[stylist] seeing with your tongue
Joe Orozco
jsorozco at gmail.com
Tue Aug 31 12:55:45 UTC 2010
Lori,
I agree with you. Yet, how boring would it be to go without a little
discussion? (grin)
The aspects you outline are not benefits of blindness. They are adjustment
strategies. For something to be a benefit, it should inspire someone to
acquire the status to gain said benefit, and last I checked, people weren't
wishing to be blind.
1. Reading in the dark is not a direct benefit of being blind, but rather, a
benefit of reading Braille. Sighted people can learn Braille just as
proficiently and could therefore be just as capable of reading in the dark.
2. Functioning in the midst of a power outage is also an acquired adjustment
strategy. Actually, this is a little like saying blind people are better
off in a situation because they can hear better. It's a perceived advantage
based on misconception.
3. Helping other people who are still adjusting is not a beneficial
attribute but rather an empathetic one, since a well-rounded sighted person
could just as easily help people through their acclamation with blindness.
4. How is being affiliated with the NFB putting one at the forefront of
technology? Last I checked, all the NFB did was review other products and
put out press releases praising or rejecting other developments. There does
not appear to be any actual research and development at the Jernigan
Institute. You yourself pointed out that even in the case of the blind
vehicles, the research was being carried out elsewhere.
People like your husband and many others should be commended for their
educational achievements, but these educational achievements had to be
reached because there are no other viable alternatives. No one, blind or
sighted, needs higher education to succeed in life, but choosing not to
pursue higher education significantly closes opportunities for blind people
more than sighted ones. If we're talking benefits, I would argue that on
this point blindness is not a benefit. Given the high price of technology
and the slow method of obtaining access to texts, blindness is actually
disadvantageous.
As to ceasing the development of a fetus on the grounds that it might be
disabled, well, not even I can offer a devil's advocate refutation to that
one. I don't remember reading that comment here, but I agree this is wrong
on multiple levels.
Yours in stirring up the kettle spirit,
Joe
“Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all.”--Sam Ewing
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of loristay
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 7:44 PM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
I've been following some of this incredible discussion. Here
are my thoughts.
First, I have had blind babysitters, and have found them
competent. Second, if a person has always been blind or has
adjusted to blindness, obtaining sight would give them a huge
challenge. Third, there are some benefits to blindness,
providing the blind person has mastered the skills of blindness.
1. Reading in the dark under the covers after lights out
2. Functioning perfectly well when there is a power outage.
My husband tells me he once stationed himself in his
neighborhood and helped sighted people find their homes when
the east coast was blacked out.
3. The ability and privilege of assisting other blind people
who have not adjusted.
4. Being in the forefront of accessible technology (through
the Federation)
If he had not been blind, instead of attending college and
getting his masters, my husband would have had to drop out of
high school to support the family, the way his siblings did.
He is the only one of five who completed high school and
established himself in a career.
There are other things, I suppose. The idea of stopping the
development of a fetus who might be disabled is abominable, and
I am surprised at the person who suggested it. If it had been
done, we'd be missing Homer, and Milton, and Steven
Hawking--Well, maybe not Hawking, though killing a disabled
fetus and killing a disabled person don't seem that different to me!
Be careful what you suggest. You never know who is reading your words.
Lori
On Aug 27, 2010, at 4:37:38 PM, "Anita Adkins"
<aadkins7 at verizon.net> wrote:
From: "Anita Adkins" <aadkins7 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
Date: August 27, 2010 4:37:38 PM EDT
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Hi,
I agree with you. I think it is okay for us to develop
technology or for us
to search for cures for blindness. However, I also believe that
we should
not sit and wait for this to happen, but that we should learn how to
function now. So, learning nonvisual techniques and using them
on a regular
basis is essential for all of us to do until the magical cure
or perfect
piece of technology is available. And, I, too, do not know if I
would want
vision if I could have it. I think of all of the crime and
such, such as
people making out in public on a college campus, that I am
fortunate enough
not to witness because of my blindness preventing me from
seeing it. Also,
part of my personality stems from my being blind, and learning
to live with
vision would be a challenge for me. The benefits would be the
privelige to
have others hold high expectations of me. I could be
automatically trusted
to babysit someone's kids, for instance. In saying that, I want to make
sure to point out that many people do find me competent, but
blindness does
have its little nuissances simply because people who are sighted do not
understand it and are afraid of it. Therefore, they base what
the blind can
do on what they believe they can or cannot do as a blind person. For
example, the manager of my apartment building, who regularly
witnesses me
walking to town, doing laundry, keeping house, and the like, concerns
herself if something in the hall would present an obstacle for
me to fall
over. The only way for her to build confidence, therefore, is
for her to
actually perform tasks nonvisually. If I were sighted, I would
not have to
deal with the nuissance of her treating me as if I were not a competent
traveler. Just some thoughts. Anita
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
To: <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 3:40 PM
Subject: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
> Dear list,
>
> I am not against research such as this product or any other
products. I
> don't think it is wrong for a blind person, whether from
birth or later
> in life, to want to experience sight. Sometimes we ostracize
people who
> make such comments and believe they are "bad" blind people who have a
> bad philosophy, but just because some one wishes to "see"
does not mean
> they are a bad example of a blind person. I too agree that
the world is
> not established for any disabilities, and, though much
progress has been
> made, accommodations and modifications can take time and funds not
> always readily available. So if a disability of any kind can be
> eliminated, then I say continue the research.
>
> Having said all this, I now make this point. I know far too many blind
> people who hear about such technology and sit and wait for the
> technology to catch up and become a product ready for the market.
> Instead of learning the tools and methods currently available to allow
> independence for the blind, they choose to wait for technology and
> science to "cure" them.
>
> I firmly believe that we must understand that we, as blind people,
> currently have every chance to be successful and independent. We talk
> about norms and acceptance, but the real issue is perception. We all
> know the struggle for society to accept us and embrace our abilities
> with open, trusting arms, but far to often this is not the case. Many
> of us have had people doubt our abilities even though we present an
> independent, confident image. Would it be easier to
assimilate into the
> world without a disability, most likely, but again, this is
because the
> established norm is based on not having a disability. So are we any
> closer to having technology or science that eliminates blindness, then
> we are to changing perceptions about blindness?
>
> Personally, and I myself am not sure why I feel this way, do
not care a
> whole lot if a "cure" is ever found, and I truly do not know
if I would
> take it. Hmmm... To be the only blind person in the world! Think of
> all the attention I would get! *smile*
>
> Seriously though, we need to accept our own capabilities and success
> whether or not other means eventual will exist allowing for sight. I
> also don't think it matters what point a person loses their vision, we
> all can learn and utilize tools and methods like Braille and
cane travel
> and be just as efficient, quick and safe as those with sight.
>
> So, I'm not against any research, but I also believe we need to
> understand that sight will not necessarily make life easier, but just
> different.
>
> Bridgit
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of stylist-request at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 12:00 PM
> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
> Subject: stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 47
>
> Send stylist mailing list submissions to
> stylist at nfbnet.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of stylist digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. seeing with your tongue (Allison Nastoff)
> 2. Re: seeing with your tongue (Joe Orozco)
> 3. Writers' division- August Monthly Telephone Gathering
> (Robert Leslie Newman)
> 4. Re: seeing with your tongue (Donna Hill)
> 5. Re: Word Processing question (slery)
> 6. Re: seeing with your tongue (cheryl echevarria)
> 7. Re: seeing with your tongue (Robert Leslie Newman)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 20:47:45 -0500
> From: Allison Nastoff <anastoff at wi.rr.com>
> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
> Message-ID: <79.27.18983.A59177C4 at hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi Everyone,
> Since this list has been talking about technology that would
> allow the blind to drive, I thought it would be interesting to
> start a discussion on a story I saw on yesterday's episode of
> Good Morning America. The story was about technology being
> developed that projects images on to the tongue using electrical
> signals that the blind can feel, which in a sense allows them to
> "see with their tongue". I hope you don't mind me cross posting
> this since it was discussed on another NFB list, but since it was
> off topic for that list, I thought it would be interesting to
> continue the discussion on this list.
> I also wanted to get your opinions because when I was in sixth
> grade, I participated in a research study for this technology at
> a local college when it was very early in its development. I
> dropped out of the study after the first year, and maybe in the
> years since, the technology has improved. But I remember that
> when I was in the study, the strip that I put on to my tongue
> extended from a large machine which sent the electrical
> stimulation to my tongue. This machine was connected to a camera
> which sent the images to a computer, and a board covered with
> cloth to create a white background also had to be set up behind
> the camera. So the point I am trying to make is that this was
> way too much gear to walk around my kitchen or go rock climbing
> with the way the blind participants did in this segment. But it
> also seemed kind of impractical because it was hard to tell what
> the shapes were, even when it came to braille dots which I read
> expertly with my fingers, and I know I can locate objects around
> the kitchen much faster with my fingers. Don't get me wrong.
> The concept of seeing with your tongue is pretty cool, and I
> understand how it could be useful for people like the man
> featured in this video since he went blind as an adult, but since
> I have been blind all of my life, I wonder if investing in this
> kind of technology makes sense, or if it would be more beneficial
> to invest the resources in teaching people to adapt to their
> blindness with the traditional, and I think more efficient way,
> using your fingers, ears and nose, or at least invest in
> technology that restores sight for real, rather than just coming
> up with some weird inefficient contraption to see with their
> tongue. What do you all think? Is there anyone else on this list
> who has participated in research for this kind of technology? If
> so, what were your feelings about it? I am always interested in
> getting other people's perspectives about innovations like this.
> Here is the link to the story.
> http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/helping-blind-people-tongues-1147
> 7360
> Allison Nastoff
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 21:59:04 -0400
> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
> Message-ID: <FFEA8EAB85C54B1F9190B18DE776DFDA at Rufus>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Dude, this for some reason makes me think of Harry Potter. Didn't he
> speak
> snake? (grin) No, in all seriousness though, I think people are
> generally
> well-intentioned in their desire to introduce technology that
could help
> blind people lead more enjoyable lives, but it's up to us to educate
> them on
> striking a balance between what would be useful and what
would be useful
> and
> draw unneeded attention. I can't comment on the concept of seeing
> through
> tasting, but I do believe that no matter where a blind person
is in her
> independence skills, ultimately she would want to be socially
accepted.
> That is, after all, the philosophy of the NFB, to adjust to the
> challenges
> of our environment. While I am vehemently opposed to the cars for the
> blind, I would rather we take the initiative than someone else dictate
> what
> these cars should look like. In my personal opinion, this is also true
> of
> echolocation. It might work for some folks, but even in my socially
> drunken
> days you would have never caught me cruising around clucking like a
> chicken.
>
> Best,
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
> sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Allison Nastoff
> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:48 PM
> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
>
> Hi Everyone,
> Since this list has been talking about technology that would
> allow the blind to drive, I thought it would be interesting to
> start a discussion on a story I saw on yesterday's episode of
> Good Morning America. The story was about technology being
> developed that projects images on to the tongue using electrical
> signals that the blind can feel, which in a sense allows them to
> "see with their tongue". I hope you don't mind me cross posting
> this since it was discussed on another NFB list, but since it was
> off topic for that list, I thought it would be interesting to
> continue the discussion on this list.
> I also wanted to get your opinions because when I was in sixth
> grade, I participated in a research study for this technology at
> a local college when it was very early in its development. I
> dropped out of the study after the first year, and maybe in the
> years since, the technology has improved. But I remember that
> when I was in the study, the strip that I put on to my tongue
> extended from a large machine which sent the electrical
> stimulation to my tongue. This machine was connected to a camera
> which sent the images to a computer, and a board covered with
> cloth to create a white background also had to be set up behind
> the camera. So the point I am trying to make is that this was
> way too much gear to walk around my kitchen or go rock climbing
> with the way the blind participants did in this segment. But it
> also seemed kind of impractical because it was hard to tell what
> the shapes were, even when it came to braille dots which I read
> expertly with my fingers, and I know I can locate objects around
> the kitchen much faster with my fingers. Don't get me wrong.
> The concept of seeing with your tongue is pretty cool, and I
> understand how it could be useful for people like the man
> featured in this video since he went blind as an adult, but since
> I have been blind all of my life, I wonder if investing in this
> kind of technology makes sense, or if it would be more beneficial
> to invest the resources in teaching people to adapt to their
> blindness with the traditional, and I think more efficient way,
> using your fingers, ears and nose, or at least invest in
> technology that restores sight for real, rather than just coming
> up with some weird inefficient contraption to see with their
> tongue. What do you all think? Is there anyone else on this list
> who has participated in research for this kind of technology? If
> so, what were your feelings about it? I am always interested in
> getting other people's perspectives about innovations like this.
> Here is the link to the story.
> http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/helping-blind-people-tongues-1147
> 7360
> Allison Nastoff
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for stylist:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/jsorozc
> o%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 21:28:13 -0500
> From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
> To: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
> Subject: [stylist] Writers' division- August Monthly Telephone
> Gathering
> Message-ID: <E5A80E5C7AC343D1942E3E07E2F2C010 at Newmans>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> RE: August Writers' Division's Telephone Gathering- Sunday August 29th
>
>
>
> this is a reminder- Join in on our monthly telephone gathering and
> interact
> with our guest speaker, Dennis H. R. Sumlin, President of the
Performing
> Arts Division (PAD).(this guy is also a writer and song writer) Let us
> learn
> about the Performing Arts Division; let us ask about what they have to
> offer; who joins and what performing arts are represented in the
> Division;
> how does what we do fit into what PAD's members do; Dennis will answer
> any
> of our questions; he will give us information on how PAD is able to be
> one
> of the only Divisions to offer a college scholarship; and more.
>
>
>
> The time is- 8:30 PM Eastern; 7:30 PM Central; 6:30 PM
Mountain; 5:30 PM
> Pacific.
>
>
>
> The phone number to call is- 218-339-4300
>
>
>
> The code is: 568839# (last character is a number sign)
>
>
>
> (It will be recorded and posted to our website)
>
>
>
> Robert Leslie Newman
>
>
>
> President NFB Writers' division
>
>
>
> Writers' Division Website-
>
>
>
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>
>
>
> Personal Website-
>
>
>
> http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 22:49:54 -0400
> From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
> Message-ID: <4C7727D2.4070406 at epix.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi Allison,
> I think this sort of thing is a double-edged sword. As science, it is
> fascinating, but I personally have a viseral reaction against it. Even
> with no heavy equipment, the idea that we would use such a technique,
> which would seem to have its own social stigma, instead of developing
> other senses like hearing and touch just seems like a re
enforcement of
> the social stereotype that blindness must be so aweful that
people would
>
> jump at something this weird.
> Just my two cents,
> Donna
>
> Read Donna's articles on
> Suite 101:
> www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
> Ezine Articles:
> http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=D._W._Hill
> American Chronicle:
> www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
>
> Connect with Donna on
> Twitter:
> www.twitter.com/dewhill
> LinkedIn:
> www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
> FaceBook:
> www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
>
> Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
> cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
> Apple I-Tunes
>
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
> 4
>
> Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
> Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
> Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
> www.padnfb.org
>
>
> On 8/26/2010 9:47 PM, Allison Nastoff wrote:
>> Hi Everyone,
>> Since this list has been talking about technology that would
allow the
>
>> blind to drive, I thought it would be interesting to start a
>> discussion on a story I saw on yesterday's episode of Good Morning
>> America. The story was about technology being developed that projects
>
>> images on to the tongue using electrical signals that the blind can
>> feel, which in a sense allows them to "see with their tongue". I hope
>
>> you don't mind me cross posting this since it was discussed
on another
>
>> NFB list, but since it was off topic for that list, I
thought it would
>
>> be interesting to continue the discussion on this list.
>> I also wanted to get your opinions because when I was in sixth grade,
>> I participated in a research study for this technology at a local
>> college when it was very early in its development. I dropped out of
>> the study after the first year, and maybe in the years since, the
>> technology has improved. But I remember that when I was in the study,
>
>> the strip that I put on to my tongue extended from a large machine
>> which sent the electrical stimulation to my tongue. This machine was
>> connected to a camera which sent the images to a computer,
and a board
>
>> covered with cloth to create a white background also had to be set up
>> behind the camera. So the point I am trying to make is that this was
>> way too much gear to walk around my kitchen or go rock climbing with
>> the way the blind participants did in this segment. But it also
>> seemed kind of impractical because it was hard to tell what
the shapes
>
>> were, even when it came to braille dots which I read expertly with my
>> fingers, and I know I can locate objects around the kitchen much
>> faster with my fingers. Don't get me wrong. The concept of seeing
>> with your tongue is pretty cool, and I understand how it could be
>> useful for people like the man featured in this video since he went
>> blind as an adult, but since I have been blind all of my life, I
>> wonder if investing in this kind of technology makes sense, or if it
>> would be more beneficial to invest the resources in teaching
people to
>
>> adapt to their blindness with the traditional, and I think more
>> efficient way, using your fingers, ears and nose, or at least invest
>> in technology that restores sight for real, rather than just
coming up
>
>> with some weird inefficient contraption to see with their tongue.
>> What do you all think? Is there anyone else on this list who has
>> participated in research for this kind of technology? If so,
what were
>
>> your feelings about it? I am always interested in getting other
>> people's perspectives about innovations like this. Here is the link
>> to the story.
>> http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/helping-blind-people-tongues-1147
>> 7360
>> Allison Nastoff
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40epi
> x.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
>> Database version: 6.15740
>> http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>>
>
>
>
>
> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 02:01:57 -0400
> From: "slery" <slerythema at insightbb.com>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Word Processing question
> Message-ID: <566ED2B1843D48B394BD8276A5710AD3 at DesktopCindyPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Yes, Joe, that is exactly what I am talking about.
>
> Cindy
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 9:56 AM
>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Word Processing question
>>
>>
>> I'm not Cindy, but I think she may be talking about the
>> formatting styles you can access through Word using Shift +
>> Control + S. There you can pick from a list of formatting
>> styles and modify their appearance so that they affect the
>> document across the board where ever that style is used. For
>> example, I have a title style and a subtitle style. With a
>> couple keystrokes I can make a part of my text fall into that
>> style, and later, if I should change my mind about the size,
>> font, alignment, bold, etc. I can just adjust the style and
>> have it reflect throughout the document without manual
>> adjustments. Hope that helps.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up
>> their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn
>> up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of slery
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 1:47 AM
>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Word Processing question
>>
>>
>> Judith, et al,
>>
>> I am a little under the weather at the moment and this
>> requires a length response to do it. Therefore, I will get
>> back to the list with
>> this answer
>> but not at this moment.
>>
>> Cindy
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> > [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Judith Bron
>> > Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 11:12 AM
>> > To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> > Subject: Re: [stylist] Word Processing question
>> >
>> >
>> > Cindy, How do you set the style? In my manuscript I typed
>> > the words
>> > formatting it to indent the first word of the paragraph by
>> > 0.5 inches. I
>> > sentered the chapter title like Chapter one. I never heard
>> > of what you are
>> > talking about. Can you enlighten us further? Thanks, Judith
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "slery" <slerythema at insightbb.com>
>> > To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> > Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 1:21 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [stylist] Word Processing question
>> >
>> >
>> > > The best way, and the way that copyeditors and publishers
>> > use, are to
>> > > use styles.
>> > >
>> > > Don't format each heading and chapter. Set it to a style,
>> then when
>> > > you define the style (or your publisher changes it), it will be
>> > > applied to all items listed as that style and you don't
>> > have to change
>> > > each and every occurrence.
>> > >
>> > > Cindy
>> > >
>> > >> -----Original Message-----
>> > >> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> > [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> > >> On Behalf Of Judith Bron
>> > >> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 10:33 PM
>> > >> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> > >> Subject: Re: [stylist] Word Processing question
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Donna, I'm also using word 2003 but Jaws 7.1. I don't have those
>> > >> problems. I combine chapters into one document all the
>> time and the
>> > >> font, point size
>> > >> and formatting stay the same. Here's one suggestion. Put
>> > >> all your chapters
>> > >> into one document. When you have the last one in the
>> > >> document select the
>> > >> document, hit control D for font, select the font you want
>> > >> and go through
>> > >> and do to each heading whatever you want. Not an optimum
>> > >> solution, but the
>> > >> only one I can come up with. HTH, Judith
>> > >> ----- Original Message -----
>> > >> From: "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net>
>> > >> To: <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> > >> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 9:58 PM
>> > >> Subject: [stylist] Word Processing question
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> > Hi Guys,
>> > >> > Here's the thing. I'm trying to make one document of all of my
>> > >> > chapters. I've done this many times with the same
>> > frustrations. If
>> > >> > I
>> > >> start with
>> > >> > Chapter 1, put Chapter 2 on the clipboard and paste it into
>> > >> Chapter 1
>> > >> > after inserting a page break, one of 2 things happens.
>> > >> Either the font
>> > >> > changes from 12 pt. Times New Roman to 10 pt. TMNS (or
>> > >> something like
>> > >> > those initials anyway), or the font stays Times New Roman,
>> > >> but the Chapter
>> > >> > title, which I had painstakingly bolded, centered and
>> > >> changed to 14 pt.,
>> > >> > goes back to 12 pt. regular type and aligned left. It
>> > >> always involves a
>> > >> > lot of re formatting.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Is there some easier way to combine documents? I'm using
>> > Word 2003
>> > >> > with Jaws 11.
>> > >> > Thanks,
>> > >> > Donna
>> > >> >
>> > >> > --
>> > >> > Read Donna's articles on
>> > >> > Suite 101:
>> > >> > www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
>> > >> > American Chronicle:
www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Connect with Donna on
>> > >> > Twitter:
>> > >> > www.twitter.com/dewhill
>> > >> > LinkedIn:
>> > >> > www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
>> > >> > FaceBook:
>> > >> > www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at: cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>> > >> > Apple I-Tunes
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> >
>> phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924
>> > >> 4
>> > >> > 374
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project Donna is
>> Head of Media
>> > >> > Relations for the nonprofit Performing Arts Division of the
>> > >> > National
>> > >> Federation of
>> > >> > the Blind:
>> > >> > www.padnfb.org
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > =======
>> > >> > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
>> > >> (Email Guard:
>> > >> > 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.15430)
>> > http://www.pctools.com/
>> > >> > =======
>> > >> >
>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>> > >> > Writers Division web site: http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> > >> > <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>> > >> >
>> > >> > stylist mailing list
>> > >> > stylist at nfbnet.org
>> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> > >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>> > >> account info for
>> > >> > stylist:
>> > >> >
>> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/jbron
>> > > %40optonline.net
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Writers Division web site: http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> > > <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>> > >
>> > > stylist mailing list
>> > > stylist at nfbnet.org
>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>> > account info for
>> > > stylist:
>> > >
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/slery
>> thema%40insigh
>> > tbb.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Writers Division web site: http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> > <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>> >
>> > stylist mailing list
>> > stylist at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>> account info for
>> > stylist:
>> >
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/jbron%4
>> 0optonline.n
>> et
>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>> ema%40insigh
>> tbb.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
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>> info for stylist:
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>> o%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for stylist:
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> thema%40insightbb.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 06:20:59 -0400
> From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
> Message-ID: <BAY110-DS22AD5B495CC953DBB08303A1860 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> my friend and NAGDU member albert rizzi was the one on the program.
>
> The biggest compliment you can pay me is to recommend my services!
>
> Cheryl Echevarria
> Independent Travel Consultant
> C10-10646
>
> http://Echevarriatravel.com
> 1-866-580-5574
> skype: angeldn3
>
> Reservations at echevarriatravel.com
> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
> CST-1018299-10
> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise
and Travel
> Inc.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 10:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
>
>
>> Hi Allison,
>> I think this sort of thing is a double-edged sword. As science, it is
>> fascinating, but I personally have a viseral reaction
against it. Even
>> with no heavy equipment, the idea that we would use such a technique,
>> which would seem to have its own social stigma, instead of developing
>> other senses like hearing and touch just seems like a re enforcement
> of
>> the social stereotype that blindness must be so aweful that people
> would
>> jump at something this weird.
>> Just my two cents,
>> Donna
>>
>> Read Donna's articles on
>> Suite 101:
>> www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill
>> Ezine Articles:
>> http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=D._W._Hill
>> American Chronicle:
>> www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885
>>
>> Connect with Donna on
>> Twitter:
>> www.twitter.com/dewhill
>> LinkedIn:
>> www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99
>> FaceBook:
>> www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill.
>>
>> Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at:
>> cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill
>> Apple I-Tunes
>>
>
phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=25924437
> 4
>>
>> Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project
>> Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit
>> Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind:
>> www.padnfb.org
>>
>>
>> On 8/26/2010 9:47 PM, Allison Nastoff wrote:
>> > Hi Everyone,
>> > Since this list has been talking about technology that would allow
> the
>> > blind to drive, I thought it would be interesting to start a
>> > discussion on a story I saw on yesterday's episode of Good Morning
>> > America. The story was about technology being developed that
> projects
>> > images on to the tongue using electrical signals that the blind can
>> > feel, which in a sense allows them to "see with their tongue". I
> hope
>> > you don't mind me cross posting this since it was discussed on
> another
>> > NFB list, but since it was off topic for that list, I thought it
> would
>> > be interesting to continue the discussion on this list.
>> > I also wanted to get your opinions because when I was in sixth
> grade,
>> > I participated in a research study for this technology at a local
>> > college when it was very early in its development. I dropped out of
>> > the study after the first year, and maybe in the years since, the
>> > technology has improved. But I remember that when I was in the
> study,
>> > the strip that I put on to my tongue extended from a large machine
>> > which sent the electrical stimulation to my tongue. This machine
> was
>> > connected to a camera which sent the images to a computer, and a
> board
>> > covered with cloth to create a white background also had to be set
> up
>> > behind the camera. So the point I am trying to make is that this
> was
>> > way too much gear to walk around my kitchen or go rock
climbing with
>> > the way the blind participants did in this segment. But it also
>> > seemed kind of impractical because it was hard to tell what the
> shapes
>> > were, even when it came to braille dots which I read expertly with
> my
>> > fingers, and I know I can locate objects around the kitchen much
>> > faster with my fingers. Don't get me wrong. The concept of seeing
>> > with your tongue is pretty cool, and I understand how it could be
>> > useful for people like the man featured in this video since he went
>> > blind as an adult, but since I have been blind all of my life, I
>> > wonder if investing in this kind of technology makes
sense, or if it
>> > would be more beneficial to invest the resources in teaching people
> to
>> > adapt to their blindness with the traditional, and I think more
>> > efficient way, using your fingers, ears and nose, or at
least invest
>> > in technology that restores sight for real, rather than just coming
> up
>> > with some weird inefficient contraption to see with their tongue.
>> > What do you all think? Is there anyone else on this list who has
>> > participated in research for this kind of technology? If so, what
> were
>> > your feelings about it? I am always interested in getting other
>> > people's perspectives about innovations like this. Here is the link
>> > to the story.
>> > http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/helping-blind-people-tongues-1147
>> > 7360
>> > Allison Nastoff
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Writers Division web site:
>> > http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
>> > <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>> >
>> > stylist mailing list
>> > stylist at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
>> > stylist:
>> >
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40epi
> x.net
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
>> > Database version: 6.15740
>> > http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514)
>> Database version: 6.15740
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
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>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 05:56:41 -0500
> From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
> Message-ID: <33F7BE1A3D274A40ABD1DCCB94BAE33C at Newmans>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> On this seeing with your tongue thing. Guess I am of the
opinion that if
> there is money out there for research and development of alternative
> sight,
> then go for it. And I say this, tongue in cheek, sight is better than
> being
> blind. --- Hold on with the storm of thoughts words and recriminations
> ---
> I'll just explain my last statement by this super generalizing
> definition-
> This world is setup for the sighted and there are fewer hassles if you
> are
> sighted. And so in saying that "having sight is better than being
> blind,"
> and getting back to the general topic of this thread, I support things
> like
> these experimentation "seeing" projects, though many of them
will be too
> weird and not functional or practical or acceptable for one or more
> reasons.
> Yet, there probably is one or more eventual outcomes that
will be equal
> and
> acceptable to "normal" vision and/or even superior to what we
were born
> with. And I also support any research that could prevent the human
> embryo
> from developing with a medical and/or physical condition that
would upon
> birth be there or develop blindness later in that persons life. And in
> saying all this, in general I'm saying that I am for eliminating all
> human
> abnormalities, be they hereditary or congenital or even cause later in
> life
> by accidents (repairing the broken part or replacing it).
>
> And so, can we successfully live with blindness? I don't feel
I need to
> tell
> you this answer --- you know it and I know it and most of us
believe and
> live it. Again, I am for improving the human experience;
which includes
> the
> personal choice of being blind, if you so choose to be.
>
>
>
> Robert Leslie Newman
> President- NFB Writers' Division
> Division Website
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> Personal Website-
> http://www.thoughtprovoker.info
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Allison Nastoff
> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 8:48 PM
> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [stylist] seeing with your tongue
>
> Hi Everyone,
> Since this list has been talking about technology that would
> allow the blind to drive, I thought it would be interesting to
> start a discussion on a story I saw on yesterday's episode of
> Good Morning America. The story was about technology being
> developed that projects images on to the tongue using electrical
> signals that the blind can feel, which in a sense allows them to
> "see with their tongue". I hope you don't mind me cross posting
> this since it was discussed on another NFB list, but since it was
> off topic for that list, I thought it would be interesting to
> continue the discussion on this list.
> I also wanted to get your opinions because when I was in sixth
> grade, I participated in a research study for this technology at
> a local college when it was very early in its development. I
> dropped out of the study after the first year, and maybe in the
> years since, the technology has improved. But I remember that
> when I was in the study, the strip that I put on to my tongue
> extended from a large machine which sent the electrical
> stimulation to my tongue. This machine was connected to a camera
> which sent the images to a computer, and a board covered with
> cloth to create a white background also had to be set up behind
> the camera. So the point I am trying to make is that this was
> way too much gear to walk around my kitchen or go rock climbing
> with the way the blind participants did in this segment. But it
> also seemed kind of impractical because it was hard to tell what
> the shapes were, even when it came to braille dots which I read
> expertly with my fingers, and I know I can locate objects around
> the kitchen much faster with my fingers. Don't get me wrong.
> The concept of seeing with your tongue is pretty cool, and I
> understand how it could be useful for people like the man
> featured in this video since he went blind as an adult, but since
> I have been blind all of my life, I wonder if investing in this
> kind of technology makes sense, or if it would be more beneficial
> to invest the resources in teaching people to adapt to their
> blindness with the traditional, and I think more efficient way,
> using your fingers, ears and nose, or at least invest in
> technology that restores sight for real, rather than just coming
> up with some weird inefficient contraption to see with their
> tongue. What do you all think? Is there anyone else on this list
> who has participated in research for this kind of technology? If
> so, what were your feelings about it? I am always interested in
> getting other people's perspectives about innovations like this.
> Here is the link to the story.
> http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/helping-blind-people-tongues-1147
> 7360
> Allison Nastoff
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/newmanrl%40cox.
> net
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>
>
> End of stylist Digest, Vol 76, Issue 47
> ***************************************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
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