[stylist] Fantasy and the conservative reader?

Mon Oct 5 18:13:19 UTC 2009

I also agree that disabled people can often achieve a lot more then is
expected of them.
I think the abuse that some suffer from probably cause some to suffer
things such as PTSD which limits them more then their physical
problems do. I want to show that it's the treatment rather then the
disability itself that causes disabled problems.

Helene

On 05/10/2009, helene ryles <dreamavdb at googlemail.com> wrote:
> Barbara: Ok. This isn't a romance. The affair between Vinny and Liza
> is only a minor detour, but their children have a major role to play
> later in the book.
>
> I don't read much romance as the subject matter fails to interest me much.
>
> Yes I suppose some did creep in while I was first writing this novel
> since that's how I saw things happen but it can be edited out of the
> book.
>
> Talking of nudity later in the book Liza alows another dragon to draw
> her in the nude in exchange for help with Nadia. She is drawn sitting
> on a branch with these papiermachi wings strapped to her back. Will
> that cause offence?
>
> Helene
>
> On 05/10/2009, helene ryles <dreamavdb at googlemail.com> wrote:
>> Judith: Thanks for your feedback.
>> The magic will have to stay in it and the dragon's too. My point in
>> having them there is to illustrate how none disabled people can became
>> abnormal in certain places such as a society where dragons are about
>> and they have wings or they are from a family of witches, thus making
>> those who can't work magic 'abnormal'. It's a matter of contrast. Like
>> with the village in Nassoli where deafness is 'normal' since so many
>> villagers are deaf whereas outside Nassoli it's considered a
>> disability.
>>
>> As to the colour, I chose to make them gray since they would be out of
>> place in a desert landscape if they were white. People from a country
>> like Nazdonia would be brown in colour but it would force me to write
>> about an ethnic group that I didn't know about rather then my own.  So
>> that's why I made them a differant colour entirely. Since I was hoping
>> by that, nobody would get offended.
>>
>> helene
>>
>> On 05/10/2009, Judith Bron <jbron at optonline.net> wrote:
>>> Barbara, This is why we have to strive to be the best we can be.  There
>>> are
>>> people in all kinds of occupations who are physically impaired.  Like
>>> us,
>>> they work to overcome their handicap to stand shoulder to shoulder with
>>> all
>>> other capable people in the world.  There are blind attorneys, doctors
>>> and
>>> other professionals.  There are those who are wheelchair bound who are
>>> capable of the same things as a totally mobile person.  I know a doctor
>>> with
>>> MS who continued in a hospital setting after his diagnosis as a
>>> diagnostician.  He could have continued as a family practice physician,
>>> but
>>> he found it easier to work as a diagnostician.  I also know of a
>>> fabulous
>>> doctor who quit his occupation because he could no longer hear with
>>> certainty the things a doctor pics up with blood pressure and heart
>>> irregularities.  I'm sorry he quit.  He was one of the best doctors
>>> around.
>>> Judith
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Barbara Hammel" <poetlori8 at msn.com>
>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 9:54 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Fantasy and the conservative reader?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Another thing is that people see those of us as less than the people we
>>>> are because of the disability.  When white people had black people for
>>>> slaves, think of what they did when blacks were just property.  Blacks
>>>> were generally thought to be less of a person, hence making them more
>>>> animal than human.  Many people think of handicapped people in this
>>>> way.
>>>> I would wager a bet that more handicapped people are abused physically
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>> sexually than we know because they only have honest folks to speak up
>>>> for
>>>> them.
>>>> Sex is not and should never have come to be a recreational activity.
>>>> It
>>>> was the downfall of the Greek and Roman societies.
>>>> There is something to be said of the Biblical truth that when nations
>>>> turn
>>>>
>>>> from doing what's right in God's eyes and do what's right in their own
>>>> eyes, they will fall.
>>>> Sex has a box where it belongs and should not spill into other things.
>>>> It
>>>>
>>>> is a Pandora's box.
>>>> Barbara
>>>>
>>>> Snow is God's way of reminding us that beauty can be found even in the
>>>> coldest hearts.
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> From: "Judith Bron" <jbron at optonline.net>
>>>> Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 8:25 AM
>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Fantasy and the conservative reader?
>>>>
>>>>> Helene, I rather like fantasy.  I enjoyed Harry Potter as an
>>>>> entertainment form.  Conservatives aren't straight laced folks who
>>>>> don't
>>>>> know how to laugh.  One might think we never find anything to laugh
>>>>> about.  Not true. However, we stand for things that aren't laughing
>>>>> matters.
>>>>> Now for your novel.
>>>>> You are trying to do a lot with your plot, your characterization and
>>>>> the
>>>>> message  you are sending to your reader.  The message that deaf blind
>>>>> people are really people with the same needs and wants as those
>>>>> without
>>>>> these impairments is getting lost in your gray skinned characters who
>>>>> have loving dinasours as pets.  Helene, this is going to sound harsh,
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>> perhaps it is. Either your characters are handicapped and their
>>>>> message
>>>>> has to get out or they represent fantasy characters with all kinds of
>>>>> make believe features. Helene, think long and hard about your book.
>>>>> I'm
>>>>> afraid your choice right now is either or.   Judith
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "helene ryles" <dreamavdb at googlemail.com>
>>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 11:31 PM
>>>>> Subject: [stylist] Fantasy and the conservative reader?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I am getting contradictory advice again regarding my novel.
>>>>>> Particularly wether on not to remove that last nude bit from chapter
>>>>>> 14.
>>>>>> Someone else told me to keep them in because only conservative
>>>>>> readers
>>>>>> would object and they wouldn't be interested in my book anyway.
>>>>>> So I'm interested, particularly from Judith and Barbara who were the
>>>>>> ones who objected to these scenes, wether they would be interested in
>>>>>> fantasy based novels in the first place? Judith did seem interested
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> the beggining.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It helps to know your reader but this is my first novel intended for
>>>>>> outside views so I'm still finding my feet where my readership is
>>>>>> concerned.
>>>>>> I've removed the nude bit as it is not really central to the plot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do other people think so far?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Helene
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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>