liza
>> is only a minor detour, but their children have a major role to play
>> later in the book.
>>
>> I don't read much romance as the subject matter fails to interest me 
>> much.
>>
>> Yes I suppose some did creep in while I was first writing this novel
>> since that's how I saw things happen but it can be edited out of the
>> book.
>>
>> Talking of nudity later in the book Liza alows another dragon to draw
>> her in the nude in exchange for help with Nadia. She is drawn sitting
>> on a branch with these papiermachi wings strapped to her back. Will
>> that cause offence?
>>
>> Helene
>>
>> On 05/10/2009, helene ryles <dreamavdb at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> Judith: Thanks for your feedback.
>>> The magic will have to stay in it and the dragon's too. My point in
>>> having them there is to illustrate how none disabled people can became
>>> abnormal in certain places such as a society where dragons are about
>>> and they have wings or they are from a family of witches, thus making
>>> those who can't work magic 'abnormal'. It's a matter of contrast. Like
>>> with the village in Nassoli where deafness is 'normal' since so many
>>> villagers are deaf whereas outside Nassoli it's considered a
>>> disability.
>>>
>>> As to the colour, I chose to make them gray since they would be out of
>>> place in a desert landscape if they were white. People from a country
>>> like Nazdonia would be brown in colour but it would force me to write
>>> about an ethnic group that I didn't know about rather then my own.  So
>>> that's why I made them a differant colour entirely. Since I was hoping
>>> by that, nobody would get offended.
>>>
>>> helene
>>>
>>> On 05/10/2009, Judith Bron <jbron at optonline.net> wrote:
>>>> Barbara, This is why we have to strive to be the best we can be.  There
>>>> are
>>>> people in all kinds of occupations who are physically impaired.  Like
>>>> us,
>>>> they work to overcome their handicap to stand shoulder to shoulder with
>>>> all
>>>> other capable people in the world.  There are blind attorneys, doctors
>>>> and
>>>> other professionals.  There are those who are wheelchair bound who are
>>>> capable of the same things as a totally mobile person.  I know a doctor
>>>> with
>>>> MS who continued in a hospital setting after his diagnosis as a
>>>> diagnostician.  He could have continued as a family practice physician,
>>>> but
>>>> he found it easier to work as a diagnostician.  I also know of a
>>>> fabulous
>>>> doctor who quit his occupation because he could no longer hear with
>>>> certainty the things a doctor pics up with blood pressure and heart
>>>> irregularities.  I'm sorry he quit.  He was one of the best doctors
>>>> around.
>>>> Judith
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Barbara Hammel" <poetlori8 at msn.com>
>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 9:54 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Fantasy and the conservative reader?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Another thing is that people see those of us as less than the people 
>>>>> we
>>>>> are because of the disability.  When white people had black people for
>>>>> slaves, think of what they did when blacks were just property.  Blacks
>>>>> were generally thought to be less of a person, hence making them more
>>>>> animal than human.  Many people think of handicapped people in this
>>>>> way.
>>>>> I would wager a bet that more handicapped people are abused physically
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>> sexually than we know because they only have honest folks to speak up
>>>>> for
>>>>> them.
>>>>> Sex is not and should never have come to be a recreational activity.
>>>>> It
>>>>> was the downfall of the Greek and Roman societies.
>>>>> There is something to be said of the Biblical truth that when nations
>>>>> turn
>>>>>
>>>>> from doing what's right in God's eyes and do what's right in their own
>>>>> eyes, they will fall.
>>>>> Sex has a box where it belongs and should not spill into other things.
>>>>> It
>>>>>
>>>>> is a Pandora's box.
>>>>> Barbara
>>>>>
>>>>> Snow is God's way of reminding us that beauty can be found even in the
>>>>> coldest hearts.
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>> From: "Judith Bron" <jbron at optonline.net>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 8:25 AM
>>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Fantasy and the conservative reader?
>>>>>
>>>>>> Helene, I rather like fantasy.  I enjoyed Harry Potter as an
>>>>>> entertainment form.  Conservatives aren't straight laced folks who
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>> know how to laugh.  One might think we never find anything to laugh
>>>>>> about.  Not true. However, we stand for things that aren't laughing
>>>>>> matters.
>>>>>> Now for your novel.
>>>>>> You are trying to do a lot with your plot, your characterization and
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> message  you are sending to your reader.  The message that deaf blind
>>>>>> people are really people with the same needs and wants as those
>>>>>> without
>>>>>> these impairments is getting lost in your gray skinned characters who
>>>>>> have loving dinasours as pets.  Helene, this is going to sound harsh,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>
>>>>>> perhaps it is. Either your characters are handicapped and their
>>>>>> message
>>>>>> has to get out or they represent fantasy characters with all kinds of
>>>>>> make believe features. Helene, think long and hard about your book.
>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>> afraid your choice right now is either or.   Judith
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "helene ryles" <dreamavdb at googlemail.com>
>>>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 11:31 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [stylist] Fantasy and the conservative reader?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I am getting contradictory advice again regarding my novel.
>>>>>>> Particularly wether on not to remove that last nude bit from chapter
>>>>>>> 14.
>>>>>>> Someone else told me to keep them in because only conservative
>>>>>>> readers
>>>>>>> would object and they wouldn't be interested in my book anyway.
>>>>>>> So I'm interested, particularly from Judith and Barbara who were the
>>>>>>> ones who objected to these scenes, wether they would be interested 
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> fantasy based novels in the first place? Judith did seem interested
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> the beggining.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It helps to know your reader but this is my first novel intended for
>>>>>>> outside views so I'm still finding my feet where my readership is
>>>>>>> concerned.
>>>>>>> I've removed the nude bit as it is not really central to the plot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What do other people think so far?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Helene
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site:
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>>>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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>>>
>>
>
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