[stylist] Addressing echo location

Wed Jun 9 19:32:52 UTC 2010

Hey list,

anyone who uses a cane or dog do use audio cues.  We are taught to rely on sound rather than sight.  I have also noticed since I lost most my vision that I can often tell when an object is in fromt of me or near me.  I believe this is just our other senses kicking in and providing information in a non-visual way.

Echo location is different than a straight forward audio cue though.  Jewel provided a wonderful and detailed description of echo location.  It is a complex and unique phenomanon that I do not fully understand.  I was always under the impression that echo location can be taught, but according to Jewel, it seems more like some quality a blind person possesses.

Anyway, I say all this to explain that echo location is different than audio cues and other ways in which the average blind person finds information.  Structured Discovery and echo location are two ifferent methods.

Bridgit

> From: stylist-request at nfbnet.org
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> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 12:00:09 -0500
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: Introduction of a New Writer (Donna Hill)
> 2. Past Tense Usage Question (Neil Butters)
> 3. Writing Prompt for Anthology (Kerry Thompson)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2010 11:01:38 -0400
> From: Donna Hill <penatwork at epix.net>
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: loristay <loristay at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Introduction of a New Writer
> Message-ID: <4C0E5B52.1000603 at epix.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> I think many of us use echolocation to some degree or other, even if we 
> don't think about it that way. As a person with RP, I never had night 
> vision, but had usable central vision in the day. It wasn't until I was 
> an adult living on my own that I noticed a difference in how I perceived 
> things when walking around the house. At night, I am aware of where 
> things are in a much more profound and direct way. There's a physical 
> sense of openness and obstacles/surroundings, but there's something else 
> going on. It's like there's a strong visual sense interpreting things 
> via a dark light. I'm much more accurate in the dark than in the daytime 
> when, even now with no usable vision, I still have light perception.
> Donna
> 
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> 
> On 6/7/2010 7:55 PM, loristay wrote:
> > I do know David has pretty good "facial vision" and is excellent at interpreting echoes from his cane tip. He sometimes snaps his fingers inside to see what is around him. But as for going without his cane, he won't. 
> >
> > We went to a convention once, and David left his cane home, thinking he could depend on me. But I was new to NFB at the time and didn't know what was going on. I went out with another sighted wife to see the ice follies. I totally forgot he didn't have his cane. He thought he could function without it, and nearly knocked into a waiter wheeling a wedding cake down the hall. 
> >
> > Ever since then, he packs an extra cane when we go to conventions--and I don't leave the sessions any more. Echolocation or not.
> > Lori
> > On Jun 7, 2010, at 7:11:16 PM, "Jewel S."<herekittykat2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > From: "Jewel S."<herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [stylist] Introduction of a New Writer
> > Date: June 7, 2010 7:11:16 PM EDT
> > To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org>
> > Echolocation is a complex phenomenon. What you feel through your cane
> > is kinda like echolocation, but it has more to do with extended touch
> > through the hand and arm. Echolocation is often done with the click of
> > the tongue, a clicker (like those used in clicker training of dogs),
> > or even just footsteps. Ancient monks used a vibrating chant to find
> > their way in underground tunnels where there was no light. Bats use
> > echolocation, and dolphins and whales use a similar phenomenon called
> > sonar.
> >
> > Echolocation is also often called "facial vision" because many who
> > have the ability to use echolocation in navigation as a "feeling" on
> > their face that lets them know what and where certain things are based
> > on how far the echo goes out, how spread out it goes, etc.
> >
> > Imagine this: A boy in California who used echolocation exclusively
> > (he refused to use a white cane) could tell you whether the object in
> > front of him was a car, truck, or van, based on how far the echoing
> > went, how high it went, and such. He could distinguish between trees
> > and people, bushes and trash bins, and many other objects. He knew
> > instantly when he came to a curb (he was an avid roller blader and
> > cyclist), and could tell you how many steps were in front of him and
> > how deep they were. In an experiment, he was asked to tell how big an
> > object was in front of him. Without touching the object, he clicked
> > his way up and down, side to side, around and around the object, and
> > was able to give exact dimensions and even gave a guess as to what it
> > was. And he was right! (it was a half-gallon milk carton). He could
> > distinguish shapes (such as a round versus an octangonal sign), and
> > see odd shapes, such as a soccer net).
> >
> > With echolocation, a person can navigate the world without the use of
> > cane, guide dog, or a sighted guide. Echolocation allows for a
> > different way of seeing and describing objects. A blind person using
> > echolocation would not describe a building as being "a dull red brick
> > building" but rather "a tall, brick building with wooden doors and
> > plastic windows" (the echolocator wouldn't see the colour of the
> > building, but rather the approximate shape and the materials the
> > object is made of). Art in a world of echolocator might be created out
> > of mavious materials in shapes, creating, for example, the "feel" of a
> > car or a person and a dog (which would "feel" differently).
> >
> > But, having not actually learned echolocation, I don't know how brick
> > "feels" in echoes...or how a dog "feels" different from, say, a fur
> > coat on a child...see what I mean?
> >
> > ~Jewel
> >
> > On 6/7/10, loristay<loristay at aol.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> Is echolocation related to being aware of where you are via echoes from the
> >> cane tip? How about from just feeling the presence of something with your
> >> forehead? (That's what my husband does!)
> >> Lori
> >> On Jun 7, 2010, at 12:55:02 PM, "Jewel S."<herekittykat2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> From: "Jewel S."<herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [stylist] Introduction of a New Writer
> >> Date: June 7, 2010 12:55:02 PM EDT
> >> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List"<stylist at nfbnet.org>
> >> Hey Helene,
> >>
> >> Thank you for the belated welcome. I totally understand. I am soooo
> >> very busy lately. I don't recall a group called "Fight It" but that
> >> doesn't mean I wasn't on there...I have a very bad long-term memory;
> >> can't remember last month, let alone years ago. What is the group
> >> about?
> >>
> >> Your book sounds very interesting; I love dragons! When I have the
> >> time, I'll certainly look it up. The story about the blind world is
> >> proving so very difficult to write, because I have never experienced
> >> echolocation personally, nor will most of my writers, so I have to do
> >> a lot of research on the subject before I can really describe it to
> >> the reader. But it is a concept I really love, and I doubt it will
> >> fade into nothingness. I am hoping to talk to Dr. Kiesh in the future
> >> sometime to learn about echolocation from him, as he is one of the
> >> most well-known teachers of the not-well-known sense of location via
> >> clicks.
> >>
> >> ~Jewel
> >>
> >> On 6/5/10, helene ryles<dreamavdb at googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >>> hi jewel,
> >>>
> >>> welcome to the list. sorry it's taken me such a while to welcome you
> >>> ut i am not very active at present. i find your stories really
> >>> interesting. particularly the last one about the blind world where
> >>> sighted people arae differant. i also write fantasy. part of my book
> >>> trials of an honorary dragon can be found in the archieves if you are
> >>> interested enough to dig it out. although i am planning to work on
> >>> it later on. it is set in a country called nazdonia which is run by
> >>> dragons whicho think that humans should be airborne like them. there
> >>> are many disabled characters in my book
> >>>
> >>> anyway i also vaguely remember your name from another list you used to
> >>> subscribe to a few years back called fight it. are you the same jewel
> >>> or have i got you mixed up with someone else.
> >>> helene
> >>>
> >>> On 22/04/2010, James H. "Jim" Canaday M.A. N6YR<n6yr at sunflower.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>>> welcome to our list Jewel.
> >>>> jc
> >>>>
> >>>> At 04:42 PM 4/22/2010, you wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>>> Thank you for the welcome. ~Jewel
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 4/22/10, Judith Bron<jbron at optonline.net> wrote:
> >>>>> 
> >>>>>> Jewel, Your writing sounds wonderful. I think when most of us write,
> >>>>>> our
> >>>>>> own conflicts enter into whatever format we are writing in. Welcome to
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> list, Judith
> >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>> From: "Jewel S."<herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
> >>>>>> To:<stylist at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 3:55 PM
> >>>>>> Subject: [stylist] Introduction of a New Writer
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Some of you likely know me from some of the other listservs...I seem
> >>>>>>> to be everywhere these days, eh? *grin* So, I'll only give a short
> >>>>>>> introduction, and one about what brings me to this listserv.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> My name is Jewel. I am 25 years old, and live in Raleigh, NC. I am a
> >>>>>>> member of the Raleigh chapter of the NFB, as well as the North
> >>>>>>> Carolina Association of Blind Students. I am a research geek, loving
> >>>>>>> to write about things I research about. So, that brings me to why I'm
> >>>>>>> here.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I write many different things. Lately, I've been doing a lot on my
> >>>>>>> blog, Treasure Chest for the Blind (found at
> >>>>>>> <http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com>), a blog about resources for
> >>>>>>> blind people, such as alternate screenreaders like NVDA, sources of
> >>>>>>> e-books, such as NLS' BARD, RFBD, and there will be one soon about
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> Internet Archives, software (games, business tools, home tools, and
> >>>>>>> much more), and anything else I think people will find of use. It's
> >>>>>>> really more of a way to allow me to share with other all the amazing
> >>>>>>> things I have found on the Internet and out in the world, and also a
> >>>>>>> way for me to write often.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Beyond the blog writing, I also write for my local chapter's
> >>>>>>> newsletter. My article each month will be a Member Profile. I have
> >>>>>>> written so far, that was supposed to be in last month's, but was left
> >>>>>>> out, and will be in this month's newsletter. I've just started doing
> >>>>>>> this, and am very much enjoying the phone interview process of
> >>>>>>> learning about the members of my home chapter.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I have also written a lot of poetry. Some of it is crap, but some of
> >>>>>>> it is not half bad. Much of it can be found at poetry.com under
> >>>>>>> "Amber
> >>>>>>> Gaspard," my maiden name. Some of it is quite depressing, poetry
> >>>>>>> written in my childhood, being raised by an emotionally, verbally,
> >>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>> occassionally physically abusive mother. I have written poetry about
> >>>>>>> wanting to destroy a mirror and cut myself with it, about how the
> >>>>>>> tracks on my arms are reminders of my past, and descriptives of the
> >>>>>>> verbal abuse. This was a sort of therapy for myself. Some of my
> >>>>>>> poetry
> >>>>>>> is more upbeat, however, like descriptives of nature much like
> >>>>>>> haikus,
> >>>>>>> and medieval-style poetry about books, reading, and other stuff.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Finally, I have written a few short stories that went nowhere, but
> >>>>>>> have two books that have been slowly developing over time. The first
> >>>>>>> is a fantasy about a half-troll child searching for her past after
> >>>>>>> learning that her mother never knew how she came to be, and her
> >>>>>>> search
> >>>>>>> for herself. She really is searching for herself, trying to find
> >>>>>>> where
> >>>>>>> she fits in between two different worlds (troll and human), neither
> >>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>> which will accept her. The story is sorta a fantasy adopted-child
> >>>>>>> story, and a few friends who were adopted said they can really relate
> >>>>>>> to the story.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The other that has developed over time is a fantasy mystery. Erica is
> >>>>>>> a young girl who has, for as far back as she can remember, had the
> >>>>>>> same dream every night, of an old man at a well. As the story
> >>>>>>> progresses, you learn more about what this dream is (or do you?), and
> >>>>>>> the story is about Erica trying to understand who she is, what this
> >>>>>>> dream means to her life, and how it has shaped her entire being.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The first book has been thus far called Unknown Past, and the second
> >>>>>>> has thus far been called simply "The Well" The first is pure fantasy;
> >>>>>>> however, the second is loosely based (at least at the beginning) on
> >>>>>>> my
> >>>>>>> own life as an abused child and the dream that I often had as a child
> >>>>>>> and my own search for the meaning of the dream.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I have also written a children's book about a rabbit who lives near a
> >>>>>>> farm and decides one day to live on the farm, since the grass is
> >>>>>>> always greener, and quickly learns that he is much better off being
> >>>>>>> what he is, a rabbit, after trying to be a cat, dog, horse, chicken,
> >>>>>>> and other farm animals. It is a story of acceptance of self, at the
> >>>>>>> same time teaching about farm animals.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> One last story that is not developed much at all, but is only an idea
> >>>>>>> is about a world where everyone is blind, where everyone has always
> >>>>>>> been blind, where there is no such ting as humans seeing with eyes
> >>>>>>> like people do in the real world. Instead of vision, people have
> >>>>>>> echo,
> >>>>>>> a form of echolocation that sometimes is seen in children who are
> >>>>>>> born
> >>>>>>> totally blind. But then a sighted child is born, then another, and
> >>>>>>> schools for the echo-impaired (those who see with their eyes, but
> >>>>>>> can't use echolocation) open, and the world slowly tries to help
> >>>>>>> these
> >>>>>>> poor impaired people who have eyes like animals. It is kinda a role
> >>>>>>> reversal that has a subtle message of teaching sighted people what it
> >>>>>>> is like to be a minority as blind people are.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> So, that's my stories and such, and I hope to share my writing, learn
> >>>>>>> from others, and enjoy this list.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Later,
> >>>>>>> ~Jewel
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Writers Division web site:
> >>>>>>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.org
> >>>>>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
> >>>>>>>
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> >>>>> 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>
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> >>>>>> 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 11:46:09 -0400
> From: "Neil Butters" <neil.butters at sympatico.ca>
> To: <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [stylist] Past Tense Usage Question
> Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP1463DA052BE351712648F7E2D60 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> I have a question about the past simple and past perfect tenses.
> 
> I know when a story is told in the past simple, the past perfect is used for flashbacks or anything else that happened previously. But I have read many stories told in the past simple that seem to ignore that rule in flashback paragraphs. Here is an example from The Last Great Clown Hunt, which is a short story written in the past simple.
> 
> I had glimpsed the stilt dancers only once. Billy Boy and I were watching them through a gap in the big top when the shaman caught us. He ran me off; he
> allowed Billy Boy to stay. I still had a hard time picturing Billy Boy as one of them. To me he'd always seemed like a clown wannabe.
> 
> So why is the past perfect used in the first sentence, cne 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 12:53:17 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Kerry Thompson <uinen at earthlink.net>
> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [stylist] Writing Prompt for Anthology
> Message-ID:
> <12344641.1276015997650.JavaMail.root at wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> Hi friends,
> 
> If I have posted the below already, please excuse me. I haven't been feeling well recently, and find myself somewhat confused.
> 
> Chris Kuell suggests the following writing prompt for those who might be interested in writing for the anthology:
> 
> Clear your mind and imagine that you are traveling in a car. Unfortunately, your car breaks down in front of an old house. The house is abandoned, the grass long or maybe covered with snow. Despite the outer disrepair, the inside of the house, aside from being dusty and smelling of time, is relatively intact. The generations and families that once resided there are gone.
> 
> Write a piece of prose or poetry about a holiday that took place in that house. The holiday should be the one closest to your birthday. Try to incorporate as many senses as possible.
> 
> He adds:
> 
> Okay, just please encourage people to be creative, and not to take the prompt literally. Rather, use it as a springboard for your muse. Write something creative in the genre, style and form of your choice. The only elements are house, family, and holiday. I'd also add that if people would like constructive feedback, please say so and encourage members to give it. That way we not only get material for the anthology, but improved material for the anthology.
> 
> Solidarity and Peace,
> Kerry
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
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> 
> End of stylist Digest, Vol 74, Issue 9
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