[stylist] Pet PVS- Correcting fellow writers
Lynda Lambert
llambert at zoominternet.net
Sun Apr 1 03:18:57 UTC 2012
I look forward to hearing a LOT more from you, Paul.
You are a treasure and I am so glad you have been writing about your life as
you have lived it. I agree with Eve, I think I love you, too!
No, I am not familiar with the book - sounds wonderful to me, too.
I worked with amazing writers and thinkers at Geneva College. Though I am
now retired, we still keep in very close touch, have lunch together often,
and stay abreast of what is going on in the various departments. We were
always so excited when we had exceptional students who came from so many
different kinds of life situations. And, so many of us loved working across
disciplines together doing innovative and experimental courses. We would get
together and begin to dream of exciting things we could do together to give
our students a college experience that was so outside the box. I have
always thought I must be the luckiest person in the world to be able to read
such fantastic books and to be able to share them with the students. I used
to say that even if I was never paid for doing this job, I would be there
for free it was so exciting. From their first English comp. classes with
me, we began writing and publishing student work. One prof. friend required
his students to be published during the 15 week course. It was the only way
a student would ever earn an A in his course. No publishing, no A for the
final grade.
Our students had wings and they could fly from the very beginning of their
studies. It is great and daring IDEAS that give us our wings and make us
soar. Daring and exciting ideas. Dangerous ideas. Your life growing up on
the streets has given you insight that no amount of research could give
anyone. That is your story - and it is yours to tell in your own way.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eve Sanchez" <3rdeyeonly at gmail.com>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 1:56 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Pet PVS- Correcting fellow writers
> Have you ever read Piers Anthony. He published a book called What Is Earth
> some twenty- thirty years ago that is an exploration of editing and
> editors. It was originally a book written in the fifties that was severly
> marked in red. When he became an extablished and successful writer he
> revisited the project and used it as a teaching tool. Wonderful insight
> from a true pro. Just a foot note here, I did not know that Reading was
> a real place. I always thought it was just a square on the Monopoly board.
> haha Paul, I spent a lot of times on the streets as well when I was
> young
> and could relate to what you are saying. Some of the lessons I learned
> from
> philosophical homeless drug addicts were some of the most poignant words I
> have eer heard. I look forward to your book being published. Eve
>
> On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Lynda Lambert
> <llambert at zoominternet.net>wrote:
>
>> Are you familiar with the museum in Reading? I spoke there a few years
>> ago
>> - lectured on African American Art and Literature. I used to speak all
>> over
>> PA through the Pennsylvania Humanitis Council and the Pennsylvania
>> Council
>> on the Arts. I absolutely love African American art and literature. I
>> love
>> the diction and the use of language and imagery we find in it.
>>
>> Lynda
>>
>>
>> Lynda Lambert
>> 104 River Road
>> Ellwood City, PA 16117
>>
>> 724 758 4979
>>
>> My Blog:
>> http://www.**walkingbyinnervision.blogspot.**com<http://www.walkingbyinnervision.blogspot.com/>
>> My Website: http://lyndalambert.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "PAUL BAVER" <pebaver at verizon.net>
>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 11:04 AM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Pet PVS- Correcting fellow writers
>>
>>
>> I have a similar circumstance, my very best critic has been a (25-year
>>> old), street smart young man that grew up on the streets of Reading PA
>>> with
>>> a ninth grade education , and is very street smart. I have been
>>> mentoring
>>> him for now going on eleven years, I started writing my book, with all
>>> of
>>> the anger that I could find, along with every expletive, that I could
>>> think
>>> of, as I also grew up on the streets of Reading PA. . This street smart,
>>> young man, which knows how to use every adjective describing anything,
>>> or
>>> everything, told me that if I want to give him a reason to change, or a
>>> reader a reason to change. Then write, in a way that would make him, or
>>> any
>>> reader see that change is possable. He stirnly told me, if you want me
>>> to
>>> see that if I want to make my life better, then show me how to think
>>> better, speak better, and how to respect myself for the changes that
>>> your
>>> book knows is possible, now that's profound to me, and very powerful.
>>> Thanks again Paul E Baver
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynda Lambert" <
>>> llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 9:39 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Pet PVS- Correcting fellow writers
>>>
>>>
>>> Paul there are really great people here and I have benefited even though
>>>> I have not been here for very long. I received a little bit of good
>>>> feedback that challenged me to take another look at the couple of
>>>> things I
>>>> up up. I can see that there are just a few who are giving feedback and
>>>> I
>>>> can see why that is. The more feedback we give and recieve the better
>>>> it is
>>>> for helping us with growth. But, feedback is not the same as ranting or
>>>> bullying a person who has honestly put forth an idea for discussion or
>>>> put
>>>> forth something they have written.
>>>>
>>>> I appreciate honest and thoughtful feedback. Good feedback can often
>>>> come from the most unexpected sources. Never, never think that a
>>>> person
>>>> has to have a degree in writing to be able to give good feedback. My
>>>> best
>>>> proof reader and person to discuss my work with is an auto mechanic and
>>>> welder with no degree in anything but life experiences. That would be
>>>> my
>>>> husband. He has insight and intuition and is one of the most well read
>>>> people I have ever known. He reads stacks of books and is comfortable
>>>> in
>>>> conversations with people of all walks of life.
>>>>
>>>> Writers thrive on challenges, as do all artistic creative people.
>>>> Rejection goes hand in hand with what we do. We very quickly learn that
>>>> when we start putting out work out to the public. It makes us work
>>>> harder
>>>> once we learn that it is for our good and for our growth. We cast our
>>>> work out to the public and we wait to see what comes back to us. What
>>>> comes
>>>> back is what we deal with. It can be an acceptance or a rejection. But
>>>> the
>>>> important thing is that we put it out there in the first place.
>>>> Lynda
>>>>
>>>> We all need feedback. It helps us grow. What we do not ever need
>>>> though
>>>> is to be bullied by someone who apparently gets some twisted sort of
>>>> pleasure from crushing another's work or spirit. That kind of thing
>>>> always
>>>> comes from a place of fear.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lynda Lambert
>>>> 104 River Road
>>>> Ellwood City, PA 16117
>>>>
>>>> 724 758 4979
>>>>
>>>> My Blog:
>>>> http://www.**walkingbyinnervision.blogspot.**com<http://www.walkingbyinnervision.blogspot.com/>
>>>> My Website: http://lyndalambert.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "PAUL BAVER" <pebaver at verizon.net>
>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 8:49 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Pet PVS- Correcting fellow writers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Good morning Linda, this is the encouragement I expected from the day I
>>>>> joined, and I'm glad that I took the chance to voice my opinion.
>>>>> Writing is
>>>>> not only sharing my stories with others, for me it was a personal
>>>>> healing
>>>>> process, to Wright my tragic life story, it has now been three years
>>>>> that
>>>>> I've been working on it, and millions of tears later, it took forty
>>>>> plus
>>>>> years to get over myself. Now that I did get over myself, I'd like to
>>>>> see
>>>>> those people that are still full of themselves, get over it. I these
>>>>> days
>>>>> look for the Sunshine, hearing the beauty of the Birds singing and a
>>>>> day
>>>>> without drama, there's so much love, and beauty, to find, I have no
>>>>> time
>>>>> for anything but positivity in my life. I only learned to use this
>>>>> computer
>>>>> in (2005), and know I should be messaging now with an O-T message in
>>>>> my
>>>>> E-mail. I'll be doing that to the next E-mail that I send to you.
>>>>> Again
>>>>> thank you very much, for your genuine encouragement. Paul E Baver
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynda Lambert" <
>>>>> llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 7:36 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Pet PVS- Correcting fellow writers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So nice to hear that in spite of your very sad experiences here, you
>>>>>> have kept on going with your writing. That is what it is all about.
>>>>>> Yes, we
>>>>>> have been given a good deal of material to write from in the wild
>>>>>> rants we
>>>>>> have been given here. In fact, we could develop a "character" full
>>>>>> blown by
>>>>>> using this material.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And, Paul, when you have a manuscript that is ready for your
>>>>>> publisher
>>>>>> to go over, many eyes will be looking over it and editing it along
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> you. Your job is to do the writing, and the editors will be doing
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> job, as well as a number of others.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul, I am interested in knowing who some of your favorite authors
>>>>>> are. What kinds of things do you read that you enjoy? I think that
>>>>>> reading
>>>>>> the things we love is the best teacher we can have. And, I am a
>>>>>> college
>>>>>> professor, so I can tell you for sure that is what is most
>>>>>> important -
>>>>>> reading and absorbing ideas from other writers. In fact, it's
>>>>>> important to
>>>>>> read across disciplines if you can - include philosophers,
>>>>>> scientists,
>>>>>> artists, and any other books you come across that might be
>>>>>> interesting to
>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am a visual artist and author. Right now, I just finished reading a
>>>>>> book by Pearl S. Buck, who gives insight into China in the first 50
>>>>>> years
>>>>>> of the 20th century in her writing. It has enlightened me so much and
>>>>>> given
>>>>>> me a basis for understanding much more about the China we have today.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> finished that and now I am reading another book written by a
>>>>>> scientist.
>>>>>> This book is on evolution and creation issues, from the scientific
>>>>>> perspective and historical developments that have brought us to where
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> are today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't rule out anything. The most important thing to do at any age is
>>>>>> to read and to be a life-long learner. Our learning begins in a
>>>>>> classroom,
>>>>>> for some of us, but it only begins there. It is not an end in itself.
>>>>>> It is
>>>>>> just a baby step on the path of our lives. What takes place outside
>>>>>> of the
>>>>>> classroom, and long after we leave those classrooms is where our
>>>>>> stories
>>>>>> really take form. Our degrees (I have three of them) are a personal
>>>>>> achievement that we set for ourselves. It is for ourselves because we
>>>>>> chose
>>>>>> to follow a certain path. A college professor has to have a terminal
>>>>>> degree
>>>>>> as well as two others to even get a job interview.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For writing, you certainly do not have to go to collee or have
>>>>>> degrees. Some of the finest writers we can name had no degrees. What
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> have though, is a keen insight into the human condition as they have
>>>>>> experienced it. Your life experiences are what is most important to
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> writing. What you THINK is far more important than knowing a list of
>>>>>> rules
>>>>>> for writing. It is your passion and your enthusiasm that will come
>>>>>> through.
>>>>>> The other things will be edited out or fixed by your editors. Just
>>>>>> keep
>>>>>> reading and writing.
>>>>>> So very NICE to meet you Paul.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lynda Lambert
>>>>>> 104 River Road
>>>>>> Ellwood City, PA 16117
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 724 758 4979
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My Blog:
>>>>>> http://www.**walkingbyinnervision.blogspot.**com<http://www.walkingbyinnervision.blogspot.com/>
>>>>>> My Website: http://lyndalambert.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "PAUL BAVER" <pebaver at verizon.net>
>>>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 11:03 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Pet PVS- Correcting fellow writers
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Linda thank you, I'm sure that out of the hundred or more members
>>>>>>> in this club, there are more then just the two of us, that truly
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> learning, and when a person gets chastised verbally it doesn't make
>>>>>>> for a
>>>>>>> joyful learning experience. The few that go into there ranting, and
>>>>>>> raving,
>>>>>>> I suppose that they must be experts in the Literary World. They must
>>>>>>> have a
>>>>>>> great deal of experience in writing, and must know more about
>>>>>>> Literature,
>>>>>>> then at my age I have time to learn. although in the two years as a
>>>>>>> member
>>>>>>> of this writing group, I haven't yet read any published works by
>>>>>>> those that
>>>>>>> go off on telling me how smart they think they are, and how there
>>>>>>> years of
>>>>>>> Literary expertise has given them the privilege, to give us a verbal
>>>>>>> lashing. I must state that, our club President, Mr. Newman, is very
>>>>>>> helpful, and does bend over backwards, to help, in any way he can.
>>>>>>> As for
>>>>>>> my writing accomplishments, no I haven't had anything published
>>>>>>> either, but
>>>>>>> now that I've grown up, I'm working on a book, about my life, a
>>>>>>> true
>>>>>>> story. I hope to get it published. I must say that I've learned from
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> group, and there some very learned writers, within our membership. I
>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>> do like to write Pomes, but fear, instead of constructive
>>>>>>> critiquing, I
>>>>>>> will be told again to return to school, and become educated , in the
>>>>>>> field
>>>>>>> of writing, and Literature . My book surely has come a long way, and
>>>>>>> yes
>>>>>>> Sir, it has grown to a point that I now am having it looked at by a
>>>>>>> publicist. I hope to hear from her soon. I'm crossing my fingers,
>>>>>>> and my
>>>>>>> toes . Ok Linda, maybe I'll work on that poem about the ranting, and
>>>>>>> raving
>>>>>>> . Sincerely Paul E Baver
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynda Lambert" <
>>>>>>> llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 8:06 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Pet PVS- Correcting fellow writers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Paul, you could make this into a POEM!
>>>>>>>> It could be such a fun poem to do. You have lots of material to
>>>>>>>> draw
>>>>>>>> from.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lynda Lambert
>>>>>>>> 104 River Road
>>>>>>>> Ellwood City, PA 16117
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 724 758 4979
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My Blog:
>>>>>>>> http://www.**walkingbyinnervision.blogspot.**com<http://www.walkingbyinnervision.blogspot.com/>
>>>>>>>> My Website: http://lyndalambert.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "PAUL BAVER"
>>>>>>>> <pebaver at verizon.net
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 4:12 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Pet PVS- Correcting fellow writers
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bravo Linda, I joined about two years ago, and am not, in no way
>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>> expert in this writing process, I to, was lambasted by the rant,
>>>>>>>>> I'm not
>>>>>>>>> sure why the rant is so unhappy, or why the rant seams to be so
>>>>>>>>> full of
>>>>>>>>> bitterness, but the rant is. The rant is the reason why, I really
>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>> comment or address, anything at all. Once the wrath of the rant
>>>>>>>>> comes down
>>>>>>>>> on you, I don't need a second round. I applaud you, and your very
>>>>>>>>> sincere
>>>>>>>>> thoughts. I'll brace myself, for my chastising by the rant now.
>>>>>>>>> Paul E Baver
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynda Lambert" <
>>>>>>>>> llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 8:45 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Pet PVS- Correcting fellow writers
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have to say just a couple of things here. I am very new to this
>>>>>>>>>> list. When I saw there was a Writer's Division I thought how nice
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> would be to be in touch with other writers. Since my sight loss
>>>>>>>>>> four years
>>>>>>>>>> ago, I have very little contact with other writers. I was
>>>>>>>>>> delighted to find
>>>>>>>>>> this list. I would suppose most of you are pleased to be here,
>>>>>>>>>> too.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am a member of another Division for the past 2 or 3 years and
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> is so enjoyable to be a part of it. The people on the list are so
>>>>>>>>>> much fun
>>>>>>>>>> to talk with every day. They have taught me how to do so many
>>>>>>>>>> things that I
>>>>>>>>>> needed help with because I still have so much to learn about
>>>>>>>>>> sight loss and
>>>>>>>>>> how to do many things. I am so grateful to them all for their
>>>>>>>>>> help. In
>>>>>>>>>> return, I try to help others as well, whenever I can. Recently, I
>>>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>>>> taught a couple of classes on that list, and I am scheduled to
>>>>>>>>>> teach
>>>>>>>>>> another one in May after I return from Puerto Rico.
>>>>>>>>>> Every person on that list is valuable, and the person who runs
>>>>>>>>>> that list is such an inspiration to everyone. That list has been
>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>> introduction to NFB, and it has been a God-send in my life. I
>>>>>>>>>> even got to
>>>>>>>>>> go to NFB headquarters a year ago, and met her in person. What a
>>>>>>>>>> treasure
>>>>>>>>>> she is!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> With that positive experience in mind, I joined this Writers
>>>>>>>>>> Division. Here, I have met some people that are the same, smart,
>>>>>>>>>> talented,
>>>>>>>>>> helpful, kind, and encouraging. But then, to be honest, I have
>>>>>>>>>> found the
>>>>>>>>>> polar opposite here, as well. It sure has been an unpleasant
>>>>>>>>>> surprise.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There is a word for it in literature. It is called the "rant."
>>>>>>>>>> When a person writes an opinion, or a comment, I have come to
>>>>>>>>>> realize the Rant will come out loud and clear.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I read that there are over 100 people on this list. I also read
>>>>>>>>>> that only a small portion participate, maybe 15 or so? Don't you
>>>>>>>>>> wonder
>>>>>>>>>> why that is? Who needs or desires to participate in a group when
>>>>>>>>>> just an
>>>>>>>>>> innocent comment brings down thunder and lightening? Is this a
>>>>>>>>>> one person
>>>>>>>>>> operation here? Or, is it a community of writers who have respect
>>>>>>>>>> for one
>>>>>>>>>> another and appreciate the opportunity for exchange? The longer I
>>>>>>>>>> view this
>>>>>>>>>> list the more I see that a bully seems to be runing the show and
>>>>>>>>>> if she
>>>>>>>>>> does not like that person, they are ostracized, through her
>>>>>>>>>> rants.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I see there are some really good qualities on this site. The
>>>>>>>>>> ones
>>>>>>>>>> who take the time to put up a "word" for the day, with
>>>>>>>>>> definitions is such
>>>>>>>>>> a good thing. Others have put up some really nice poems and
>>>>>>>>>> reflections.
>>>>>>>>>> Others offer challenges for writing inspiration. All great
>>>>>>>>>> things. Personal
>>>>>>>>>> stories have been so interesting and given a life to the person
>>>>>>>>>> whom we
>>>>>>>>>> know only by a name on the screen. I am thankful to have met so
>>>>>>>>>> many of you
>>>>>>>>>> here. Everyone is valuable, everyone had something to give,
>>>>>>>>>> everyone is
>>>>>>>>>> worthwhile in my opinion.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I certainly have not been offended by the folks who have offered
>>>>>>>>>> comments on the few things I had put up. One comment really made
>>>>>>>>>> me go to
>>>>>>>>>> the books and figure out something I had not thought about.
>>>>>>>>>> Others have
>>>>>>>>>> given me insight into some other things that I appreciate.
>>>>>>>>>> Another member
>>>>>>>>>> gave one of my poems the best critique I could have imagined and
>>>>>>>>>> showed me
>>>>>>>>>> new insights into my own work. I hope to be as helpful to others
>>>>>>>>>> as I can
>>>>>>>>>> be and I have really enjoyed getting to know some of you off-list
>>>>>>>>>> so much.
>>>>>>>>>> What a great group of folks here. We need everyone - and wouldn't
>>>>>>>>>> it be
>>>>>>>>>> wonderful if more and more of those 100 plus on the list felt
>>>>>>>>>> like sharing
>>>>>>>>>> and communicating, too? I think so.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Lynda Lambert
>>>>>>>>>> 104 River Road
>>>>>>>>>> Ellwood City, PA 16117
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 724 758 4979
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My Blog:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.**walkingbyinnervision.blogspot.**com<http://www.walkingbyinnervision.blogspot.com/>
>>>>>>>>>> My Website: http://lyndalambert.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eve Sanchez" <
>>>>>>>>>> 3rdeyeonly at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 10:10 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Pet PVS- Correcting fellow writers
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Wow Bridgit, Where did I say anything about critiquing or
>>>>>>>>>>> feedback? You
>>>>>>>>>>> are reading things that were never written and by the way; this
>>>>>>>>>>> is the
>>>>>>>>>>> second time you have told me I should not be in this group.
>>>>>>>>>>> Thank
>>>>>>>>>>> you ever
>>>>>>>>>>> so much. Eve
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter
>>>>>>>>>>> <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, prepare to brand me the B since that's what usually
>>>>>>>>>>>> happens, but
>>>>>>>>>>>> here we go. And no, I'm not intending for this to become a
>>>>>>>>>>>> never-ending
>>>>>>>>>>>> thread with no conclusion. I merely throw food out for thought
>>>>>>>>>>>> here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Why belong to a community of writers where we share our work
>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>> time-to-time if we do not want feedback and constructive
>>>>>>>>>>>> criticism? The
>>>>>>>>>>>> greatest writers in the world have and do belong to some type
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> writing
>>>>>>>>>>>> community in which they not only share their work but provide
>>>>>>>>>>>> feedback
>>>>>>>>>>>> and constructive criticism.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> A loving, warm environment is necessary to this process because
>>>>>>>>>>>> no one
>>>>>>>>>>>> is superior to anyone. We all have individual styles, voices,
>>>>>>>>>>>> formats
>>>>>>>>>>>> and processes in which we write. We need to recognize the
>>>>>>>>>>>> difference
>>>>>>>>>>>> between preference and wrong in terms of content, style and
>>>>>>>>>>>> genre. Any
>>>>>>>>>>>> feedback should be done with sincerity and a general
>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciation for
>>>>>>>>>>>> assisting fellow writers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Feedback is crucial however. You don't attack; you don't
>>>>>>>>>>>> condescend; you
>>>>>>>>>>>> don't take a derogatory tone, but you do provide feedback on
>>>>>>>>>>>> what you
>>>>>>>>>>>> enjoy and what you think can use work. When it comes to
>>>>>>>>>>>> established
>>>>>>>>>>>> rules and guidelines, you certainly point these out. Whether
>>>>>>>>>>>> they be
>>>>>>>>>>>> errors made in carelessness or made from lack of knowledge, it
>>>>>>>>>>>> does not
>>>>>>>>>>>> matter. Any writer should want a typo of any kind pointed out
>>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>> it can
>>>>>>>>>>>> be fixed. Sure, many of us will eventually find those mistakes,
>>>>>>>>>>>> but why
>>>>>>>>>>>> not take the assistance when offered? One less thing you have
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Stephen King does not write a novel then turn it over an have
>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>> published. Before he submits it, he has a group of trusted
>>>>>>>>>>>> writing
>>>>>>>>>>>> friends and editor who pour through a manuscript with him,
>>>>>>>>>>>> pointing out
>>>>>>>>>>>> the weak spots along with any grammatical and structural
>>>>>>>>>>>> errors.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Most
>>>>>>>>>>>> people are aware that C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien were
>>>>>>>>>>>> colleagues
>>>>>>>>>>>> who belonged to a group of writers who provided feedback for
>>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>>> another. This is why Lewis an Tolkien often seem similar
>>>>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>> gave constructive feedback to each other, often incorporating
>>>>>>>>>>>> ideas
>>>>>>>>>>>> suggested by the other.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> There's nothing wrong with giving this feedback to each other,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and no
>>>>>>>>>>>> one is affecting a superior attitude to do so. If I say your
>>>>>>>>>>>> writing is
>>>>>>>>>>>> ridiculous and not worth my time, this is wrong and not the
>>>>>>>>>>>> type
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> feedback anyone should provide. If I say, however, I enjoyed
>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>> section, but I feel character A does not have enough depth, or
>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>> your use of dialogue, but be careful of where you place
>>>>>>>>>>>> punctuation with
>>>>>>>>>>>> quotation marks, this is constructive criticism and very
>>>>>>>>>>>> beneficial and
>>>>>>>>>>>> helpful to any writer. If I make comments such as these, it's
>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>> because I think I know everything, or that I'm of a superior
>>>>>>>>>>>> intellect
>>>>>>>>>>>> than you, or a better writer than you, it's simply because I
>>>>>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>>>>> potential and want to assist you in bringing out all the best
>>>>>>>>>>>> aspects of
>>>>>>>>>>>> your writing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In return, I expect similar feedback. Especially in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> beginning stages
>>>>>>>>>>>> with first drafts, we all need feedback. If I want to do my
>>>>>>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>>>>>>> work, I
>>>>>>>>>>>> need a finger on the pulse of those reading it. Audience
>>>>>>>>>>>> feedback is the
>>>>>>>>>>>> only true way in which to learn what works and what doesn't in
>>>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>> writing. It's great when you say you enjoy my writing and it's
>>>>>>>>>>>> good, but
>>>>>>>>>>>> this doesn't tell me much, or help me when revising. In short,
>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't help make me a better writer; I just fatten up on the
>>>>>>>>>>>> praise not
>>>>>>>>>>>> always aware of where I need to concentrate my revising and
>>>>>>>>>>>> editing
>>>>>>>>>>>> efforts. This type of process is not contrary to a warm, loving
>>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>>> generous atmosphere. As the saying goes, a true friend is
>>>>>>>>>>>> honest, and I
>>>>>>>>>>>> think a similar comment can be said for writers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To say a place like Stylist should only be an outlet in which
>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>> sit
>>>>>>>>>>>> back and just enjoy each others work is not giving an outlet
>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>> Stylist all the possibilities it can be. After material is
>>>>>>>>>>>> published,
>>>>>>>>>>>> then I want to sit back and enjoy it. Before, whether it be my
>>>>>>>>>>>> own work
>>>>>>>>>>>> or others, I want to get my hands dirty, ironing and polishing,
>>>>>>>>>>>> bringing
>>>>>>>>>>>> all the potential to the surface.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> My essay published in Breath and Shadow's winter issue is a
>>>>>>>>>>>> piece that
>>>>>>>>>>>> I've worked on for about four years. It has gone through rounds
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> revision including several workshops, and I had posted sections
>>>>>>>>>>>> of it on
>>>>>>>>>>>> Stylist to get feedback from those who cared to do so. What is
>>>>>>>>>>>> in B and
>>>>>>>>>>>> S (ha-ha, just realized the initials here, grin) is something
>>>>>>>>>>>> that not
>>>>>>>>>>>> only took time, as well as the result of my own creativity and
>>>>>>>>>>>> editing,
>>>>>>>>>>>> but of the feedback from others. And I will still probably
>>>>>>>>>>>> continue to
>>>>>>>>>>>> revise it over time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So I think it unfair to us as writers and to the intention of
>>>>>>>>>>>> Stylist to
>>>>>>>>>>>> say it's wrong or childish or the result of superior attitudes
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> provide feedback when we post work here. Again, if you don't
>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>> feedback from your peers, or can't handle it, a writing
>>>>>>>>>>>> community of any
>>>>>>>>>>>> kind is not the place for you. And editors, publishers and
>>>>>>>>>>>> authors
>>>>>>>>>>>> published numerous times are not the only "experts" who can
>>>>>>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>>>>>>> constructive feedback. Our writing peers can have just as much
>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge
>>>>>>>>>>>> and experience, and as I learned in university, ultimately it's
>>>>>>>>>>>> up to
>>>>>>>>>>>> your intended audience who often are not writers or have any
>>>>>>>>>>>> writing
>>>>>>>>>>>> experience/knowledge who determine the success of any writer.
>>>>>>>>>>>> So
>>>>>>>>>>>> why not
>>>>>>>>>>>> take the opportunity to receive feedback from your peers? In
>>>>>>>>>>>> fact, I
>>>>>>>>>>>> don't see those of us proving such feedback as being superior,
>>>>>>>>>>>> but the
>>>>>>>>>>>> opposite; if you don't want feedback, it could be interpreted
>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking yourself too superior to accept feedback from anyone
>>>>>>>>>>>> else. As
>>>>>>>>>>>> always, it's a matter of perspective.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bridgit Kuenning-Pollpeter
>>>>>>>>>>>> Read my blog at:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://blogs.livewellnebraska.**com/author/bpollpeter/<http://blogs.livewellnebraska.com/author/bpollpeter/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "History is not what happened; history is what was written
>>>>>>>>>>>> down."
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Expected One- Kathleen McGowan
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Writers Division web site:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfb-writers-**division.net<http://www.nfb-writers-division.net/><
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfb-writers-**division.org/<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>> stylist:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/stylist_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>>>>>>>> 3rdeyeonly%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/3rdeyeonly%40gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Writers Division web site:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfb-writers-**division.net<http://www.nfb-writers-division.net/><
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfb-writers-**division.org/<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>> for stylist:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/stylist_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>>>>>>> llambert%40zoominternet.net<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>>>> Writers Division web site:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfb-writers-**division.net<http://www.nfb-writers-division.net/><
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfb-writers-**division.org/<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for stylist:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/stylist_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>>>>>> pebaver%40verizon.net<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/pebaver%40verizon.net>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>>> Writers Division web site:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfb-writers-**division.net<http://www.nfb-writers-division.net/><
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfb-writers-**division.org/<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for stylist:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/stylist_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>>>>> llambert%40zoominternet.net<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>> Writers Division web site:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfb-writers-**division.net<http://www.nfb-writers-division.net/><
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfb-writers-**division.org/<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for stylist:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/stylist_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>>>> pebaver%40verizon.net<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/pebaver%40verizon.net>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>> Writers Division web site:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfb-writers-**division.net<http://www.nfb-writers-division.net/><
>>>>>>> http://www.nfb-writers-**division.org/<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> stylist:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/stylist_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>>> llambert%40zoominternet.net<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>> Writers Division web site:
>>>>>> http://www.nfb-writers-**division.net<http://www.nfb-writers-division.net/><
>>>>>> http://www.nfb-writers-**division.org/<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> stylist:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/stylist_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>> pebaver%40verizon.net<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/pebaver%40verizon.net>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site:
>>>>> http://www.nfb-writers-**division.net<http://www.nfb-writers-division.net/><
>>>>> http://www.nfb-writers-**division.org/<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org>
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> stylist:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/stylist_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>> llambert%40zoominternet.net<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>> Writers Division web site:
>>>> http://www.nfb-writers-**division.net<http://www.nfb-writers-division.net/><
>>>> http://www.nfb-writers-**division.org/<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org>
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> stylist:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/stylist_nfbnet.org/**
>>>> pebaver%40verizon.net<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/pebaver%40verizon.net>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> Writers Division web site:
>>> http://www.nfb-writers-**division.net<http://www.nfb-writers-division.net/><
>>> http://www.nfb-writers-**division.org/<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>> >
>>>
>>> stylist mailing list
>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org>
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> stylist:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/stylist_nfbnet.org/**
>>> llambert%40zoominternet.net<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Writers Division web site:
>> http://www.nfb-writers-**division.net<http://www.nfb-writers-division.net/><
>> http://www.nfb-writers-**division.org/<http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>> >
>>
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/stylist_nfbnet.org/**
>> 3rdeyeonly%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/3rdeyeonly%40gmail.com>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site:
> http://www.nfb-writers-division.net <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet.net
>
>
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